Forums » Suggestions
I can't argue with the ratings, tosheeba, but i'd have to disagree completely about what makes a good rp environment.
True role playing should come from the *player*, not the mission system. If anything, missions can sometimes be a hinderance to roleplaying. For example, what if I want to RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT, and one of the intro missions is to kill a bunch of Serco invaders?
One of the great things about this game is that it's so open ended you can RP virtually any role you want. I think missions are important, just to give people something to do, but I don't think that's what makes a good RP environment.
For a good RP environment, you need two things: 1) open-ended gameplay and 2) lots of players.
One of these we have, the other one we don't.
True role playing should come from the *player*, not the mission system. If anything, missions can sometimes be a hinderance to roleplaying. For example, what if I want to RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT, and one of the intro missions is to kill a bunch of Serco invaders?
One of the great things about this game is that it's so open ended you can RP virtually any role you want. I think missions are important, just to give people something to do, but I don't think that's what makes a good RP environment.
For a good RP environment, you need two things: 1) open-ended gameplay and 2) lots of players.
One of these we have, the other one we don't.
I think a problem is that, while many LOVE to roleplay, there's no way to take the fruits of that roleplay and extend them to the game
as a whole.
as a whole.
Re: tosheeba [Moriel]
> One of the things this game lacks the most is Role Playing.
The game has no hability to offer roles to players and I'm not talking about just trader or fighter role but roles like spies, diplomats, assassins, etc... Roles completely immersed in subplots generated by the game engine itself.
Re: Phaserlight
> i'd have to disagree completely about what makes a good rp environment.
>
> True role playing should come from the *player*, not the mission system. If
> anything, missions can sometimes be a hinderance to roleplaying. For example,
> what if I want to RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT, and one of the intro missions
> is to kill a bunch of Serco invaders?
>
> One of the great things about this game is that it's so open ended you can RP
> virtually any role you want. I think missions are important, just to give people
> something to do, but I don't think that's what makes a good RP environment.
Sorry, but after reading both arguments, I'd have to agree more with Moriel's. The problem with not tying in the role-play into the game engine is that the role-play becomes illusory, and there is no way for the engine to keep track of statistics.
To take your example, Phaserlight, if you want to "RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT," then there should be some way of grading your performance as such. For example, there should be game engine-maintained statistics documenting how many Serco ships in need you have successfully helped in some way. Otherwise, you're just doing everything in your own imagination, and creating a meta-RPG on top of the RPG.
In short, you're then meta-RPG'ing, and not really RPG'ing. This is a computer-based RPG, not a paper-and-pencil-based one, and there is no human dungeonmaster. The game engine is the dungeonmaster. Any RPG'ing, as opposed to meta-RPG'ing, you do needs to be supported and documented by the game engine.
We need some way to document and obtain statistics on role-playing.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> One of the things this game lacks the most is Role Playing.
The game has no hability to offer roles to players and I'm not talking about just trader or fighter role but roles like spies, diplomats, assassins, etc... Roles completely immersed in subplots generated by the game engine itself.
Re: Phaserlight
> i'd have to disagree completely about what makes a good rp environment.
>
> True role playing should come from the *player*, not the mission system. If
> anything, missions can sometimes be a hinderance to roleplaying. For example,
> what if I want to RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT, and one of the intro missions
> is to kill a bunch of Serco invaders?
>
> One of the great things about this game is that it's so open ended you can RP
> virtually any role you want. I think missions are important, just to give people
> something to do, but I don't think that's what makes a good RP environment.
Sorry, but after reading both arguments, I'd have to agree more with Moriel's. The problem with not tying in the role-play into the game engine is that the role-play becomes illusory, and there is no way for the engine to keep track of statistics.
To take your example, Phaserlight, if you want to "RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT," then there should be some way of grading your performance as such. For example, there should be game engine-maintained statistics documenting how many Serco ships in need you have successfully helped in some way. Otherwise, you're just doing everything in your own imagination, and creating a meta-RPG on top of the RPG.
