"Lemming was being sarcastic you numb-nut.".....and I was just kidding, did you see the ;) or not?, for, most of the time that means just kidding.

I'm just really comfortable with my Gentoo Linux system. Everything just makes sense in it, at least to me. If I don't know where something is or how something works or what this dohickey is supposed to do, I can usually find out fairly quickly (*hugs all my man pages and google*).

OS X users aren't too bad... I could stand to use OS X, but it's like visiting a place that you just couldn't quite settle down in.

*pulls out the soapbox*
Windows? I'm tired of the hypocrisy. I spend a lot of time on my system... I refuse to allow it to be governed by a company who's foremost concern is how to quickly and efficiently remove money from my pocket and place it in theirs.

*steps down from his soapbox*

Anyway, we've all gotta use what we're most comfortable with.

And I'm sick and tired of people blaming every thing from harddrive crashes, to viruses, to their lack of employment on Bill Gates. *Most* of the problems encountered by users are a direct result of either something they, themselves have done or hardware failure.

So ponder on this my children. If you are going to write a virus, are you going to write for a fringe O/S and hit maybe 100,000 computers worldwide? Or are you going to go after the 100,000 lb gorilla and infect 1,000,000 computers? Install a functional virus scanner before connecting to a network. Use a firewall. Practice safe surfing. Don't blame Bill Gates for the state of the economy.

It's not Gates' fault, but much of it is Microsoft's fault. I prefer to blame Balmer, anyway. :D

Seriously, though, a large amount of it is due to Microsoft. Automatic updating disabled by default? ActiveX allowing installation of programs without the user's knowledge? Logging in as root by default? Outlook's multitude of vulnerabilities? Microsoft's typically slow action on security updates? I'd say those are all inherent flaws in Windows, that the average user isn't going to know about. If Firefox were the default browser instead of Internet Explorer, and Thunderbird the default mail client instead of Outlook Express, I can guarantee you the number of infected machines (by spyware, adware, viruses, etc.) would significantly lessen. They're not perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better.If automatic updating were enabled by default, same. The same thing goes for the firewall, and default login privileges. The problem is that Microsoft is exploiting its monopoly and the stupidity of the average user, so only people in the know (or people who hire us) are safe. Quite frankly, the average user doesn't know or *care* that he or she has a virus on his or her system. The average user doesn't know or care what a firewall is. All the average user cares about is that it works well enough for them at the moment. Feh, and they complain about spam. When they do their part to prevent zombies, then they can complain.

I grant you point Pyro. I never said Windows or Microsoft was perfect. The average user won't know or care about most of the features of any O/S. Some are lucky to know what the power button is for (and even *this* is too much information). But is the problem Microsoft? Or is it the hacker/crackers who target it?

No operating system is 100%. Anyone trying to make a splash is going to go after Microsoft since it's the most widely used O/S. If Linux or Apple were the big guns, you can bet we'd be having a similar conversation about them instead. As I said, why go after the fringe O/S and hit 100,000 users when you can hit the big daddy and hit over 1,000,000.

I've always found that Automatic Update is enabled by default. I have to disable it during a reload since the average user doesn't have the rights to install the updates anyway (though that may be after I apply the service pack).

Conclusion: both users AND microsoft are dumb (exceptions on both sides of course). Together they have the power to make things worse.

" "Lemming was being sarcastic you numb-nut.".....and I was just kidding, did you see the ;) or not?, for, most of the time that means just kidding."

Usually in the english language you:

a) End a sentence with a '?' , *not* following it immediately with other punctuation.
b) Do *not* start a sentence with "For", and place a comma after it.
c) Do what was done in the quote above.
d) a and b only.

Seriously, zamzx, I'm glad you're getting better at english, but you need to study more. Commas are not like "morning after" pills, you don't use them every time you use a word.

Ooo, ooo, is it e? :P

paedric, Automatic Update has been disabled by default in every Windows installation I've seen... Also, OS X is much more secure by default, as is Linux. Linux can be somewhat insecure by default, but since most of its users know what they're doing, it tends to be secure. Once it becomes more user-friendly, I can guarantee you it will be more secure than Windows.

