Forums » Suggestions
Someone mentioned the channel system and how it confuses new players, I think there is a simply short solution to that and the big actual fix could come later.
For now all that needs to be done is have the tutorial walk them through the different channels quickly and point out the major ones and also how to privately com someone
To fix the tutorial, I really do believe ,as im sure everyelse here does, that the tutorial needs to be more interactive. For example instead of just explaining the menus in text and telling them to click on whatever option , have that option or tab be opened automatically and be explained from their. Eventually minor tweaks like this wont be enough to solve the problem, sometime in the future we will need voice actors if only a few to add some dialouge into the tutorial and the game, but for right now all vendetta really needs is to tweak the current system.
nuf said
For now all that needs to be done is have the tutorial walk them through the different channels quickly and point out the major ones and also how to privately com someone
To fix the tutorial, I really do believe ,as im sure everyelse here does, that the tutorial needs to be more interactive. For example instead of just explaining the menus in text and telling them to click on whatever option , have that option or tab be opened automatically and be explained from their. Eventually minor tweaks like this wont be enough to solve the problem, sometime in the future we will need voice actors if only a few to add some dialouge into the tutorial and the game, but for right now all vendetta really needs is to tweak the current system.
nuf said
Fair enough, but in all probability when the new mission framework is finished all the missions will be ported over to it. That includes the tutorial. So why not improve what you can while you're at it?
Regarding the interactivity (if I get your meaning) I really am hoping the new UI will have nice, pretty alerts. (The current UI already has a limited alert system -- for example, your chat tab will turn red if chat happens when you're on the mission tab, and vice versa.) With a good alert system, it should be possible to script the tutorial to visually and/or audially draw newbies' attention to the widgets that require their attention.
Regarding the interactivity (if I get your meaning) I really am hoping the new UI will have nice, pretty alerts. (The current UI already has a limited alert system -- for example, your chat tab will turn red if chat happens when you're on the mission tab, and vice versa.) With a good alert system, it should be possible to script the tutorial to visually and/or audially draw newbies' attention to the widgets that require their attention.
I wounder if the 5 commonly used channels could be annotated so new users know where they are. I often forget which channel is for which convoy so I wouldn't mind a reminder either.
instead of
1 <sarahanne> Hello! it would be
1[HELP] <sarahanne> Hello!
11[NATION]
100[GENERAL]
201[ITANI CONVOY]
202[SERCO CONVOY]
Players could have these channels available to them in the station UI in a set communication tab.
In this tab you would have the option on clicking on join or leave buttons for the 5 channels and a click box to select the acitve channel. This might help new players move around the chat system while they are on the tutorial. Once they subscribe and have friends, you can tell them how to set up "private" channels via the /join and /leave commands. (or add it as a mini tutorial only available to subscribers)
If the UI is added it also opens up the possibility of adding the "claimed" channels like the EnB recruitment channel or the Spanish languge channel to the clickable list.
instead of
1 <sarahanne> Hello! it would be
1[HELP] <sarahanne> Hello!
11[NATION]
100[GENERAL]
201[ITANI CONVOY]
202[SERCO CONVOY]
Players could have these channels available to them in the station UI in a set communication tab.
In this tab you would have the option on clicking on join or leave buttons for the 5 channels and a click box to select the acitve channel. This might help new players move around the chat system while they are on the tutorial. Once they subscribe and have friends, you can tell them how to set up "private" channels via the /join and /leave commands. (or add it as a mini tutorial only available to subscribers)
If the UI is added it also opens up the possibility of adding the "claimed" channels like the EnB recruitment channel or the Spanish languge channel to the clickable list.
Hi everyone. Welcome, Machiavelli, and thanks for the input. The tutorial is definitely in need of improvement.
It's been my intention that, as part of the new UI redux, to change how the new user is introduced to the game. Basically a restructuring of everything from the initial character creation and nation selection, all the way through their introduction to the station menu, which areas of space are "safe" and so on, finally leading into the tutorial mission. Of course, this is still all in my head right now, so I need to write it down sometime soon and get Ray to actually.. make it. Moving right along..
The interactivity method for them missions in general is also something I'm revisiting. Not that there's anything wrong with the existing "chat channel" type interface, or that it's necessary to get rid of it, but it is somewhat unintuitive for new users. But now that more advanced types of interfaces are available to us, and since we're probably going to redo all the missions anyhow, I'm revisiting the entire interface in general. This may not make the initial UI release, but the first release of the UI will only be a first step towards many of the changes we want to make as the gameplay becomes available (capital ships, whatever).
