Forums » Off-Topic
a bunch of whiny idiots over in 'general' decided that some how it is horribly off topic to discuss who controls your creations, god forbid. 'little' issues, like, will you be sued in 10 years for using a name you used in a Vendetta mission on a different game, a website, or whatever, because now its 'trademarked' surprise surprise.
ya guys dont get it. your creations become property of guild software, and whoever eventually buys guild software.
The idea that 'guild software isnt going anywhere' is just profoundly ignorant of history. Every company has a beginning ,a middle, and an end, even the british east india company. As much as I love the underdog and this game, that doesn't make me stupid enough to think that Guild will be around 30 years from now as the same 4-5 guys and an intern. If anything catastrophic happens, and it wouldn't take much with only 4 employees, things could change drastically. Look what happened when Incarnate was knocked out a few weeks. Development screeched to a halt. Things happen. Life happens. Things change, people change.
Now, if Guild grows , gets 100 employees, etc, their culture might change too. If they go public, or get taken over, who knows what will happen.
Some of you smart asses think thats a silly idea. Well, go read about what happened to the company that was the granddaddy of the Realtime Strategy game. Westwood Studios. They had a nice setup in Las Vegas. They grew slowly, but eventually had dozens of employees. They fine tuned the RTS genre, with games like Dune and Command and Conquer. Google their history.
EA swooped in one year, bought them out, and decimated the company. They sweet talked one of the founders with a lot of money, and the rest of the company got washed away. No more Vegas, no more independence, and ... coincidentally, no more decent games like Command and Conquer.
Go read what happened to Richard Garriot, the guy who created Ultima, the granddaddy of computer role playing games. The corporate people took over his creation, now he is not even allow to have anything to do with it! Oh, and coincidence, Ultima is hardly around anymore.
its happened dozens of times in this and many other industries, esp 'creative' ones. you should really think about your creations and how you will feel when some slick jerk in a suit tells you you arent allowed to control them anymore. just go read the history of ren and stimpy, or any other 'brand'. think of a movie whose sequel you hated. think of a book that was made into an awful movie. do you want to see that happen to your creation? protect yourself, people! think! be smart! dont be like some dumb 50s singer who gets no royalties while some record company guy gets rich, then uses your song in advertisements to sell something you hate.
excuse me for having a brain and understanding history + intellectual property law. now if someone wants to actually deal with the issue at hand instead of calling me 'off topic' or 'bad mood' or 'troll', please do so. otherwise, who is being rude and disruptive? Who is being the troll if you cannot discuss something as basic as who owns what?
Its a very basic thing, going back to the GPL in the 1980s. Who controls what you create? Who controls your ideas? Who controls your thoughts? Who tells you what will happen with the things you created? Who tells you what they will be used for, and how? Rich people, or you?
ya guys dont get it. your creations become property of guild software, and whoever eventually buys guild software.
The idea that 'guild software isnt going anywhere' is just profoundly ignorant of history. Every company has a beginning ,a middle, and an end, even the british east india company. As much as I love the underdog and this game, that doesn't make me stupid enough to think that Guild will be around 30 years from now as the same 4-5 guys and an intern. If anything catastrophic happens, and it wouldn't take much with only 4 employees, things could change drastically. Look what happened when Incarnate was knocked out a few weeks. Development screeched to a halt. Things happen. Life happens. Things change, people change.
Now, if Guild grows , gets 100 employees, etc, their culture might change too. If they go public, or get taken over, who knows what will happen.
Some of you smart asses think thats a silly idea. Well, go read about what happened to the company that was the granddaddy of the Realtime Strategy game. Westwood Studios. They had a nice setup in Las Vegas. They grew slowly, but eventually had dozens of employees. They fine tuned the RTS genre, with games like Dune and Command and Conquer. Google their history.
EA swooped in one year, bought them out, and decimated the company. They sweet talked one of the founders with a lot of money, and the rest of the company got washed away. No more Vegas, no more independence, and ... coincidentally, no more decent games like Command and Conquer.