In short, you're then meta-RPG'ing, and not really RPG'ing. This is a computer-based RPG, not a paper-and-pencil-based one, and there is no human dungeonmaster. The game engine is the dungeonmaster. Any RPG'ing, as opposed to meta-RPG'ing, you do needs to be supported and documented by the game engine.
We need some way to document and obtain statistics on role-playing.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
*bump*
Leviathans, Hive Territory battles; super-cool, but if there is one thing that Vendetta needs before going big time, it's missions.
Imho this is really the *only* thing Vendetta needs to make it big at this point.
There's got to be 1,001 interesting storylines we can come up with given the backstory and existing game parameters. Just look at EV:Nova; the game was far more simplistic, and NPCs existed as nothing more than text and ships, yet it worked great.
If guild has enough funds, perhaps you could take on a part-time dev devoted just to writing storyline missions. Or now that you have a fourth (yay momerath!) perhaps John (he wrote the backstory, didn't he?) could start churning out some storylines.
Leviathans, Hive Territory battles; super-cool, but if there is one thing that Vendetta needs before going big time, it's missions.
Imho this is really the *only* thing Vendetta needs to make it big at this point.
There's got to be 1,001 interesting storylines we can come up with given the backstory and existing game parameters. Just look at EV:Nova; the game was far more simplistic, and NPCs existed as nothing more than text and ships, yet it worked great.
If guild has enough funds, perhaps you could take on a part-time dev devoted just to writing storyline missions. Or now that you have a fourth (yay momerath!) perhaps John (he wrote the backstory, didn't he?) could start churning out some storylines.
See momerath42's post: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/10499#120780
"Ray is working on a mission editor, so once thats done, we should see lots of new and more interesting missions."
Also, in the recent Wizards of Technology podcast interview, John mentioned once the mission editor is finished, they may allow players to start creating missions.
"Ray is working on a mission editor, so once thats done, we should see lots of new and more interesting missions."
Also, in the recent Wizards of Technology podcast interview, John mentioned once the mission editor is finished, they may allow players to start creating missions.
Sorry, but after reading both arguments, I'd have to agree more with Moriel's. The problem with not tying in the role-play into the game engine is that the role-play becomes illusory, and there is no way for the engine to keep track of statistics.
To take your example, Phaserlight, if you want to "RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT," then there should be some way of grading your performance as such. For example, there should be game engine-maintained statistics documenting how many Serco ships in need you have successfully helped in some way. Otherwise, you're just doing everything in your own imagination, and creating a meta-RPG on top of the RPG.
In short, you're then meta-RPG'ing, and not really RPG'ing. This is a computer-based RPG, not a paper-and-pencil-based one, and there is no human dungeonmaster. The game engine is the dungeonmaster. Any RPG'ing, as opposed to meta-RPG'ing, you do needs to be supported and documented by the game engine.
We need some way to document and obtain statistics on role-playing.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
I have to agree here with Deku, the engine should be able to keep track of such things, even if the player him/herself can not see it, and should have a bearing on future interactions with npc's.
To take your example, Phaserlight, if you want to "RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT," then there should be some way of grading your performance as such. For example, there should be game engine-maintained statistics documenting how many Serco ships in need you have successfully helped in some way. Otherwise, you're just doing everything in your own imagination, and creating a meta-RPG on top of the RPG.
In short, you're then meta-RPG'ing, and not really RPG'ing. This is a computer-based RPG, not a paper-and-pencil-based one, and there is no human dungeonmaster. The game engine is the dungeonmaster. Any RPG'ing, as opposed to meta-RPG'ing, you do needs to be supported and documented by the game engine.
We need some way to document and obtain statistics on role-playing.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
I have to agree here with Deku, the engine should be able to keep track of such things, even if the player him/herself can not see it, and should have a bearing on future interactions with npc's.
