Forums » Off-Topic

Solidarity

Jul 22, 2006 Snax_28 link
My thoughts and heart go out to the people of Lebanon, and their troops, as they prepare to defend against the "measured response" (to quote my own misguided leader) being waged against the innocent civilians of Lebanon (in the name of eradicating Hizbullah).

War crimes are being perpetrated by both Israel and Hizbullah, and I can only hope that all involved will be held accountable.

For any of you who may be Lebanese or Israeli, and/or have friends or family in Lebanon and/or Israel: know that, as a citizen of Canada, my wishes are with you and your own, and that the positions and opinions of our minority Prime Minister in no way reflect the views of the majority of Canadians, let alone my own.

May you find a peaceful place for your's and your own. Safe travels.
Jul 25, 2006 Klabbath link
I note that your heart doesn't go out to the families of the two soldiers kidnapped by Hezbollah. Apparently they aren't worth your sympathy, respect, or defense.

Boy that's sad.

Oh, and if your prime minister is in the minority, how, exactly, did he get elected? Doesn't that require a majority?

My thoughts and heart will go out to the people of Lebanon and their troops when they start turning terrorists over to the authorities for prosecution. As long as they hide people that oh-so-cleverly plant bombs in nightclubs filled with Jewish teens I will consider them to be aiding and abetting. Every time some terrorist detonates a bomb and kills a Jewish kid, no one bats an eye, but the instant Israel decides to defend themselves, the nutbags get all up in arms. Why is it you never shed tears for a dead Jewish child like you do for dead muslim ones?

Never mind. I already know. It says a lot about you, and none of it is complimentary.

~D.
"Nigel"
Jul 25, 2006 Snax_28 link
You'll notice my heart also did not go out to the Palistinian members of parlaiment kidnapped by the Isrealis, nor the Isrealis kidnapped by the Palistinians, nor the entire Palistinian state who have been dealing with occupation and displacement since 1948 when their homeland was pulled out from under their feet. Nor am I sending my best wishes out to those who day in and day out experience conditions often likened to the Warsaw Ghetto, perpetrated by the descendants of those same people who inhabited that horrible place.

Two soldiers, kidnapped by a militant group who has a history of conflict with the Zionist state, do not warrant a complete and total anihilation of a societie's infrastructure who, having only recently even begun to regain some control over their country after decades of internal and external conflict, haven't the means to control the most organized and powerful islamic militant group in the middle east. Most who pay attention realize that it is Iran who controls Hizbullah, not Lebanon.

Keep your politics to yourself Klabbath, I don't care for another go around with you. Also, if you are going to attempt to attack me on local political affairs, educate yourself first on how things work up here before you speak up.

This thread is intended to express solidarity with any who might have friends or family in either Isreal of the Middle East. Not for some pro-Zionist American to piss all over the Christian, Muslim, and however many other religious groups of Arabs that are living in the middle east in and around Isreal.

Gavan
Jul 25, 2006 Klabbath link
First off, Gav, I don't want another go around with you, either. I wasn't even aware that you and Snax_28 were the same person. (Why the hell DO you have two accounts?) And why did you feel it necessary to inject YOUR personal politics into this message board? Didn't we agree to stop doing that?

Second, I'm not talking politics, I'm talking HUMANITY. I'm talking about atrocities that are committed constantly by muslims, who have a 4,000 year old history of not getting along with their neighbors. Look up the Crusades some time. You might be surprised to discover that they were a DEFENSIVE conflict on the part of the Christians. When you're done with that, look up the 1947 violation by seven arabic countries of the treaty that they willingly signed to give lands to Israel. THAT is why the Jews had to displace some of those poor Palestinians: they were lied to and their treaties were ignored. Twelve muslim countries pledged to support the creation of a Jewish state. FIVE kept their word. The other seven immediately declared war on Israel. It makes less sense than the Serco/Itani conflict, but at least in THAT one the dead respawn a few seconds later.

Hey, maybe instead of buying solid silver Audis and gold faucet taps, some of those rich shieks could use a little oil wealth to PURCHASE new lands instead of committing atrocities. What a concept. They could end this waste of life TOMORROW if they chose.

I could care less about your personal politics. Didn't we already agree to keep them off the board? I am not pleased to see, however, that the idea of kidnapping two nineteen year old kids doesn't immediately light off your pissed-offness. That should anger you just as much, but it doesn't for some reason.

I get it. They are tools of the Zionist state. As such, they are less than human and deserve to be tortured and beheaded. It's the same argument that muslims have been using for four millennia. You're not really that way, are you, Gav? Not from what I've seen of you, at any rate.

Third, I didn't start this discussion, Gav. YOU did. I simply responded. If you'll recall from our last talk, I'm not going out of my way to interject my politics into this board. However when someone completely disregards the kidnapping that STARTED this mess, and tries to pin the blame for everything that has happened in the last several weeks solely on the people fighting BACK, well, it leaves me a little stunned.

