Maybe you've been suckered. :) I'll at least say he's less dishonest than Hillary, but then so is almost everyone else in the world. My ingame name is also Professor Chaos. I was a noob for awhile a few years ago, and now I'm a re-noob.

/me jumps back in

"all this global warming bullshit, the new home of communism."
Er...care to explain how climate change equals communism...?

"despite his good progress on taxes he still approved insane insane liberal spending." Deficit spending isn't a liberal policy, and I'd say that that's the strongest economic thing that Bush has done...deficit spend.

"but any mention of Jeremiah Wright is apparently inexcusable." From what I hear, everyone is jumping on Obama for even knowing him MUCH more than Romney was hindered by being LDS. Speaking of which, do you live in Utah? With you being a member of the church, I'm curious, as I live in this good ole desert state. :o

Also, LeberMac: "Lastly, I'd have voted for Kucinich (if he ever got any mainstream support) because that little fucker is JUST crazy enough to make things interesting." Hell yes.

You kidding? I'd have voted for Kucinich just to see his wife on TV all the fucking time. Tall, curvy red-head=hot.

"the one thing Romney's record proves is that he is great at managing finances"

Yes, the man who gave Massachusetts its biggest deficit in history, and did so while bleeding the towns and cities dry? The man who was elected not because of his policies, but because he's apparently a good-lucking guy who can read a piece of paper? The man whose greatest claim to political ability is having vaguely done stuff with the Olympics that one time? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough before -- he's an idiot. A buffoon. A completely useless politician.

Silly Republicans.

Aren't they all?

I read Obama's "plan" to help with college expenses. Doesn't seem that helpful, really, and most of it seems to have been done already.

Shadowkhas: I'm not implying that the process of climate change is communism, but that the politics behind the debate are a new refuge for communism. What I'm talking about is that global warming is more of a political movement than scientific one. It's about control over people's lives, and fighting technological advancement, which is what communism used to do before it completely failed. When it failed, all the old communists and hippies needed something to hold on to in order for their lives to have a purpose, so they jumped on environmentalism. A good example is the Kyoto treaty, whose real purpose is to hurt the U.S. economy, and by its own admission (if you actually look at the text of the thing, which most people don't) will do nothing noticeable for the environment while costing (mostly the U.S., no one else, even if they signed it, would actually go along) ridiculous amounts of money that would be better spent elsewhere. I've got more, but I'd be here typing all day and you don't want to read a dozen pages on this. So I'll just address the communism statement. I'd noticed how communist "green" policies were a while back, and recently have heard it echoed in various places. Here are a couple examples that aren't talk show hosts:

Czech President Václav Klaus recently compared global warming to communism.

George Reisman says in Capitalism that "it should not be surprising to see hordes of former Reds, or of those who otherwise would have become Reds, turning from Marxism and becoming the Greens of the ecology movement. It is the same fundamental philosophy in a different guise, ready as ever to wage war on the freedom and well-being of the individual."

Here's an example of Mikhail Gorbachev's involvement in Green Cross International as a way to practice communism.

There are others, but you get the point. It's not a spontaneous thoughtless statement I made. I am in no way suggesting that everyone who believes in global warming is a communist. Please don't take it that way. There are many who are sincere in their belief. In fact, for a lot of people it is kind of a pseudo-religion. there's a great speech by Michael Crichton, who previously believed in anthropogenic global warming until he researched it for a book and changed his mind, about this. Several others have made similar statements. Also, there is no consensus on the issue of anthropogenic climate change! This is a myth, and Algore's biggest lie. I could go on at great length about the science of global warming, but not right now. Maybe if you provoke me, which is all too easy to do.

On Obama, yes, he's being called out for Jeremiah Wright now, but it took awhile. The mainstream media ignored it for a long time, until enough people pointed it out that they couldn't leave it alone any more. Romney was made to address his religion, so people wouldn't think Mormons had plans of world domination or something.

I was born in Utah, shadowkhas, but never stayed there long. I actually grew up in Boulder, Colorado (a crazy liberal hippie town, but I came out ok), but I claim Missouri, since that's where I went to high school. Now I'm at BYU-Idaho, and I really don't like towns that are dominated by Mormons, even though I am one. Where in Utah do you live?

Is it just my limited experience with them here on the East coast, or are mormon girls disproportionally attractive? Not that they're consistently 8s, 9s, or 10s--though I know a couple who are--but that they're consistently above average as a group.

