This is what I wonder, all, where does the difference between griefing and pirating lay? I fully understand pirating, and actually have no problem with it... But it doesn't make sense for someone to blow your ship up to do it, without any warning.

For a pirate to shoot first, blow the heck out of you with no warning, then later say: Oh, I was pirating you!

Well, actually, it darn well looks like griefing to me. A pirate says 'heave to and drop yer cargo, arr!'... A griefer blows the crap out of you and snickers at you for being a ''n00b'', when you say 'Hey, What was THAT'.

I found Vendetta and thought it would be fun to help the Devs beta test it. Unfortunately, it's not like you can get far these days, with everyone and their mother shooting at you, with no cause.

Rion Wulfe
*Sick to death of griefing and bad additudes*

From a defender's point of view, there is no line between griefing and pirating. The guy is trying to kill you, his motives don't matter. Right now, piracy is nonexistent. Money is floating around in the millions and no one needs someone else's cargo. So, it is pretty safe to say that there are no pirates out there.

Griefers abound, however. But let's not class everyone who is not a pirate that goes around shooting others as a griefer. This is a space combat sim, and what do you do, if not fight? I would term those who pick on those who barely grasp the fundamentals of the game as griefers. Newb-killers are griefers, those who attack more able pilots are not, in my opinion.

You just outlined the difference yourself. Problem is, those who care are vastly outweighed by those who don't, and nothing's been done to curb the behavior for months. 3.4 will bring a reputation system and that's supposed to solve it, but I doubt it will until the system gets balanced, and penalties are instated.

It's not newb-killer==Griefer, it's players-who-really-suck-badly-at-vendetta-killer==Griefer

To me griefing is the repeated killing of a newbie who is in a bus. However, there have been past instances where people try to hide this by jumping into a bus after they've docked with a better ship. For example this one time in sector 5, I was chasing a Marauder down that just barely made it alive into the docks of the outpost station. The pilot refused to dump his cargo and just made a run for it in the station. No problem, right? Well the next thing I know he gets out in a bus and starts shooting at me. I kill him obviously. Then he starts shouting stuff like how I'm a griefer n00b bus killer blah blah blah, even though he has a Marauder tucked safely inside the station. Being as stubborn as I am, I was not about to let him get away with his Marauder in this station without a fight.

So basically... everything goes in this game. Your intentions don't really matter. You have the option of roleplaying a character that has extreme prejudice towards a particular nation. As long as you don't make things personal. So if you see a red dot in your radar, you have the option of attacking that individual without cause. That's what the game boils down to, without any rules to limit you. They're red for a reason, people!! They're not obligated to follow any unofficial rules set by anyone. Granted yes, it's common courtesy not to fire upon a bus piloted by some newbie, but for the most part the current version of Vendetta Test gives us the freedom to do whatever we want.

Bravo, Arolte, you summed it up quite nicely!

Are you anti-red, Arolte? RACIST!

Arolte *is* red currently I think... and he's talking about your radar, not team.

I know :P

I guess in theory, a "true" pirate is far more concerned about getting his damned cargo than killing somebody. Hell, I bet a lot of pirates wouldn't want to kill, especially if and when the reputation system is in effect. A pirate that kills is worse than a pirate that don't.

In practice, most pirates will blow a victim away without giving a rat's ass about cargo. Which is a damned shame.

I guess that is why you chase 0-score busses going from 4... right.

Most pirates in real life burned down the ship they looted from. So I don't see how a "real pirate" would involve simply taking cargo. Hmmm...

"Most pirates in real life burned down the ship
they looted from. So I don't see how a "real pirate"
would involve simply taking cargo. Hmmm..."

Yes, but their real intention is to make a lot of money off of the loot they stole. Killing their ship is optional :), but I guess thats the reason why people hate pirates so much.

They probably burned the ships to prevent some sort of retaliation. Besides, dead men tell no tales. Since ships and lives are renewable in Vendetta, that's kinda moot.

Hmmm... that's one of many theories. If they wanted to prevent retaliation, they could've simply dumped all the cannons and cannonballs into the ocean, or steal 'em for thier own ship. And the time it would've taken for the victim crew to reach another person to report the act of piracy, those pirates would've been long gone. Pirates in general were not a friendly bunch. They lied, they murdered, and they stole for fun. If there was ever an honest pirate, it would be the ultimate oxymoron.

The point I'm trying to make here is that they're relentless and vicious people out there in life who do these kinds of things for personal gain. Pirates would be probably be one of the best examples. For as big of the Vendetta universe is going to be, it's pretty much inevitable (and true to life) that such people will exist. People who have a lust for blood and money. If somebody wants to destroy a ship they've just pirated from, by all means they are free to do so without any obligations.

So, Rion Wulfe, to recap...a pirate/griefer is, potentially, every red dot on your radar (and some of the green ones).

Pirate is not interchangeable with the term griefer. Bad, RelayeR. Bad boy!!

Arolte, from the last several times I've played, and from what I hear/read, they ARE interchangeable in the Vendetta universe.

Pirates kills for cargo, griefers kills for the hell of it.

It's not so confusing. People other than griefers shoot tri-flairs, people other than griefers use lmines, people other than griefers pirate. People who are griefers do all these things as well. It's not these actions that make you a griefer, its intention combined with results.

A necsessity for a true pirate is that they must live off their take, not moneybugs. A pirate's best interest is to let you live if you jettison and blow you away if you don't.

If you jettison and they kill you its prolly a griefer. A pirate would let you live to encourage you to give up easy next time he comes around. Saves you a ship and the pirate precious money on ammo. As well as saving him the risk of being killed by a trader (how embarrasing). If you run he must kill you to encourage future traders to jettison and keep thier ship.

He also risks less retaliation if he just takes cargo. Again something money bug griefers don't care about.