I'm more with Phaserlight. Good roleplaying comes from the player playing the role, and is far more the responsibility of the player than the game. When DekuDekuplex he says 'if you want to "RP a pacifistic, Serco friendly UIT," there should be some way of grading your performance as such', I'm of two minds on that. On the one hand, a good roleplayer should "grade his performance" himself, and either decide he's fulfilling he role he meant to, or else modify the role he's playing. But on the other hand, the game should provide situations in which to roleplay, of which mission trees are one example.
However, successfully completing a mission tree does not necessarily mean you are a good roleplayer. I know people who play RPGs & complete every possible mission in the game, and when you ask them "What role did you play? Where you a Pirate? Or a Military Officer? Or a Trader? etc." they'll say, "Yeah, I did missions for all of those." They did not play a role, they just churned through mission trees.
But, that does not mean mission trees are bad, it just means they are not the key to roleplaying. The player playing a role is the key.
However, successfully completing a mission tree does not necessarily mean you are a good roleplayer. I know people who play RPGs & complete every possible mission in the game, and when you ask them "What role did you play? Where you a Pirate? Or a Military Officer? Or a Trader? etc." they'll say, "Yeah, I did missions for all of those." They did not play a role, they just churned through mission trees.
But, that does not mean mission trees are bad, it just means they are not the key to roleplaying. The player playing a role is the key.
Fist of all, those were NOT my words, those were Deku's and Moriel's, and I never mentioned anything regarding rp'ing through mission trees. What I simply ment was that your actions in game, within a mission or just flying around killing or escorting or sitting still would have an effect on your "characters" persona. Example:
your a UIT flying trade missions to Serco space and you happen to come across some npc Itani traders as you are flying though grey space. You decide to shoot them down, but since your in grey space you don't take a faction hit. BUT! the Itani managed to get off a distress call informing his friends and comrades in Itani space that he was attacked by you. Next time you encounter an Itani trader they will avoid you going the extra effort to avoid getting into gun range. Not necessarily ruining your faction but simply that you've now developed a reputation, seperate from your faction standing. Also, Serco ships might have monitored the encounter and reported that you were taking out Itani vessels and might give you a special mission or offer you something prematurely because of your actions.
All this would be invisible until you tried to interact with the npc.
How many people now hail npc traders to see what they are up to, I'd take a guess and say 1/2 the players online.
This whole, the player makes the rp, is for the birds, I've done that in the past in other games and it just does not work, the engine has to support the role playing of the PC or it's all just meta-rpg like Deku said and has NO BEARING on the actual universe.
your a UIT flying trade missions to Serco space and you happen to come across some npc Itani traders as you are flying though grey space. You decide to shoot them down, but since your in grey space you don't take a faction hit. BUT! the Itani managed to get off a distress call informing his friends and comrades in Itani space that he was attacked by you. Next time you encounter an Itani trader they will avoid you going the extra effort to avoid getting into gun range. Not necessarily ruining your faction but simply that you've now developed a reputation, seperate from your faction standing. Also, Serco ships might have monitored the encounter and reported that you were taking out Itani vessels and might give you a special mission or offer you something prematurely because of your actions.
All this would be invisible until you tried to interact with the npc.
How many people now hail npc traders to see what they are up to, I'd take a guess and say 1/2 the players online.
This whole, the player makes the rp, is for the birds, I've done that in the past in other games and it just does not work, the engine has to support the role playing of the PC or it's all just meta-rpg like Deku said and has NO BEARING on the actual universe.
Uh, well, I copy & pasted it out of your post... should have realised you were quoting Deku, it was plenty obvious. Whoops.
Anyway, I do agree with you that the game should support roleplaying in the ways you describe, but I would say it already does. The faction standing system is by no means perfect, but it does keep track of a players actions & change the behaviour of NPCs accordingly. I do think the faction standing system, the mission tree system, and many other game engine aspects of roleplaying can be, should be, and will be improved, but I would say that in the game as it is today, there's plenty of room in which to roleplay, and it's not the games fault if there's a lack of roleplaying (although I wouldn't say that there is a lack).