Lecter, the ones who get out are. Utah is half and half, but the ones who pretty there are really damn pretty.

Chaos, BYU? Boo, hiss and other stuff.

Same Lecter. Makes sense though, since genes'll stay in the family.

And the green movement isn't fighting technological advancement...it's just changing how it progresses. But I'll agree it makes your cause easier to support by making things black and white.

Oh yah I forgot to mention that Mrs. Kucinich is pretty damn hot.

Is Nader running? I'd encourage Nader just to destroy the already feeble presidential hopes of Democrats. I can't wait until Denver, where the Democratic party will hopefully rend itself in half. Or at least be the site of Mrs. Clinton's comeuppance.

I'm pretty sure McCain will win, essentially because I'm afraid that the general population of the United States is not ready for a black leader or a female leader. It'll be another crusty 'ol white guy.

Granted, a genuine war-hero with a wife who owns a beer distributorship, but still a crusty old white guy.

moldy, you're in Utah as well? :o I live in West Jordan, in the good ole Salt Lake valley.

"It's about control over people's lives, and fighting technological advancement," Erm...I disagree with that. Control over people's lives? Maybe. But isn't there a point where someone should step in to prevent polluters from killing the planet under the idea that 'they have the right to?' Fighting technological advancement? If anything, I'd say it's pushing it...forcing us to look at what we can do to continue our current lifestyles, while being environmentally feasible. Making a car that emits less pollutants, and runs the same, is a marvelous achievement. I can elaborate more, as cars are what I know. Let's look at the 70s...a 4.9 liter V8 engine in a Mustang made 140 horsepower. Now, a Mustang engine has 4.6 liters and can produce around 300 horsepower. That's advancement, and I'm not even going to go on the tangent of small-displacement cars that get decent power and mileage.

I personally see no connection of the political movement of environmentalism and Communism. Sure, Gorbachev supports Green Cross International. I think it isn't too fair to base an organization or a person based on a couple of their supporters.
Just my steadily dropping $0.02.

I used to go to the UofU. Had to move on.

Heh, moldy, not even BYU. BYU-Idaho, the fake BYU that thinks it's better than BYU but isn't. On the other hand, despite BYU-I's best efforts, the geology program here is one of the best around, and in that field BYU-I graduates are in high demand (in addition to the high demand that already exists for geologists). A year ago I would have hesitated to say that, because it sounds like I'm plugging for BYU-I, but I've been in the program long enough that I'm convinced it's true. So combine that with free tuition because I have family who is faculty there, and it was a good decision for me. I just have to endure Rexburg, one of the lamest towns ever, and an overabundance of Mormon culture, which irritates me. There's a difference between Mormon culture, and the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, just like there is in any religion. Church schools have a habit of attracting the oddballs, though, that want to live sheltered in the "bubble" of Mormon culture, and can't handle the real world. That's ok, I can graduate in a year and a half, and get out of here. Meanwhile the scenery here (if you drive outside ugly Rexburg) is great.

smittens: The genes thing is partly true, I think, and I've thought that for awhile. Unfortunately it goes both ways. It's partly responsible for extra-hot Mormon girls, and also it's partly responsible for the extra-weirdo Mormons. I married into a first-generation convert family, so as not to shallow my gene pool (my dad is also a convert, so no worries for me). It only accounts for a small percentage of Mormons, but there are about a dozen looks that if I see someone for the first time, not only do I instantly know they're Mormon, but I can also swear I've seen them before, even though I haven't.

Meanwhile, I'd like to form a coherent response on the global warming thing, but I spent my only day off yesterday playing VO. :) So I'll keep reading this thread and putting it together in bits, and post it later. Meanwhile, this is a good article, written by an old-school Democrat. Oh, yes, and also Orson Scott Card is LDS, too.

there are about a dozen looks that if I see someone for the first time, not only do I instantly know they're Mormon, but I can also swear I've seen them before, even though I haven't

So like twins, but even better? Sweet. Too bad they ditched the polygamy thing!

Hehe, one woman is more than enough trouble for any man. And I'm not necessarily talking hot looks.

Don't screw up my nice little idea here! :P

Hooray for Obama!

Ooooh It's gonne be a GREAT convention in Denver. I wanna see BLOOD! (Political metaphor blood, I really don't want riots.)

Better than Christmas.

People who say: "Hooray", shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Hooray for... for.... dammit, there's no one running I can get excited about.