The whole missions-contributed-by-users thing is actually not very farfetched. We've had some delays on that. The mission editor we spent so much time on is.. cool, but not really that useful as of yet (although 90% of the work on that ended up going into the new UI, so it was time well spent). We're hoping to get a "mission developer" framework going at some point, which will let certain permitted users (initially the guides, and then any responsible user who requests access) build and test missions in a "test" universe. The missions will most likely be a fixed set of templates, a-la "Go Here And Do" where "here" is anywhere and "Do" is everything from killing something to getting some item to whatever. So, the missions won't be terribly complex, but there's still a lot of potential for creating interesting gameplay. Theoretically the templates would be chainable into longer multi-stage missions, but.. we'll see. Any missions that were made functional would probably have to be personally approved by me before they went into the game, double checked for gameplay, storyline consistency, and so on.
Anyway, that sort of development, while I do emphasize the critical importance we place on it (getting more missions, and creating a situation where our so-cool-and-helpful userbase can actually Help Out).. it's going to be at least a month, maybe more. There's just too much stuff torn apart right now. Deliverator being redone and added onto in major ways, the UI in a half-working state, and so on. So.. Soon(tm). Yay.
So, please do keep throwing together new mission ideas, even writing out the content for them. We Will Create the stuff to use them. It's just been a longer road than expected (seemingly, like everything about building this game ;).
It's been my intention that, as part of the new UI redux, to change how the new user is introduced to the game. Basically a restructuring of everything from the initial character creation and nation selection, all the way through their introduction to the station menu, which areas of space are "safe" and so on, finally leading into the tutorial mission. Of course, this is still all in my head right now, so I need to write it down sometime soon and get Ray to actually.. make it. Moving right along..
The interactivity method for them missions in general is also something I'm revisiting. Not that there's anything wrong with the existing "chat channel" type interface, or that it's necessary to get rid of it, but it is somewhat unintuitive for new users. But now that more advanced types of interfaces are available to us, and since we're probably going to redo all the missions anyhow, I'm revisiting the entire interface in general. This may not make the initial UI release, but the first release of the UI will only be a first step towards many of the changes we want to make as the gameplay becomes available (capital ships, whatever).
The whole missions-contributed-by-users thing is actually not very farfetched. We've had some delays on that. The mission editor we spent so much time on is.. cool, but not really that useful as of yet (although 90% of the work on that ended up going into the new UI, so it was time well spent). We're hoping to get a "mission developer" framework going at some point, which will let certain permitted users (initially the guides, and then any responsible user who requests access) build and test missions in a "test" universe. The missions will most likely be a fixed set of templates, a-la "Go Here And Do" where "here" is anywhere and "Do" is everything from killing something to getting some item to whatever. So, the missions won't be terribly complex, but there's still a lot of potential for creating interesting gameplay. Theoretically the templates would be chainable into longer multi-stage missions, but.. we'll see. Any missions that were made functional would probably have to be personally approved by me before they went into the game, double checked for gameplay, storyline consistency, and so on.
Anyway, that sort of development, while I do emphasize the critical importance we place on it (getting more missions, and creating a situation where our so-cool-and-helpful userbase can actually Help Out).. it's going to be at least a month, maybe more. There's just too much stuff torn apart right now. Deliverator being redone and added onto in major ways, the UI in a half-working state, and so on. So.. Soon(tm). Yay.
So, please do keep throwing together new mission ideas, even writing out the content for them. We Will Create the stuff to use them. It's just been a longer road than expected (seemingly, like everything about building this game ;).
Yeah, validation. That part's tricky. In years past, when I was working on MUDs, I kept trying to come up with a sandbox that would let players write their own quests. Turned out to be a real tough nut to crack.
Well, at any rate, "player created missions" is really just as successful (at least for my part) if anything we manage to come up with proves useful or inspirational.
Well, at any rate, "player created missions" is really just as successful (at least for my part) if anything we manage to come up with proves useful or inspirational.
Guys here is an e-mail. I have a passing acquaintance with Patrick Stewart, from Star Trek the Next Generation. I told him about Vendetta and he said it sounded great. He was really excited when I told him about us perhaps writing our own missions. You see, he is a writer himself and he sent me this. It has a few great ideas in it. See for yourself.
"I've got an idea.