Go read what happened to Richard Garriot, the guy who created Ultima, the granddaddy of computer role playing games. The corporate people took over his creation, now he is not even allow to have anything to do with it! Oh, and coincidence, Ultima is hardly around anymore.
its happened dozens of times in this and many other industries, esp 'creative' ones. you should really think about your creations and how you will feel when some slick jerk in a suit tells you you arent allowed to control them anymore. just go read the history of ren and stimpy, or any other 'brand'. think of a movie whose sequel you hated. think of a book that was made into an awful movie. do you want to see that happen to your creation? protect yourself, people! think! be smart! dont be like some dumb 50s singer who gets no royalties while some record company guy gets rich, then uses your song in advertisements to sell something you hate.
excuse me for having a brain and understanding history + intellectual property law. now if someone wants to actually deal with the issue at hand instead of calling me 'off topic' or 'bad mood' or 'troll', please do so. otherwise, who is being rude and disruptive? Who is being the troll if you cannot discuss something as basic as who owns what?
Its a very basic thing, going back to the GPL in the 1980s. Who controls what you create? Who controls your ideas? Who controls your thoughts? Who tells you what will happen with the things you created? Who tells you what they will be used for, and how? Rich people, or you?
Who?
We with J.D.s, of course.
We with J.D.s, of course.
ananzi: We do get it. It might happen. If you're so concerned about your intellectual property, then don't contribute to this game. If you do, then realize that Guild has to protect their own asses as well. They make you sign that so that down the line you can't sue them and say that they're using your intellectual property in a way that you don't want it used. This is their game, they allow us the priviledge of playing it in return for us supporting them financially. That's how business works. Also, sometimes businesses fail, or get taken over. If it were completely safe to run a business, then no one would take risks and we wouldn't have good stuff. Go watch a South Park episode called "Gnomes," you need the lesson in why big business isn't automatically bad just because it's big, and small business isn't automatically good because it's small. Stop whining.
So why is anyone trying to reason with Ananzi the troll?
Ananzi, I was going to steal all your intelectual property but then realized you don't have any, trolling is public domain!
Oh, and if you agree to Guild owning your missions and then put your chara's name on it, then expect that name to be taken away from you.
Ananzi, I was going to steal all your intelectual property but then realized you don't have any, trolling is public domain!
Oh, and if you agree to Guild owning your missions and then put your chara's name on it, then expect that name to be taken away from you.
[Edit again] Sorry Ananzi and everyone, I'd been having one of those days, and came across your thread where the opening line was "a bunch of whiny idiots over in 'general'", and I'll admit I stopped reading there, assuming the worst, and deciding to be mean. Again, sorry, ananzi thanks for contributing something.
smit, he's being coherent, and you're launching an attack against him.
i know its rather difficult for you to comprehend irony, but perhaps you might consider trying.
i know its rather difficult for you to comprehend irony, but perhaps you might consider trying.
The good news is that readers ignorant enough to take this at face value probably wouldn't have the wherewithal to be very innovative anyway.
professor chaos, forgive me if i do not take my life lessons from a talking cartoon turd. and your view of business is not right. the flip side of your black-and-white view is where you get the priviledge of getting customers money in exchange for providing a service to them, therefore all business owners should quit whining about fraud, criminal activity, etc, on the part of their customers. equally ridiculous as what you stated above.
It is entirely possible for people to create different sorts of licenses that are not 'we can do whatever we want, stfu' licenses. It happens all the time. For Example, JK rowling wouldnt sell her rights to movie people unless they allowed her to be involved in the production, for example. She put on rules like the actors all have to be British. By your logic, she should have just shut her mouth, let them have her book, and made it into an american action thriller with jessica simpson and her 52 inch fake breasts giving harry potter a spanking.
All you have to do is tweak it. Put in something like this, if Guild is bought out by a third party company then players content ownership can revert back to them if they so wish it. If Guild sells any non-VG related products, such as movies, books, t-shirts, toys, etc, these items must not use content creators property (storylines, etc) without permission. Simple things. Things to protect artists from exploitation and abuse at the hands of ravenous capitalist douchebags who can corrupt and pervert companies like Guild as soon as they start gaining recognition and money.
