I don't know if any of you really understand how much Obama has been able to get done against the opposition he's facing. He was able to turn everything around against a party whose Reagan-inspired view on economics and politics is to do absolutely nothing and lift all regulations and oversight and whose newfound political strategy to appeal to the crazy southern conservatives who thrive on hate requires them to stand by their policy of doing absolutely nothing and preventing anything from happening even if it costs them our country. The Republicans have been blocking his every idea left and right and have been shunning any of their members who have rebelled from the immature game of chicken that Congress currently is. Because of this, the progress isn't quite turning car plants into tank factories overnight; but what work he has been able to squeeze out of our current disfunctional state has been phenominal.

And yes, the main reason that he's won this prize is because he's an inspiring speaker and is because he "wasn't Bush" (a crude but accurate point). His intelligent speaking and the fact that the dominant, controlling factor in the world was once again competant enough not to elect "another Bush" has provided more hope than I think most of us, looking for a reason to hate him in each of his acts rather than analyzing them without bias, have come to realize and that explains why every other neutral third party other than ourselves have found reason in this prize.

To prevent today's common counter argument of "Who the hell are you?",
Chaakin Tockoa

This thread just goes to prove that politics is just full of hateful people, on both sides.

So take a chill pill people and reread your posts. They make you look like ass hats. Lecter, Leebs (i can't remember which one of you has it) could you post that award for us. Thanks.

Shit, people still get upset about the kids singing about Obama? The Daily Show had a nice bit showing just how much that "incident" was blown out of proportion...

I've never believed in a god, and have always been a little irked about the "Under God" in the teacher-led Pledge of Allegiance (every year from Kindergarden to high school). But I get that I'm a minority, and don't complain about it. I've never included that line, and that's all that matters to me. But now the traditional sides are flipped and the more liberal message is brought into the classroom.

Out of curiosity, Lecter/Chaos, do you watch The Daily Show?

Video here: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-28-2009/america--target-america

Skip to about 3:25 for the part about the kids

turn table, you must be fucking jokeing. I don't really care what your irc name is, i dont bother with irc, its just another way for people to troll without having to actually be in the damn game.

So far all this thread has done is help form a view for me of obama supporters of either living in some alternate reality, where insuling people and having them over for beer, selling out your few remaining allies, being too weak to say shoot the pirates asap, having school children worship you in hitler youth style hymns, expanding government to levels that are becoming so alarmingly orwellean we will soon pass the british and austrailians is some major great accomplishment or they are just plain old pants-on-head retarded.

Lecter put it exactly right, and actually I think the soviets would have beaten the Nazi's without our help, and Stalin made Hitler look like a cute little puppy-dog. He killed not just dissenters but basically anybody else who happened to be un-necessary or at least non-essential. Next time I hope we leave those supposedly "enlightened" Europeans to their own fate, I'll laugh. and smittens, are you actually trying to say you use a fucking comedy show as a news source? Yes people get upset you moron, they don't want their kids being indoctrinated by liberal union teachers, it's not their place to teach political views. It makes me damn glad I don't have children because I'd have to home school them. How upset would you have been if they were being taught to worship Ronald Regan, or Ike?

Oh dear. I'm going to have to say another thing.

Godwin's law has been invoked. Discussion is now officially moot.

classic example of people totally missing the point. LNH the daily show might be a comedy show but it still makes a good point. Did you even watch the video? All the kids parents where told before hand about the lyrics to the song and none objected, obama had nothing to do with it and they sung about other presidents in the same song. Lastly did you totally miss the part at the end where the kids sang thank you songs to FEMA and bush after katrina hit? I don't seem to recall any out rage about that.

Gotta agree with Waffles here, though I'd add stupid to hateful. It's been Godwined, descending into lots of personal attacks, definitely time for a lock.

Heaven forbid people oppose Obama. It seems to me that he is becoming the 'God President' by which I mean as in ancient times he has been exalted above mortal man/woman to a higher and unquestionable status because of his partial divinity. I had thought humanity had evolved past that. As usual, I was wrong.

Meanwhile, in pursuit of his idealistic agenda, the corrupt bankers are rewarded with bailouts and at most a slap on the wrist. Failed industry is nationalized. The national debt is expected to nearly double in ten years because of his economic plans. The nation is polarized on health care and oblivious to the fact that we are rapidly accelerating towards our (US) own demise as a country. Stock up on ramon noodles folks, hyper-inflation is just around the corner.