You've seen me in X-men right? The character I play, Professor Frances Xavier, has the power to move things with his mind.
But what if an ordinary person in vendetta had a special weapon that could do the same thing?
Say for example you met this hot babe in Sedina B8. You could make all her clothes jump 5 feet to the left. And then she's trying to cover up, but by that time, youve seen everything.
And then lets say you shoot a station guard. They try to shoot back. But you use your beam and suddenly their pants fall off. And they are trying to cover up. But you've seen everything.
Then another mission could be to go rescue some POWs. And you have them in your escape ship. And they are in the back and their clothes have rotted off. And two of them are kissing. And you have a mirror, and you can see everything!
Let me know how it goes
-Patrick
"
(PS this is all stolen straight from Ricky Gervais' TV show)
"I've got an idea.
You've seen me in X-men right? The character I play, Professor Frances Xavier, has the power to move things with his mind.
But what if an ordinary person in vendetta had a special weapon that could do the same thing?
Say for example you met this hot babe in Sedina B8. You could make all her clothes jump 5 feet to the left. And then she's trying to cover up, but by that time, youve seen everything.
And then lets say you shoot a station guard. They try to shoot back. But you use your beam and suddenly their pants fall off. And they are trying to cover up. But you've seen everything.
Then another mission could be to go rescue some POWs. And you have them in your escape ship. And they are in the back and their clothes have rotted off. And two of them are kissing. And you have a mirror, and you can see everything!
Let me know how it goes
-Patrick
"
(PS this is all stolen straight from Ricky Gervais' TV show)
I'm not offended, I'm mostly confused.
it was a joke. I think its about time you add in /ignore for the forms
=D
=D
I am still going to post more missions, in the hope that they'll be useful. I have some more written out, but I'm going to post them as an external link rather than on the forums. Plus I just got snowed with work so I need to design an application note for the waste water processing industry first :)
wylfing: in your rogue ship mission what happens if the Akanese ship kills you? You lose, start over, and the Akanese ship leaves anyway?
I hadn't thought about it too strenously, but my idea was that it would still be in the same sector if (in the RARE circumstance) the player got blown up, so that they could warp back with a new ship and keep fighting. I would imagine it's best to have a static situation in this case. It's not supposed to be a challenging fight, but in the case the player dies I should expect he could come back to the sector and pick up where he left off. Otherwise I image many players will get discouraged.
Now, the thing is still frought with problems in a certain sense. E.g., what happens if a level 10 player warps in a destroys both of them? We're almost talking about instanced sectors here, if we want to truly solve things. Without instancing, I'd say every time the player with the mission warps into the sector desginated by the mission (barring queens or other major disturbances) there should be a "rogue ship" waiting there. It may have to warp in, if someone disposed of it earlier, but it should be present until the player interacts with it, or else takes another mission, in which case the thing exists for a short time then expires.
Hopefully I answered? (I can't tell if you were simply discouraging me from writing simplistic mission scenarios or what.)
Now, the thing is still frought with problems in a certain sense. E.g., what happens if a level 10 player warps in a destroys both of them? We're almost talking about instanced sectors here, if we want to truly solve things. Without instancing, I'd say every time the player with the mission warps into the sector desginated by the mission (barring queens or other major disturbances) there should be a "rogue ship" waiting there. It may have to warp in, if someone disposed of it earlier, but it should be present until the player interacts with it, or else takes another mission, in which case the thing exists for a short time then expires.
Hopefully I answered? (I can't tell if you were simply discouraging me from writing simplistic mission scenarios or what.)
Yeah, makes sense. No, I wasn't trying to discourage you; I was trying to encourage you to come up with contingincies. The tutorial sequence sounds great so far. We definitely need more stuff like that.
I keep getting snowed with work every time I sit down to type this stuff up. I wanted to do this with proper formatting so that all the mission bits could be seen, but rather than wait for some magical future time when I have lots of hours to burn I'll just do what I can when I can. Apologies for errors below as I'm writing this as fast as I can :)
So, point #1 - I think that "Rogue Ship" mission needs to be dropped anyway, because once I figured out what the story was it didn't make sense anymore.
Point #2 - Here is the plot device that I invented while I was doing 30 hours of driving over the Thanksgiving holiday:
There are two Itani, a man and a woman named Orenn and Ysel [I just made those names up this second, suggestions welcome] who were to be married. This was in most ways an arranged pairing between the families, moreso on the part of Orenn's family, who pushed hard for it. Ysel's family had considerable social standing, with many respected monks and honored abbots, and a number of extremely successful business leaders as well. They were close to the pure Itani ideal. Not surprisingly, there were rumormongers who said that Orenn's family was in this for a reason.