Fourth, I'll happily admit that you might know more about your local politics than I do. What you mistake for ignorance on my part is actually a complete lack of interest. As long as Canada keeps their borders secure and prevents muslim terrorists from sneaking weapons-grade explosives into my country through the Great Lakes ports, I don't particularly CARE what you do up there. Make everyone wear pink if you choose.

I want to get along with you, Gav. You and I are a lot more alike than you might think. However if *I* am going to back off from injecting my personal politics into this message board, then I ask that you do the same. Can we find another topic? Seen any good movies lately? Read anything fun? When does the CFL start their games, and can you explain their weird-ass motion rules to me? (Nine years coaching American football and I still can't figure out what the deal is with Canadian rules.)

No more arguing, Gav. Let's BOTH keep our politics off this board. The other option is for me to leave Vendetta. Realistically, one of us is going to have to go if we can't find a way to get along, and you were here first. I'd rather stay, but we need to stop bringing our differences into this place.

Your call, man.

~D.
Jul 25, 2006 Snax_28 link
War crimes are being perpetrated by both Israel and Hizbullah, and I can only hope that all involved will be held accountable.

Over 300 Lebonese civilians have been murdered and the majority of the country's infrastructure has been raised in Isreali airstrikes that anybody who has half a political brain can see were not aimed to secure the release of their captured soldiers. They were aimed to put pressure upon the Lebonese government to step up efforts to contain and control Hizbullah. Isreal even admitted this. If Isreal's goal was to secure the release of their soldiers, then why would they be bombing the very places where they may have been being held? This is considered a war crime.

War crimes are being perpetrated by both Israel and Hizbullah, and I can only hope that all involved will be held accountable.

I have never stated that I thought that the Isreali soldiers deserved to die, let alone become victims of an extremist militant combat units kidnapping plot. I merely expressed solidarity with the people of Lebanon, and to a lesser extent the people of Isreal who are paying the price of this conflict. And if by insinuating I have no humanity simply because I choose to focus on one issue, then you my friend are no better by claiming that the Isrealis are the only ones worthy of your humanity.

And as far as my injecting politics into the forum, this is the off topic forum. If I wish to state my opinions concerning the claims of my prime minister, and express best wishes for the very people who are paying the ultimate price, then I may do so. I did not damn any party unilaterally. I didn't even refer to the Palestinian issue until you did.

And what "treaty" are you referring to? The UN Partition Plan, which none of the Arab states in question voted for? Regardless, this is not an issue that I am going to argue over with you. But I will provide you the following sources so if you so wish you may balance your knowledge concerning this issue:

http://electronicintifada.net/

http://www.haaretz.com/

I Saw Ramallah by Mourid Barghouti

Anything by Edward Said

Try to read them with an open mind, especially the last two. They have more humanity, intelligence, and actual knowledge of the facts than either of us.
Jul 25, 2006 moldyman link
I agree with Gavan.

Israel, in my view for as long as I have lived, has been over aggressive, retaliating with uneven force. They invade other countries at their own whim and defy their soveirgnty. And one wonders why the terrorists keep attacking, claiming that "the Zionists are invading our homes!" Because they are.

Gavan is correct on the U.N. Partition Treaty. It is Screwup #1 from an organization that has done little but aid starving people and give medical support. This is good, but I do not believe they should pretend that they have an real power in a nation's decisions, such as America's entering Iraq proved. Anyway, the native Arabs lived in the land of Palestine, outnumbering the Jews that settled there. But the UN gave them the land anyway, without any real authority. And now, we have the situation at hand, resentful Arabs who want their land back and Isrealis who want a unified home and are zealous in keeping it.

War crimes are perpetuated on both sides. As Gavan said, though, Lebanon now barely has control over the matters in it's borders. If Israel truly wanted to rid Lebanon of terrorists and rescue their soldiers, they would not invade. There are such things as precision strikes and "unilateral action", a UN term. Aiding and abetting is Afghanistan and the Taliban, not Lebanon and a rickety governing body.
Jul 25, 2006 Snax_28 link
Update:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/25/un-lebanon.html

"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN observer post in southern Lebanon that has killed two UN military observers, with two more feared dead," Annan said from Rome.
Jul 25, 2006 Klabbath link
You know, Gav, it's a little two-faced to demand that I keep my politics to myself, using as a justification for your own political post the fact that this thread is in the off-topic forum. Wasn't MY post, in this very thread, also in the off-topic forum?

The very fact that you brought up the subject is political, and we both know that, else why did you make such a point of not mentioning the OTHER side of the conflict? Please don't play a semantics game. Either refrain from posting your political agenda, or accept the fact that when you do, if it differs from mine I will post in reply. I kept my end of the promise, Gav. I haven't posted a single even remotely political comment since I chatted with you last. Hell, I probably wouldn't have replied publicly to you at all if I had known that you were using an alias, out of respect for you, if not for your position.

