Yech.... maybe if I'm not lazy later I'll respond in more detail, not that it will do any good. Just quick, since I just got done driving ten hours home:

If a war got bad enough to draft and I was drafted, I'd go for sure. You don't have to join the army to support the war, we've got enough at the moment who are better fit than I am who have volunteered.

U.S. vs. Al'Qaeda and Saddam ≠ Russia vs. Georgia. A war to topple an oppressive regime that we are partly responsible for in the first place who is not only a threat to us but has a history of torturing and murdering its own civilians, then to restore and rebuild, is not the same as a war to conquer more territory.

CO2 is not warming the atmosphere; global warming is real (as is cooling), anthropogenic warming or cooling is a scam.

Of course we need something to replace oil, but it is not government's job to screw that up like they screw up everything else economic wherever they interfere. Private industry gave us oil, it will give us the replacement when it's ready, and it's not. Every time they revise when we will hit "peak oil," it is revised further out. We've past peak oil predictions dozens and dozens of times, and we're still discovering vast reserves that we're not allowed to tap (but other countries do!). Government action and regulation will only hinder things, it will help nothing. It never has helped.

Ok, time to get some sleep.

Not this shit again...

Of course this shit again. It always seems to come back to this shit....

And hooray, I have someone to vote for now, (Palin) rather than having to go to the polls just to vote against Barack No Experience Hussein Obama.

I'll say this much for the Republicans: at least they figured out that the n00b goes on the bottom of the ticket, not the top.

Haha, right on.

And the Republican n00b has more experience and better qualifications to be president than the Democrat nominee.

Hahahaha!

Oh, and she'll push for oil rather than for crippling the U.S.

PC, you forgot something:

the UN gave Georgia several years, and several notices to stop.

.. oh, wait, no, that was Iraq.

Russia also warned Georgia several times "Stop or we're coming" for several months before they invaded Georgia.

.. oh, wait, no that was the US saying it to "Sodomy Hussein"

So, yea, us going into Iraq is completely like Russia going into Georgia... NOT

Right, well said. We totally invaded Iraq unilaterally with no allies except a coalition of nations and seventeen UN resolutions. Oh, and we struck.... second.

Indeed we did. Technically, we were -already- at war with Iraq, for about 10 years. There was a cease-fire in effect, but that doesn't mean the war is over. It was a conditional surrender, they agreed to stop producing certain weapons, -and- they agreed to allow UN personel into their bases to verify the cease-fire conditions were being met. At any point in the future, if these cease-fire conditions were violated, the US, and it's "Gulf War 1" allies coul invade Iraq and topple the government.

This war in Iraq is simply a continuation of the aforementioned Gulf War, where Iraq invaded Kuwait, was defeated, and allowed to continue to exist anyway, provided those conditions were adhered to..

Then, 10 years later, after 17 more times of saying "Ok, do what you agreed to do, c'mon now. please guys?" We finally said "Enough"

In reply to Chaos' penultimate post:

If you volunteered, count my comment null and void. However, you have to concede that Georgia was mind-bogglingly stupid to challenge (and challenge they did) the biggest military power in the vicinity (that being Russia), and they promptly got crushed. They thought they could slip by during the Olympics. Their gamble failed, they have to pay the price. Not that I am trying to defend Russia, it's just the way it is. Right now, Russia is trying to get as much control over Georgia as possible without risking open war, no idea how this will play out in the end. And Iraq was equally stupid to challenge a military power like the US, yet they did.

On oil, and replacement of it:

Please realize I am not talking about peak oil. I am not talking about the evil government. I am talking about the fact that the oil and automobile industry have quite strong an interest in maintaining the status quo in oil usage and automobile usage (not that they're succeeding), and very little (besides making sure THEY are the one to provide any alternative) in developing real alternatives. No wonder, they are making money off people who do not want to change their lifestyle (I would not want to change mine, either, it just so happens that my lifestyle is very independent of oil as a means of storing energy, at least as far as I can influence it).

Just look at how it is. They (finally) throw heaps of money at improving fuel efficiency and hybrid cars, when it is obvious how little that will actually yield, instead of looking for other possibilities to store energy.

And the fact that we need to start using oil for things other than moving lumps of metal, providing electricity for people and the industry and heating our houses, is obvious, since it will be much more difficult to find replacements for oil in industry brances like medication, plastics, textiles and carbon fiber composites (not that they 're not trying).

But obviously, I'm chopping and no chips are flying.