So the marriage was arranged, but during their long engagement the two did begin to love each other.
Mere weeks from the marriage date, a messenger delivered evidence to Ysel and her two brothers that Orenn's family had ancient ties to the Order of Akan. At first the three siblings treated the news rationally. They sent investigators to verify elements of the story. They advanced theories to each other regarding motives. Over the course of a few days it became clear that the news was true. Ysel began to believe that Orenn and his family had been using the situation solely for the advantage of the Order (this on the heels of new, perplexing movements by the Order). She grew at first piqued, then by degrees angry, and finally seething. In fact, Ysel became obsessed with the idea of "teaching them a lesson."
For his part, Orenn was only dimly aware of his family's ancient ties -- stories told by grandfathers and grandmothers, like bits of fairy tail and dream, nothing real. He had felt compelled by his family to go through with an arranged marriage, most recent of a long list of situations where he was controlled by his family. Over time he did begin to love his fiancee, however, which surprised him, and he even started hoping and planning for the future.
Out of nowhere, Ysel broke the engagement and embarked on a campaign against him and his family. Most of what assets they had were frozen or instantly devalued. Harsh stories circulated, painting Orenn and his kin in a frightful light. Although he didn't understand why this had happened, and he was immensely wounded, he recognized well enough the feeling of an irresistable force compelling him to do what he did not want to do. In the months following the sudden break-up he found himself becoming what he was accused of being. In the face of the furious attack from Ysel -- and as days turned into weeks, her family -- Orenn's family (it seemed to him) was as transformed as himself. Ways long dormant were awakening.
Beneath the role he watched himself play, Orenn still wished to set things right again with Ysel, and so he is again torn between what he does and what he wants to do.
Point #3 - The bits that make this work:
1. The pure Itani wants revenge, and the Akan wants to heal the wounds. This is of course the reverse of what happens in the larger sense, and creates pain for anyone involved (including the main characters, who see themselves doing things that go against their philosophies of the universe).
2. Ysel has a deep hurt that drives her on.
3. Orenn has a deep hurt that drives him on.
4. It's a mystery who the messenger was who informed Ysel about Orenn's family, and what his (her?!) motive was.
5. It's a mystery whether Orenn's family actually DID arrange everything as part of a bigger plan.
This seems to me like fertile ground for all kinds of story-based missions. I am still cogitating on exactly what kind of missions would be best (and how close a player should be to the story), but I have some ideas that I will post when I get more time.
So, point #1 - I think that "Rogue Ship" mission needs to be dropped anyway, because once I figured out what the story was it didn't make sense anymore.
Point #2 - Here is the plot device that I invented while I was doing 30 hours of driving over the Thanksgiving holiday:
There are two Itani, a man and a woman named Orenn and Ysel [I just made those names up this second, suggestions welcome] who were to be married. This was in most ways an arranged pairing between the families, moreso on the part of Orenn's family, who pushed hard for it. Ysel's family had considerable social standing, with many respected monks and honored abbots, and a number of extremely successful business leaders as well. They were close to the pure Itani ideal. Not surprisingly, there were rumormongers who said that Orenn's family was in this for a reason.
So the marriage was arranged, but during their long engagement the two did begin to love each other.
Mere weeks from the marriage date, a messenger delivered evidence to Ysel and her two brothers that Orenn's family had ancient ties to the Order of Akan. At first the three siblings treated the news rationally. They sent investigators to verify elements of the story. They advanced theories to each other regarding motives. Over the course of a few days it became clear that the news was true. Ysel began to believe that Orenn and his family had been using the situation solely for the advantage of the Order (this on the heels of new, perplexing movements by the Order). She grew at first piqued, then by degrees angry, and finally seething. In fact, Ysel became obsessed with the idea of "teaching them a lesson."
For his part, Orenn was only dimly aware of his family's ancient ties -- stories told by grandfathers and grandmothers, like bits of fairy tail and dream, nothing real. He had felt compelled by his family to go through with an arranged marriage, most recent of a long list of situations where he was controlled by his family. Over time he did begin to love his fiancee, however, which surprised him, and he even started hoping and planning for the future.