> This whole, the player makes the rp, is for the birds, I've done that in the past in other games and it just does not work, the engine has to support the role playing of the PC or it's all just meta-rpg like Deku said and has NO BEARING on the actual universe.
I really don't understand how you can believe that. Roleplaying - look at the word, it means there's a role that is being played. It's the player that plays the role. The game helps the player play the role, but if the player isn't going to roleplay, it doesn't matter how much support the game has for roleplaying, it won't be roleplaying. The mission tree was just one example, anything the game engine does can be used by the player as an aid to roleplaying, or not.
Not that it matters for this discussion, but "meta-RPG" usually refers to roleplaying a gamer playing a RPG.
Anyway, I do agree with you that the game should support roleplaying in the ways you describe, but I would say it already does. The faction standing system is by no means perfect, but it does keep track of a players actions & change the behaviour of NPCs accordingly. I do think the faction standing system, the mission tree system, and many other game engine aspects of roleplaying can be, should be, and will be improved, but I would say that in the game as it is today, there's plenty of room in which to roleplay, and it's not the games fault if there's a lack of roleplaying (although I wouldn't say that there is a lack).
> This whole, the player makes the rp, is for the birds, I've done that in the past in other games and it just does not work, the engine has to support the role playing of the PC or it's all just meta-rpg like Deku said and has NO BEARING on the actual universe.
I really don't understand how you can believe that. Roleplaying - look at the word, it means there's a role that is being played. It's the player that plays the role. The game helps the player play the role, but if the player isn't going to roleplay, it doesn't matter how much support the game has for roleplaying, it won't be roleplaying. The mission tree was just one example, anything the game engine does can be used by the player as an aid to roleplaying, or not.
Not that it matters for this discussion, but "meta-RPG" usually refers to roleplaying a gamer playing a RPG.
3. you should be able to take multiple trade missions simultaniously. doing this would alow traders to increase their profets. while that isn't nesesary for experienced player i think it will help interest low levev players more.
--Lord Q
Yes yes yes yes! I was actually going to suggest this in a thread of its own before I found it here. This is the single biggest peeve that I have after a couple days of intensive playing. Why can't I have a combat mission with it's bonuses as well as a scrap metal mission? It makes no sense to me.
And this is even more true when it comes to timed trading missions. Although more difficult to implement, it would be very neat if you were allowed to take more than one timed trading mission at a time, forcing you to figure out the best route to get the jobs done. It also seems ridiculous when there's two delivery missions to nearby places that only take up 3 spaces each in your cargo that you can't take them both.
One potential problem if multiple missions are allowed though is inflation. This would definitely have to be tested out before it was implemented.
--Lord Q
Yes yes yes yes! I was actually going to suggest this in a thread of its own before I found it here. This is the single biggest peeve that I have after a couple days of intensive playing. Why can't I have a combat mission with it's bonuses as well as a scrap metal mission? It makes no sense to me.
And this is even more true when it comes to timed trading missions. Although more difficult to implement, it would be very neat if you were allowed to take more than one timed trading mission at a time, forcing you to figure out the best route to get the jobs done. It also seems ridiculous when there's two delivery missions to nearby places that only take up 3 spaces each in your cargo that you can't take them both.
One potential problem if multiple missions are allowed though is inflation. This would definitely have to be tested out before it was implemented.
Why couldnt we buy forged licences and various standings at Corvus?
Like false ID or smtn.
Like false ID or smtn.
yeah, that sounds good. but if we take a look at single player RPG's its how you TALK (ironicly) if you said "I hope those serco scum died!" then it will show you dont like em' so when talking to traders....(what we need is a chat thingy, kinda like a vendetta-IM)
out of topic---->erm. a mission editor. player made missions. SWEET!
now, can I test it? :)
Blackhole Goldclaw
out of topic---->erm. a mission editor. player made missions. SWEET!
now, can I test it? :)
Blackhole Goldclaw