Israel has maintained, for fifty-nine years, that they consider one apple to be worth a barrel of apples. Meaning that if you attack and kill one of their citizens (apples), they will reply with force seemingly out of measure (as if you destroyed a barrel of apples). This is not surprising. They are one country surrounded and outnumbered by enemies on all sides. If they played a nice-nice cops and robbers game in search of the kidnappers, they would fail. They would ALSO appear weak, and there is no better way to encourage these animals than to give the appearance of not being willing to defend yourself. Israel IS willing to defend itself from terrorists.

You have obviously never defended yourself or a loved one in a street fight, Gavan. I hope you never have to, but if you do, please, my friend, don't fight like you think Israel should. Fight to kill until the threat to your life is gone.

The only thing that has kept even a remote lid on the terrorism of islamic militants in the last twenty years is the knowledge that Israel obliterated the ENTIRE ARAB NATION in less than a week during the Six Days' war. Most terrorist leaders have learned how to use just the right amount of violence: enough to slaughter more than twenty times the civilians over the last five years than Israel has killed in this conflict. Bombs in schoolyards, in temples, outside nightclubs... you've read the papers, you know the tactics they use. Terrorist leaders have learned that when you make death an every day occurrance it only makes the front page when the group you're chipping away at suddenly FIGHTS BACK. Then THEY are the bad guy.

The terrorists of the middle east are quite adept at using our own morals against us. They hide weapons caches in schoolyards and then scream quite loudly when innocent kids are killed when those weapons are destroyed. They snipe from mosques, and then point fingers at everyone else when someone shoots back and that "holy place" is damaged. (Is it the blood that was shed 2000 years ago that makes it holy, or the blood you're shedding from it now? I forget.)

Israel was created by mandate of the United Nations. The same United Nations that muslim terrorists turn to for support every time one of their cleverly hidden weapon stores is detonated in a schoolyard. Either it was a tool of the Zionists to destroy their homeland, or it's their saving grace, but I'm not really sure why they seem to demand that it be both.

I have no respect for terrorists. In point of fact, I freely admit to a certain racism: I neither respect nor have tolerance for the islamic faith. My one saving grace on the subject is that I have nearly as little respect for the Christian one. I happen to be an atheist, and the idea of killing a child because some God says so turns my stomach. Some folk love to point to the evils of the Christian Inquisition and how misguided and horrible Christians are, yet the evils that were performed LAST NIGHT slip right by them.

Christians are bad because they did something 600 years ago, but muslims are justified in any atrocity they commit today because... er... why was that again?

Not one islamic religious leader issued a condemnation of the murder of Paul Johnson, or the CARE director that was butchered two years ago. Not one islamic religious leader issued a condemnation of the events of September 11th. I still haven't hard any condemnation for the brutal torture and murders of my fellow servicemembers just two weeks ago. Hell, Van Gogh's decendent was gunned down for directing a movie about muslim brutality towards women, the killer looked his mother in the eyes and said, "I don't feel your pain," and not ONE islamic religious leader had a single word to say on the subject.

While I'm typing this, someone is either performing funeral rites, bleeding to death, or sobbing over the body of a loved one killed by an islamic militant. A person is robbed in New York City every 58 minutes. An unverifiable source once stated that a person was injured by islamic terrorism every 102 minutes. I'd love to see that confirmed, but haven't had the time to research it. So, no, I don't really blame Israel for fighting back. Sooner or later islamic terrorists are going to learn that bombs in schoolyards don't work, and maybe they'll try talking instead.

I respect you, Gav, and for some strange reason, I like you. Maybe it's because you have the balls to sound off when you see something you don't agree with. I don't know why, but I have this bizarre feeling that if the two of us could stop talking about politics we'd probably become good friends. Out of respect for you, my friend, I will look into your sources of material. YOUR assignment, however, is to determine the number of civilians killed in Israel over the last twenty four months by terrorists. (and if you could find the source of that quote I'd be indebted.)

It's a lot more than three hundred.

Now, would you freaking tell me how many men can be in motion before the snap in a CFL football game? Every time I watch it looks like the whole damn backfield is jumping around like a frog on a hot rock. WTF?

By the way, I have an on-topic message for you in the General folder if you have a moment to sound off on it. Botting has developed several bad habits in my combat flying and I'd like to see if I can break them, but everything I try seems to work LESS effectively than the things I learned botting.

Thanks;

~D.
Jul 25, 2006 Snax_28 link
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Klabbath I'm done talking politics to you period. You can't even seem to get things straight (here's your assignment: go reread my first post and see if you can count the times I claim Hizbullah is committing war crimes, and how many times I send my wishes out to people with friends and family in Isreal).

Good luck, and happy whatever it is you do.
Jul 25, 2006 sarahanne link
one ACME padlock.

If momerath chooses to comment on this he has those awesome dev powers to post in spite of the lock.