Must be related to the service pack because I'm forever disabling Autoupdate on reloads I do (and I do alot of them).

"Linux... since most of its users know what they're doing..."

Which is the crux of the conversation. It's dangerous just letting most users push the power button.

Im pretty sure after every installation of Win XP it randomly asks you to use windows update.

A bubble pops up near the Windows Clock saying something about "Stay Up to Date with windows update" or something like that.

And then a pop-up box drill down lets you configure windows update... with a few settings like:

"Do Not notify me of new updates"
"Notify me of new updates"
"Download all updates and notify me to install"
"Download and install all updates"

Something like that... i think...

They may have started doing that, but it's not enough. The average user is probably just going to hit "no" and go on with his or her life. It should automatically download and install them by default, with a setting somewhere in the control panel.

Started? It was always there. I think it happens when windows finds out its connected to the internet.

The problem with windows installing the updates by itself without notification is that some (well... most) updates need a restart, which can be quite annoying.

FYI: The drill down is fast anyway. I shouldn't of even said drill down, its either you pick Download and Notify, Download and Install, Notify only ect... I don't know where you got the fact that users will pick no. (its not even possible in this case, but they may just ignore the notification bubble).

Either way... MS will never be killed... its just too wide-spread for any other OS to overshadow it.

Do not notify = no

Anywho, that's another thing that bugs me... Why the heck do you have to restart to update Windows?

Linux, live by it (At least on your nongaming comps!)

Here here Pyro. I have an iMac and a PC for certain reasons...and that's always pissed me off that I have to reboot the entire PC so that I can install some <1MB update.

My advise:

Get a Mac for word processing, web design, everything
then get a PC for gaming.

Since the MacOS is a lot less used than the WindowsOS you're less likely to get a virus and also, Macs have a higher performance level (fewer crashes, etc etc). However, the PC market has the gaming base since the publisher's are marketing mainly to the large-scale PC owners and ignoring the Mac users.

Or you could just run Linux and save yourself 1000 bucks over a Mac... :P

I don't know about trading that $1,000 for the Mac. Some people I know (including the majority of the "technicians" I work with) don't want anything to do with Linux, mostly because of the "work" and the "learning" they'd have to do.

E.G.: A coworker wants me to burn him a Linux CD (nameless distribution install CD) so he can "play around" with Linux. When I press him to find out exactly what he wants, so I can figure out what distribution he wants, I get the impression that he'd like mostly everything preconfigured, so he didn't have to do much work to actually get it installed. His one sure statement? He'd "like it to look something like OS X. That'd be cool." Oh... and "it's gotta have a GUI." Erg.

I then had to explain what a X Windows System is & what is does... then what a window manager is... ad nauseum. Linux has perked this guy's interest, but he's not too keen on wading through all the options that Linux provides for him. To him, it's work, not play, if that makes any sense.

I'd love to slap him behind a Mac, and let him go to town on OS X... because that's what he's looking for. Something that installs fairly easily, preferably with a GUI installation. Something that he "can play around with."

As it is, I have a large feeling I'm going to end up spending an afternoon sitting in front of his system, performing a Stage 3 Gentoo install, getting KDE & kdm set up, and finally explaining what "emerge" and "portage" are, then turning him loose, probably with my cell phone number as an afterthought.

We'll see.

That's what I love about having two computers.

Mac has a fairly simple OS, but sadly that OS can not run most games so. PC it.

PC's have a fairly complex OS for Windows users but can operate most games so. Sadly, they have a tendancy to crash abruptly, so mac.

Plus it allows for a variety of use. Say you're doing a report. One comp runs internet and the other runs word documents and get one of those cool mice that moves things from one screen to another your set. (if you didnt get the mouse thing, watch the movie True Lies with Arnold Swartzegger)

theluckyone, just install Mandrake 10 for him. It comes entirely preconfigured (or configures itself on install), and is insanely easy to use. They've stuck in a number of tools, and they've completely revamped the control panel so it's actually usable for a newbie.

Relevant to the original topic of this thread:

Why Windows is a Security Nightmare
http://www.techuser.net/index.php?id=47