Forums » Suggestions
Useful Missiles (balance tweak request)
This is a suggestion based on about of week of playing with the S class rockets and missiles. Damage aside, I have no qualms with rockets. Missiles, on the other hand, are outright useless. The sole exception being the Gemini.
Why do the Gemini fare better? Simply put, they actually hit thier target.
Actually, they don't, but they get close enough (10m). And, as they have great agility, they get "close enogh" fairly easy even under less than desirable circumstances.
On the other hand, the Yellow Jacket and Firefly missiles are a waste of credits. They are very impressive to look at, but thier means of detonation and short life span mean that looking impressive is about all they do. Even when they appear to hit, they don't explode. It proves the addage that close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.
So here is my proposal:
Remove all contact detonations (S and L missiles), and replace with 10m proximity detonation. This appears to be the reason why the Gemini work and the others don't moreso than the agility factor. The missile's agility probably has more bearing on it being able to compensate for the targets motion (i.e. dodge).
If this change should unbalance things, it's easy to revert.
Developers, please consider this change. Targets should have to try and evade these "homing" weapons instead of sitting in awe that someone was dumb enough to try and actually use them.
Why do the Gemini fare better? Simply put, they actually hit thier target.
Actually, they don't, but they get close enough (10m). And, as they have great agility, they get "close enogh" fairly easy even under less than desirable circumstances.
On the other hand, the Yellow Jacket and Firefly missiles are a waste of credits. They are very impressive to look at, but thier means of detonation and short life span mean that looking impressive is about all they do. Even when they appear to hit, they don't explode. It proves the addage that close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.
So here is my proposal:
Remove all contact detonations (S and L missiles), and replace with 10m proximity detonation. This appears to be the reason why the Gemini work and the others don't moreso than the agility factor. The missile's agility probably has more bearing on it being able to compensate for the targets motion (i.e. dodge).
If this change should unbalance things, it's easy to revert.
Developers, please consider this change. Targets should have to try and evade these "homing" weapons instead of sitting in awe that someone was dumb enough to try and actually use them.
Why should targets have to go to more work to evade these? they're fire and forget weps.
Proximity? that will make them better than unguided rockets.
Proximity? that will make them better than unguided rockets.
Im gonna have to agree with shape here. I think missiles have found a pretty good middleground. I still get caught off-guard sometimes and get toasted by a salvo of swarms. Either way, its a lot better than it used to be. /me shivers remembering the missiles of the last beta.
You've gotta admit he's got a point though... I think giving all missiles (except stingrays, those are good for bombing the frigate) at least a 10m prox is fair enough.
He's not even asking for an agility, speed, or tracking AI boost.
And you can't deny that yellowjackets and fireflies really are just a waste of credits. If anyone ever tries to use one of those on me, my first thought is "poor sap"
He's not even asking for an agility, speed, or tracking AI boost.
And you can't deny that yellowjackets and fireflies really are just a waste of credits. If anyone ever tries to use one of those on me, my first thought is "poor sap"
Also, pardon the absolute terminology, why are chaos swarms so good and all other missiles complete crap? You don't hear people complain about the chaos swarms, and a small prox detonation wouldnt even begin to compate yellowjackets and fireflies to swarms. In fact, it would make the damage they do a little weaker because of the distance.
Why should guns damage me just because thier projectiles impact with my hull?
Because if you have a target in your sights, you should expect that unless it evades, the weapon you fire should reasonably be able hit it. This is not the case with contact detonation "homing" weapons. Unless the target is stationary or very very large, even a moderate rate on a predicatable path is sufficient to avoid these "homing" weapons. To use the term "more work" implies that it requires some effort to begin with.
My suggestion only affects the YellowJacket, FireFly, and StingRay missiles. All other missiles have a proximity detonation already and appear to be in use by a at least a few people.
I think it should be applied to the StingRay as well. Mostly beacause a) it shouldn't make a bit of differnce against a target as big as the frigate, b) this is the only L sized weapon newbies can use starting out, and the resulting increas in "accuracy" will lead to less frustration, confussion, and cost for those starting out.
And Ghost, swarms have proximity detonation of 15m (Locust) and 20m (Chaos). Have someone shoot at you with YellowJackets and see if they ever catch you off guard. Or better yet, fly at the YellowJacket and see what happens.
Because if you have a target in your sights, you should expect that unless it evades, the weapon you fire should reasonably be able hit it. This is not the case with contact detonation "homing" weapons. Unless the target is stationary or very very large, even a moderate rate on a predicatable path is sufficient to avoid these "homing" weapons. To use the term "more work" implies that it requires some effort to begin with.
My suggestion only affects the YellowJacket, FireFly, and StingRay missiles. All other missiles have a proximity detonation already and appear to be in use by a at least a few people.
I think it should be applied to the StingRay as well. Mostly beacause a) it shouldn't make a bit of differnce against a target as big as the frigate, b) this is the only L sized weapon newbies can use starting out, and the resulting increas in "accuracy" will lead to less frustration, confussion, and cost for those starting out.
And Ghost, swarms have proximity detonation of 15m (Locust) and 20m (Chaos). Have someone shoot at you with YellowJackets and see if they ever catch you off guard. Or better yet, fly at the YellowJacket and see what happens.
*cough! cough! hack! hack!* oh man... sorry.. just-- *cough http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080 cough*
Agreed, MDX, but if stingrays were given a prox detonation they would be far too powerful for level 0 imho. Why not give newbies the basic gatling cannon instead of stingrays, and bump stingrays with a prox radius up a few levels.
Actually...
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8321
Actually...
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8321
Ahem, read crip's post on missiles, it suggests making them into a more skill-based wep, so that such "proximity" detonations won't be necessary (I'll repost it):
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
Shape... didn't you see that I posted this link, http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080 on my last post? :)
Back on topic, I wouldn't mind the 10m proximity. Also, missiles aren't supposed to be of ANY use in the world of PvP. You just can't make fire-and-forget weapons have any impact on skill based activities. No. Just plain no. I really like the niches missiles fit in right now. Botting, and some long range capital ship destruction/mutulation. That's about it, and that's what it should stay in my opinion.
so you bumped my topic, which is regarding missiles for PvP... why?... I don't see yellowjackets destroying capital ships. And I don't know if you've tried, but missiles are crappy botting weapons. Absolutely crappy. Using stingrays to get heavy experience is like pulling teeth.
No, I have tried, and when I was new, Stingrays were how I got heavy weapons. I hit 12 or 13 of my 14 missile payload. And on Valent A47 assaults, swarms are one-shot-kills, meaning that you can kill about every 20 seconds, and if you find a good station, it takes you under 90 seconds to reload. That's 2x +350/+250/+250 and 10x +350 heavy weapons, all in five minutes.