It is entirely possible for people to create different sorts of licenses that are not 'we can do whatever we want, stfu' licenses. It happens all the time. For Example, JK rowling wouldnt sell her rights to movie people unless they allowed her to be involved in the production, for example. She put on rules like the actors all have to be British. By your logic, she should have just shut her mouth, let them have her book, and made it into an american action thriller with jessica simpson and her 52 inch fake breasts giving harry potter a spanking.
All you have to do is tweak it. Put in something like this, if Guild is bought out by a third party company then players content ownership can revert back to them if they so wish it. If Guild sells any non-VG related products, such as movies, books, t-shirts, toys, etc, these items must not use content creators property (storylines, etc) without permission. Simple things. Things to protect artists from exploitation and abuse at the hands of ravenous capitalist douchebags who can corrupt and pervert companies like Guild as soon as they start gaining recognition and money.
I hate Harry Potter but I just have to say:
You're comparing your ass to JK Rowling? You really are senile.
Anyway, I remember something similar talked about the EULA. The Devs could've made it so you only have to agree once and that's it but that would cost money to consult a lawyer and get the writing just right. Which costs money, especially if Lecter's your attorney. I would imagine it's a similar situation here.
You're comparing your ass to JK Rowling? You really are senile.
Anyway, I remember something similar talked about the EULA. The Devs could've made it so you only have to agree once and that's it but that would cost money to consult a lawyer and get the writing just right. Which costs money, especially if Lecter's your attorney. I would imagine it's a similar situation here.
no im not comparing my 'ass' to JK rowling, i dont know how you could conclude that from my post. im simply using her as an example of a person who created stuff and protected it from exploitation.
and might i remind you, before she was a billionaire, she was on welfare and her book got rejected 8 or 9 times by different publishers, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter , http://lbarker.orcon.net.nz/howharry.html , http://www.writersservices.com/mag/04/How_not_to%201.htm ) so in fact, yes, every single one of you people are comparable to JK rowling before she got lucky, rich, and famous. in fact, it is that way with a great number of famous authors and artists, they are ordinary people doing ordinary things until some weird things happen and suddenly the are everywhere. and for every one that survives the transition to fame, there are many others who wander off into the darkness and wind up on VH1 'behind the music' talking about the evils of the industry.
It is not an 'unusual' situation, it is almost the standard way things happen. I found another great example, from the old Sierra Online company Dynamix. Perhaps you remember Arctic Fox or other games by them.
http://www.armchairempire.com/Interviews/jeff-tunnell-garagegames.htm
"
Dynamix was an awesome place to work, and I think nearly every ex-Dynamix employee has fond memories of the years we spent there creating awesome products. But, with the very large corporate ownership (by the time we left Vivendi Universal was the owner) demanding more lay-offs and project compromises while showing very little leadership at the very top (note that Vivendi's chairman was finally ousted last year and the pseudo-empire that he built is being torn down and sold), we felt that we had no choice but to strike out on our own.
Two years after we left, Dynamix was closed down by these same corporate raiders. As you can probably tell, I am not a fan of greedy CEO's and big corporations. A couple of individuals at the top of a crumbling empire tore down what Ken Williams and hundreds of impassioned employees built over a fifteen-year period in a manner of months. The employees walked away with unemployment insurance, the CEO's walked with millions in severance. Go figure.
"
and might i remind you, before she was a billionaire, she was on welfare and her book got rejected 8 or 9 times by different publishers, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter , http://lbarker.orcon.net.nz/howharry.html , http://www.writersservices.com/mag/04/How_not_to%201.htm ) so in fact, yes, every single one of you people are comparable to JK rowling before she got lucky, rich, and famous. in fact, it is that way with a great number of famous authors and artists, they are ordinary people doing ordinary things until some weird things happen and suddenly the are everywhere. and for every one that survives the transition to fame, there are many others who wander off into the darkness and wind up on VH1 'behind the music' talking about the evils of the industry.