If being qualified to comment on a war is dependent on whether you volunteered for the military or not, very few opinions would be heard, and that would disqualify Obama as well. That is a silly requirement. If I was drafted, I would go and serve proudly; fortunately it's not likely to come to that.

As for Georgia, this whole thing is an excuse for Russia to flex its muscles and see how the world reacts, and so far we really should be embarrassed. Whether Georgia was right for its action in South Ossetia or not I don't know enough to say, but Russia didn't have to invade and we should be stronger in our defense of our ally. As far as I can tell, Russia has been taking indirect shots at Russia by encouraging and supporting any little nation that wants to break away from Georgia, and has therefore been acting to bring about the fall of Georgia since the 90s. If this is the case, then Georgian military action is perfectly justified, and we should be supporting it. You know China is watching this, too, to see how the world responds and to see if they have any chances at Taiwan in the future. If we don't check Russia's power now, they will be emboldened to continue expanding through aggressive military action.

Again, there is no comparison to the Iraq war, other than that many things Bush has been accused of (war for oil, imperialist aggression, etc.), while not true of the Iraq war, is very true of this Russia/Georgia conflict.

I think you're wrong about the conspiracy by businesses to keep us dependent on oil. Naturally it is in the interest of oil companies that we keep using oil, but even they don't have the power to prevent technological advancement, and they are not trying. As far as the automobile industry, there is a huge market for "green" products, which is why so many corporations from GM to Wal-Mart are advertising how "green" they are. It does not mean they are on board with the global warming hoax, it just means that they have correctly assessed that there is a lot of money to be made exploiting the demographic that is willing to throw away money for peace of mind. So you have at least half of the situation completely backwards; they are continuing making a large profit by keeping our entire economy going (since it runs on oil whether you want it to or not and would collapse otherwise for want of a viable replacement), while at the same time expanding to make a killing off of people duped by the "green" fad as well.

Your lifestyle is as dependent on oil as a means of storing energy as mine is with my gas-guzzling Jeep Cherokee. I assume you either bike a lot or just have a short commute, and don't have to drive much, but I'm just assuming based on your comment. Everything you buy got where it was by using oil as a means of storing energy. Of course this is separate from all the products made from oil that you have pointed out, but I would point out that those products are being made at the same time as we burn oil for fuel; those uses are not mutually exclusive at all. Since the global warming issue is a hoax, the only question to be asked about oil is when it will run out, and we don't know when that will happen unless we artificially cause it to happen early by not producing and refining this natural, organic resource.

I was about to point out that if you turn on your lights you are using oil as a means of storing energy, but then I remembered you live in Europe (right?), and so it's likely that those are nukular powered lights. One of the few things I think the U.S. should follow Europe's lead on is the use of nukular power. And we should forget this treaty we have with the non-existent U.S.S.R. and not be afraid to refine more types of material for cleaner, more self-sustaining power plants. Nuclear power plants are expensive to build; but once built they provide the cheapest, most efficient, cleanest, safest energy we can provide so far.

It is infuriating that the same people who oppose oil in favor of alternatives stand in the way of developing those alternatives, viable or not. It is private corporations that have led the way in the past and will in the future to alternative fuels, not the government. The oil and auto industries have always, since the first oil was ever used, been putting money into better efficiency, from refining better oil to making products that use it more efficiently. You are responding to the new, very profitable wave of marketing aimed at the dupes in the green crowd and seeing it as Big Business responding to pressure and cleaning up their act, but that's not it at all. They've built crappy death trap bubble cars that get 40mpg or whatever in response to demand, but they still build SUVs because there's still demand for that, but vehicles in all categories today perform better than 20, 40, however many years ago.

I saw a "smart" car the other day, and had to resist the urge to smash it under the tire of my Jeep, because it was just so tiny and ugly, and emitted a choking cloud of smug.

Why? So that I can't interfere in the brainwashing of America's youth? The brainwashing I was subjected to in Boulder Colorado's schools, yet somehow survived?

I don't have any plans to teach, unless after I retire; but I do like teaching. I TA a few classes, and have at times basically taught those classes; I subbed for a professor that went out of town for a week in a general into to geology class. That was a lot of fun.

What danger do I pose to the education system?

Yeah what was up with Georgia poking Russia? What, are they completely stupid? This essentially comes down to brinksmanship:

Russia bets the U.S. wasn't willing to get involved in ANOTHER land war in Asia (Well, Eurasia, but anyway)
and
The U.S. bet that Russia didn't have the balls to invade a neighboring former soviet state during the Olympics.