This is not to say that the current situation is entirely or partially Obama's fault. It is his fault that he is accelerating it rather than bringing excess spending and debt under control. THAT would impress me.

against the opposition he's facing.

I hope you're not so stupid as to believe that joke of a statement. Let me break it down for you.

The U.S. federal government's power to act is entirely contained within two loci: the Executive and Congress. SCOTUS is merely an ex post check on the already accomplished acts of the first two branches, so I don't want to hear any hand-wringing about the Roberts' Court.

Now, Obama is the Executive branch, so if he's facing opposition it must be found in Congress, which is a bifurcated legislative body that writes the laws that Obama would like to execute. So, the Right Wing must be in control of Congress... no, wait, the Dems have majorities in BOTH FUCKING HOUSES OF CONGRESS:

House / Senate
Democrats 256 / 57
Independents 0 / 2
Republicans 178 / 40
Vacancies 1 / 1

Keep in mind that (1) both vacancies will be filled by Democrats, and (2) both of the senate "Independents" (Joe Lieberman and Bernie Sanders) caucus with the Democrats.

The only opposition Obama is facing is from the ever-shrinking percentage (currently at 56.6%) of Americans who actually pay Federal income tax. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/15/politics/otherpeoplesmoney/main4945874.shtml

Sadly Lecter, i'm not going to be paying income tax this year (full refund expected next tax season). But I've been either unemployed or payed $.25 over minimum wage this year. Thank you College Degree! You were an awesome investment!

Sigh... But i wanna make enough to pay taxes... just not more than $250,000.

And, yeah. Democrats have the majority right now in Congress, big time.

oh, and i found it:

Uhh look I don't want to say any more cause I guess this is coming between us, but peytros makes an ironic point. Just as The Daily Show may not seem like a good place for news, and peytros might not seem like the right person for an intelligent opinion, they both make great points.

I've given up on normal news, even MSNBC is just too much for me. I've found The Daily Show to be consistently the most reliable and objective (much more objective than CNN, MSNBC, Fox) and it presents it in a funny way. Just because there's humor doesn't mean it's all made up or something. They call out Obama for his faults, just not in an over the top inflammatory way. I wish I could get you to watch it for just a couple episodes... it still might not turn out to be a show for you but it really is worth knowing about. I never watch or listen to The O'Reilly Factor or any similar-message shows, but I've watched them enough to know I just don't want to bother with it.

Flat Tax system. Everyone above the poverty line pays the same percentage. Some limited deductions allowed for family, new home, Obama portrait. I do not include charitable donations, because effectively paying people to give is not charity (I'm sure many will disagree for valid reasons). No penalty for success, nor loopholes to avoid paying significant portions of taxes.

I would go so far as to include business entities in the system.

/me is a radical

Oh, and if the government can't afford its programs without incurring debt, start shutting down non essential departments like the executive and legislative branches.

(God, I'm posting to a thread after calling for its lock, I should be pilloried!)

Fluffy, I am all for people opposing Obama, but only if they do it in a way that, you know, actually opposes Obama. Trashing him for winning the Nobel Peace Prize or for kids singing about him during Black History Month is really stupid, because none of that was his fault. Trashing him for lying about making the government more open, closing Guantanamo, ending Don't Ask Don't Tell, for funneling ridiculously huge sums of money to failing industries, pandering to lobbyists, and failing to keep the promises he made to the people who elected him, THOSE are good reasons.

There are so many good reasons to protest what Obama is doing. The fact that nobody seems to want to call him on them, instead choosing to either attack him for the stupidest shit ever or plug their ears singing "la la la I can't hear you!" simply tells me that the political system of the United States has failed. No longer is anything done for the good of the country. Half of the country shouldn't be the sworn enemy of the other half. When so many people are willing to so completely marginalize the entirety of the other party (applies to both) it's clear that we are doing it wrong.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't pay any federal taxes. Probably something to do with the fact that I would make more money from unemployment than I make as a grad student...

You have a very fair and open attitude diqrtvpe. I regret some of what I posted came across as the bashing you describe. My intent was to bash the 'untouchable' image that I perceive not the man himself. I think for myself and possibly others, there was a significant WTF moment when it was announced that he had won the prize and we spoke accordingly.