It is not an 'unusual' situation, it is almost the standard way things happen. I found another great example, from the old Sierra Online company Dynamix. Perhaps you remember Arctic Fox or other games by them.
http://www.armchairempire.com/Interviews/jeff-tunnell-garagegames.htm
"
Dynamix was an awesome place to work, and I think nearly every ex-Dynamix employee has fond memories of the years we spent there creating awesome products. But, with the very large corporate ownership (by the time we left Vivendi Universal was the owner) demanding more lay-offs and project compromises while showing very little leadership at the very top (note that Vivendi's chairman was finally ousted last year and the pseudo-empire that he built is being torn down and sold), we felt that we had no choice but to strike out on our own.
Two years after we left, Dynamix was closed down by these same corporate raiders. As you can probably tell, I am not a fan of greedy CEO's and big corporations. A couple of individuals at the top of a crumbling empire tore down what Ken Williams and hundreds of impassioned employees built over a fifteen-year period in a manner of months. The employees walked away with unemployment insurance, the CEO's walked with millions in severance. Go figure.
"
I 100% agree with everything he is saying here.
Remember, ananzi, this is "catch and release".
ananzi, I'm not going to go into a debate about business practices and economics with you because 1) I don't feel like it, 2) I don't want it to get mean, and 3) It wouldn't do any good, neither of us will change our opinions.
I'll just say that first of all, the South Park episode in question had no talking poo, but presented a very good message in a very humorous way. Actually, your Rowling example is perfect evidence; she went from dirt poor to super rich because of her own creativity. If she wanted to, she could now be that 'evil' business person who buys a small company and puts people out of a job.
By the way, any small business has the option of not taking the money, and not being bought out. If they need the money, then it's because they weren't doing so well, probably their own fault. So who's the one driven by greed, the big business who buys the little guy, or the little guy who sees that wad of cash and takes it? Nothing wrong with buying out the little guy. I know this is a generalisation, and there are exceptions, and shady businessmen, but "big business" isn't universally evil.
Also, I wasn't just saying "stfu," all I was saying is that if you think you're the next J.K. Rowling, and you don't want someone who might buy out Guild to misuse or bury your awesome creativity, then don't contribute. Guild is trying to protect themselves in case you decide to sue them because they used your amazing idea in a way you didn't want, and bring down the company or raise prices for the rest of us. They're protecting themselves from the posibility of frivolous lawsuits that only hurt everyone and are driven by the greed of the individual who files the suit. By the way, they're using the same laws that Rowling uses to protect her intelectual property. If she had sold that property, which is her right to do, then whoever buys it can do whatever they want with it. Kind of like how Michael Crichton sold out, and there hasn't been a halfway decent movie made from his books since the first Jurassic Park (though I haven't seen Timeline).
This is all I will say on the topic. Feel free to flame me if you want, but I will try my best not to respond, though this is very difficult for me. :)
I'll just say that first of all, the South Park episode in question had no talking poo, but presented a very good message in a very humorous way. Actually, your Rowling example is perfect evidence; she went from dirt poor to super rich because of her own creativity. If she wanted to, she could now be that 'evil' business person who buys a small company and puts people out of a job.
By the way, any small business has the option of not taking the money, and not being bought out. If they need the money, then it's because they weren't doing so well, probably their own fault. So who's the one driven by greed, the big business who buys the little guy, or the little guy who sees that wad of cash and takes it? Nothing wrong with buying out the little guy. I know this is a generalisation, and there are exceptions, and shady businessmen, but "big business" isn't universally evil.
Also, I wasn't just saying "stfu," all I was saying is that if you think you're the next J.K. Rowling, and you don't want someone who might buy out Guild to misuse or bury your awesome creativity, then don't contribute. Guild is trying to protect themselves in case you decide to sue them because they used your amazing idea in a way you didn't want, and bring down the company or raise prices for the rest of us. They're protecting themselves from the posibility of frivolous lawsuits that only hurt everyone and are driven by the greed of the individual who files the suit. By the way, they're using the same laws that Rowling uses to protect her intelectual property. If she had sold that property, which is her right to do, then whoever buys it can do whatever they want with it. Kind of like how Michael Crichton sold out, and there hasn't been a halfway decent movie made from his books since the first Jurassic Park (though I haven't seen Timeline).