Guess we lose this round.

It would be interesting to me to know how much support/coaxing NATO and the United States gave to Georgia beforehand. Seems there's a long pattern of promising support yet not delivering it when it comes to my country. That kind of pisses me off. Either we're on your side or not, and we're not allowed to be on your side only when it's convenient for us.

As a result of this, I'd say we push for immediate NATO membership for Georgia, get those anti-missile defenses installed in Poland and then say to Russia: "What now, bitches?" (Maybe we should make sure we've got some forward-deployed forces in Poland, for, um... "joint exercises", though, before we whip out the "bitches" line...)

Snax: Just be glad I'm not teaching public school students.

You already pointed it out, PC. You will destroy the left's brainwashing. Forcing schoolkids to watch "An Inconvenient Truth" and other left-wing propaganda, while hiding the other side of the stories.

You would possibly also undo the damage caused in most US history classes where it claims that, if I may paraphrase: "If you're white, then you are the cause of all the problems in the world."

History is being rewritten as we speak. Columbus is no longer a great explorer, but is now considered a cold-blooded killer because he brought diseases with him to this continent.

Edit: Oh and Leebs? That's because we -make- those promises, when strong leaders are in office, and then the selfish bastards we call neighbors vote them out because "We cant be the police of the world, gotta take care of ourselves first"

What a joke that is "Gotta take care of ourselves first!" Unless of course those same people think you are an idiot incapable of fending for yourself.. Then those same people go "He's too stupid to take care of himself, he needs US to do it for him"

Then to top it off, they convince minorities that they cannot acheive success without their help, wind up getting themselves elected -by- those minorities, and yet nothing ever happens, other than strangulation of said minorities self-esteem by "providing for the care" of individuals that they've managed to convince "You can't do it alone"

It really is nice to have a couple good allies on these forums.

LeberMac: Right on! break19 is totally right about why it happens, but I am right with you in the frustration as it happens. I really fear for Israel, we are basically the only ones who will be there for them, and we likely won't when it counts. As Saakashvili or however in hell you spell his name said, (paraphrasing), "If the U.S. doesn't help us, who in the world can?" Putin is KGB, and you don't leave the KGB. He is engaging in the imperialist aggression Bush is merely accused of. And Russia has money now.

break19: Yep, that's it. In elementary school, I literally learned two things: Columbus deliberately and cruelly disrupted the perfect peace and harmony with nature that existed in America with the "Native" Americans; and that Americans will cause all forests to be gone very soon with their greed. In elementary school I pointed out to my teachers to no avail that corporations in general are very responsible with trees and resources, because if they're gone they go out of business and they're not that stupid. I also got in big trouble for suggesting that I was a Native American, because I was born in Utah. I am not exaggerating.

As far as An Inconvenient Al, yeah that's a big problem. At BYU-Idaho, where I'm working on a geology degree, the elementary education students (the collectively lowest IQ group on campus) are required to take a general geology and Earth sciences class as part of their GEs. That's the class I TA. They complained enough that there were two papers to write during the semester that the administrators put pressure on the teachers to reduce their workload, which is scary. So now they write only one paper, on global warming, since they will encounter this topic teaching science. What we do is have them watch Algore's movie, since that is what everyone cites, and a direct response by the BBC called "The Great Global Warming Swindle," which is very good. Then we don't care which position they take, as long as they explain both and back up their arguments.

The results are hilarious. And frightening, since the dumb ones aren't a rare occurrence.

An Inconvenient truth is very dangerous to ignorant, gullible minds; but it makes a very nice straw man. Except it isn't really a straw man, since it's taken so seriously by anthropogenic global warming's proponents.

Oh, yeah, and polar bears murder baby seals:

Mmmm, seeeeeeal.

Seal stew is quite tasty. However my personal favorite is baby back seal ribs, with Heinz 57 sauce, along with some rainforest salad.

However my personal favorite is baby back seal ribs, with Heinz 57 sauce, along with some rainforest salad.

Heh. What do you do when you see an endangered animal munching on an endangered plant? ;)

Shoot the animal, pluck the plant, eat them both. Yum.

No, wrong! You inform the animal that the international community disapproves of its actions and ask it politely to stop.

If that doesn't work you side with the animal, because the plant obviously did something to provoke the incident.

Haha, we win, because Snax is down to ad hominem attacks!

Sorry, Snax; I'm already married.... to someone not remotely my cousin.