To be fair, Obama may be the figurehead, but his ambitions are not unique to the democratic party. This is a huge window of opportunity. I don't recall the last time a president had the advantage of having both houses controlled by their party. Two years from now, the dynamics may change significantly enough that the window will be lost and he will be hamstrung and limited in what he can achieve like Reagan or Clinton. So I do not blame them in principle, I even agree with some of their agenda.

However, my deepest concerns as a US citizen have been disregarded by both parties. The US is a hollowed out economic engine. Decades of irresponsible spending and a failure to take the national debt seriously (we should have a f-ing surplus!) have put us in a precarious position that I personally fear is only going to get worse. Nations are starting to clamor for the world economy to move off of the dollar standard. I can't say that I'd blame them. If the US was a stock I would SO freaking short sell. Yet in the height of the downturn, the government is pouring money into banks to 'encourage' lending. TO WHO??? Most companies are looking to reduce their operating expenses and debt loads. They are planning for a long term recession- which means layoffs and closings. Most companies seriously needing loans are a high risk at this point. My company has frankly said that even if the economy recovers, they do not anticipate the same level of spending that we benefited from in prior years. That suggests to me that the people giving this advice and making these economic decisions do not have a clue. Propping up the banks who were irresponsible and pouring money into failed businesses models because the UAW is your buddy may get the economy moving again, but it does not fix the underlying problems that will re-emerge sooner rather than later. But this isn't even seriously discussed.

Its not a Republican issue.
Its not a Democratic issue.
Its an American issue. (politically incorrect term used intentionally)

/soapbox

Edit: Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee :p

Diq, to be clear:

We're trashing the Nobel prize committee, not Obama, for Obama's winning the Nobel Peace Prize. It's like me picking a new associate hire based off which one gives the best blowjob: not how it's supposed to work.

We're trashing whatever school administrator/teacher, not Obama, that thought the following was an appropriate means of celebrating Black History Month (admittedly Obama's election is a significant and celebratory event for that month, despite the fact that Obama is not descended from those who have traditionally been subject to the arguably crippling disadvantages that come from generations of slavery):

Uhm, uhm, uhm, Barack Hussein Obama
He said all should lend a hand to make the country strong again
Uhm, uhm, uhm, Barack Hussein Obama
He said we must be fair today, equal work means equal pay
Uhm, uhm, uhm, Barack Hussein Obama
He said take a stand, make sure everyone gets a chance
Uhm, uhm, uhm, Barack Hussein Obama
He said red, yellow, black and white, all are equal in his sight
Uhm, uhm, uhm, Barack Hussein Obama
YEAH. Barack Hussein Obama

Not one of those brats has any personal conception of the meaning of those lyrics. Could they personally understand that a black man being elected the president of the Unites States is, in and of itself, important and good? Yes, elementary school children can figure that much out.

But when you start bringing social policy into it the mix, I call bullshit indoctrination.

There's plenty for which I'll trash Obama himself, but the above are more issues I have with hagiography and mindless hero-worship by those who should know better.

And since everyone feels the need to comment on their personal tax situation: I pay more in federal income tax (not SSI, not Medicare/aid, just income tax) than most of you earn in a year. To do this, I give up sleep, meaningful relationships, almost every single weekend, and most things I enjoy in life. You're all welcome. That goes double for those of you in New York, who garner another 10%+ of my annual income.

[Edit]Fluffy, stop posting while I'm posting![/Edit]

Not all of you, Lecter, though I do appreciate the distinction. I agree, and I tried to make that clear in my post, that people are going gaga over Obama in really stupid ways, and that the song and the prize are kinda WTF moments (though really, objecting to the equal work means equal pay line? I don't think he actually means to do anything about it, but thinking that two people doing the exact same thing should be paid the same isn't really what most people would call indoctrination).

And word, Fluffy. The United States Government has stopped serving the people so much as the corporate interests who are paying for their reelection, and everything else is kind of an afterthought.

Also, Lecter, my job requires me to at times work 72+ hours at a time, for months at a time. Weekends, holidays, national emergencies, when we're running I'm at work. And most educators, while not quite that extreme, work similarly ridiculous hours for similarly ridiculous (lack of) pay. You're welcome. /snark :P

EDIT: Considering the fact that up until that post you had made two reasonably constructive posts in this thread, Lecter, I definitely wasn't aiming that at you. Also, as regards your blowjob comment, this.

I love these constructive conversations!