This is all I will say on the topic. Feel free to flame me if you want, but I will try my best not to respond, though this is very difficult for me. :)
alot of big businesses dont just 'offer money'. they sweet talk, lie, cajole, and manipulate, and then they 'raid' (sell off all assets, go away rich, leave original owners/workers with nothing. also pump out cheap crap, slap known brand label on it, repeat until public gets wise).
anyways , yeah, but the way the license is right now, it doesnt make me wanna make missions. example - even authors retain certain rights when they let a publisher publish their manuscript.
anyways , yeah, but the way the license is right now, it doesnt make me wanna make missions. example - even authors retain certain rights when they let a publisher publish their manuscript.
Hey Jex, Joyce et al. STFU troll... Ananzi actually posts very intelligently mostly. (though sometimes trollish as well)
Get off Ananzi's back... honestly, I don't even think Ananzi deserves to be called troll anymore (if ever).
And, the points he raises are very valid... as are Professor Chaos's replies. Don't contribute if it bothers you.
EDIT:
Oh and Moldy... you can have a nice tall glass of STFU too. Learn to think for yourself instead of just blindly following Jex and Miharu around like a lost puppy.
Get off Ananzi's back... honestly, I don't even think Ananzi deserves to be called troll anymore (if ever).
And, the points he raises are very valid... as are Professor Chaos's replies. Don't contribute if it bothers you.
EDIT:
Oh and Moldy... you can have a nice tall glass of STFU too. Learn to think for yourself instead of just blindly following Jex and Miharu around like a lost puppy.
OK then, so the solution for ananzi is to not make missions. Great! problem solved.
It's good that ananzi can essentially post "Soylent Green Is Made of People!" in here, but I don't plan to know his motives.
Is it an attempt to organize the script-writers into some form of union? To scare away creative players with farfetched scenarios of developer heavy-handedness? To condescendingly ridicule those who decide to (foolishly) spend a little of their free time in creative pursuits without asking for payment in return?
I have no problem doing a little mission-writing when I have a chance, and I don't think that there's any reason why anyone else should avoid doing so. If you expect to be paid for what you do in the forums or by writing misions, then I guess you'd better exercise your creative impulses somewhere else.
It's good that ananzi can essentially post "Soylent Green Is Made of People!" in here, but I don't plan to know his motives.
Is it an attempt to organize the script-writers into some form of union? To scare away creative players with farfetched scenarios of developer heavy-handedness? To condescendingly ridicule those who decide to (foolishly) spend a little of their free time in creative pursuits without asking for payment in return?
I have no problem doing a little mission-writing when I have a chance, and I don't think that there's any reason why anyone else should avoid doing so. If you expect to be paid for what you do in the forums or by writing misions, then I guess you'd better exercise your creative impulses somewhere else.
chillum baba, read the TOS.
lexicon. i dont expect to get payed. mostly i wanted people to discuss the issue using reason and logic.
anyways, i don't think its very smart to give away your creations forever to whoever buys guild 5 years from now. if this game gets 40,000 users, how are you going to feel about your characters and plotlines being 'taken over' by electronic arts?
lexicon. i dont expect to get payed. mostly i wanted people to discuss the issue using reason and logic.
anyways, i don't think its very smart to give away your creations forever to whoever buys guild 5 years from now. if this game gets 40,000 users, how are you going to feel about your characters and plotlines being 'taken over' by electronic arts?
erm... lol... and i'm not so much defending you (though I was) as trying to get 2 notorious busybodies to mind there own damn business (and stop trolling)
EDIT: lol posted while you were editing i guess.
EDIT: and i stand by my post.
EDIT: and i am trying to save moldy's soul.
EDIT: cause of those 3... I actually kinda like him.
EDIT: lol posted while you were editing i guess.
EDIT: and i stand by my post.
EDIT: and i am trying to save moldy's soul.
EDIT: cause of those 3... I actually kinda like him.
Wait. Am I a busybody? And if so, you don't like me? Now I'm sad.
No Lexic/Leber, I was referring to Jex et al. and Moldy. And I like you just fine, despite disagreeing with some of your political, sociological and martial opinions.
EDIT: Oh yeah, musn't forget those pesky ethical ones too.
EDIT: Oh yeah, musn't forget those pesky ethical ones too.