Out of nowhere, Ysel broke the engagement and embarked on a campaign against him and his family. Most of what assets they had were frozen or instantly devalued. Harsh stories circulated, painting Orenn and his kin in a frightful light. Although he didn't understand why this had happened, and he was immensely wounded, he recognized well enough the feeling of an irresistable force compelling him to do what he did not want to do. In the months following the sudden break-up he found himself becoming what he was accused of being. In the face of the furious attack from Ysel -- and as days turned into weeks, her family -- Orenn's family (it seemed to him) was as transformed as himself. Ways long dormant were awakening.
Beneath the role he watched himself play, Orenn still wished to set things right again with Ysel, and so he is again torn between what he does and what he wants to do.
Point #3 - The bits that make this work:
1. The pure Itani wants revenge, and the Akan wants to heal the wounds. This is of course the reverse of what happens in the larger sense, and creates pain for anyone involved (including the main characters, who see themselves doing things that go against their philosophies of the universe).
2. Ysel has a deep hurt that drives her on.
3. Orenn has a deep hurt that drives him on.
4. It's a mystery who the messenger was who informed Ysel about Orenn's family, and what his (her?!) motive was.
5. It's a mystery whether Orenn's family actually DID arrange everything as part of a bigger plan.
This seems to me like fertile ground for all kinds of story-based missions. I am still cogitating on exactly what kind of missions would be best (and how close a player should be to the story), but I have some ideas that I will post when I get more time.
Well, I've found oyu can get level 1 trade in 2-3 missions. We should make level 1 comabt and weapons that fast too so prospective players get access to new ships.
I agree that by the time you've gone through the tutorial you should have achieved 1/1/0/0/0 or more.
Anyway, here is the mission structure:
http://www.wylfing.net/vo/itani_tutorial-1.pdf
It's not very descriptive, but it gives an idea of how the missions relate to each other. I'll post contents of each mission as I can (many of them are already invented in my head).
Anyway, here is the mission structure:
http://www.wylfing.net/vo/itani_tutorial-1.pdf
It's not very descriptive, but it gives an idea of how the missions relate to each other. I'll post contents of each mission as I can (many of them are already invented in my head).
Sorry for the double post but this is a slightly different topic. I have simple plot device in mind for Serco and I would like more Serco-centric players to have at it and let me know why it sucks. (Really. Good writing comes from hard criticism.)
The idea is that there is a character who thinks the Itani are worthy opponents in battle and should be treated with respect. In opposition is a character who thinks the Itani are weaklings that deserve obliteration. At a closer level, these two are (were!) competitors for their sensai's favor in training and strove to outdo each other at every turn. They have an intimate rivalry that goes beyond the philosophies they argue about. In the same spirit as before, it's the uber-competent* one who thinks the Itani monks should be seen as equals.
* The uberstudent has had a long history of dumbing down his assaults to meet the expectations of his teacher and other other students. In reality he's far more capable than he lets on, and has had his mettle tested 1:1 by Itani pilots, so he knows what is what.
Edit: If you have seen Macross Plus you know what this plot is and (maybe) where I would go with it. I would want these two to be males and their "secret" competition is for a woman they both want but neither can realistically have.
Edit 2: What would be extra cool is tha the woman they want is undergoing an genetic/alteration evolution that puts her far beyond anything they can come up with -- i.e., she is becoming WAY more the Serco ideal than either of them even though they are amazing star pilots.
The idea is that there is a character who thinks the Itani are worthy opponents in battle and should be treated with respect. In opposition is a character who thinks the Itani are weaklings that deserve obliteration. At a closer level, these two are (were!) competitors for their sensai's favor in training and strove to outdo each other at every turn. They have an intimate rivalry that goes beyond the philosophies they argue about. In the same spirit as before, it's the uber-competent* one who thinks the Itani monks should be seen as equals.
* The uberstudent has had a long history of dumbing down his assaults to meet the expectations of his teacher and other other students. In reality he's far more capable than he lets on, and has had his mettle tested 1:1 by Itani pilots, so he knows what is what.
Edit: If you have seen Macross Plus you know what this plot is and (maybe) where I would go with it. I would want these two to be males and their "secret" competition is for a woman they both want but neither can realistically have.
Edit 2: What would be extra cool is tha the woman they want is undergoing an genetic/alteration evolution that puts her far beyond anything they can come up with -- i.e., she is becoming WAY more the Serco ideal than either of them even though they are amazing star pilots.