Forums » Role Playing
I log in about 3-4 times a day since I resubbed.. which has been about a week or so now. Your numbers wouldn't surprise me. Since I only really care about combat these days, I therefore only care about actually interacting with people in sector. Most of the people on your buddy lists are likely newbs who are trying to level up or more experienced players pursuing some PvE activities or mining in isolation, or also, in many cases, AFK people. Spread out 22 players amongst ~7000 sectors and you get ~.0031 players per sector.
I don't trust the graph provided by GS because it specifically has excluded any way of determining overall population (which I'm guessing was an attempt to prevent people from figuring out early on how empty the game was), despite people's various efforts to gleam it.
I tell it like I see it man. If I have to consistently fly around grey for 30 minutes to an hour or longer before I run into another living soul, the game is empty as far as I'm concerned.
I don't trust the graph provided by GS because it specifically has excluded any way of determining overall population (which I'm guessing was an attempt to prevent people from figuring out early on how empty the game was), despite people's various efforts to gleam it.
I tell it like I see it man. If I have to consistently fly around grey for 30 minutes to an hour or longer before I run into another living soul, the game is empty as far as I'm concerned.
"Spread out 22 players amongst ~7000 sectors and you get ~.0031 players per sector."
It's hard to know where to begin with this. A modicum of scientific sensibility should illuminate the folly inherent in trying to arrive at a player per sector density based on Luxen's personal buddy list.
One of my favorite things to do if I feel VO's player count is too low is to tell people about it. I enjoy telling people about it anyway. Ever so often someone, sometimes in an authoritative position, will make a statement like "The genre has remained stagnant since the release of Freespace 2 almost 15 years ago, and I’ll fight anyone who says there’s been a good space combat game released since then, because they’re dead wrong". That's usually a good opportunity to testify.
It's hard to know where to begin with this. A modicum of scientific sensibility should illuminate the folly inherent in trying to arrive at a player per sector density based on Luxen's personal buddy list.
One of my favorite things to do if I feel VO's player count is too low is to tell people about it. I enjoy telling people about it anyway. Ever so often someone, sometimes in an authoritative position, will make a statement like "The genre has remained stagnant since the release of Freespace 2 almost 15 years ago, and I’ll fight anyone who says there’s been a good space combat game released since then, because they’re dead wrong". That's usually a good opportunity to testify.
Your right; most of my list is filled with newer pilots, like i said - most pvp ready pilots are a tad wary of buddying people, since it *could* be used to gain information about them. Others dont give a crap like me, and go full on into things. And then there are those just too lazy to respond. Like phaserlight said, its just a buddy list; hardly a good source for estimation. Also, i've only seen you maybe twice in the time i was doing duel wars, and i never did get a duel outta you. This evening, perhaps? If you want pvp and i'm not otherwise preoccupied, im game, no matter who you are. And, nahh, its pretty rare im busy for longer than 5 minutes to chat in [1]; i save my missions for the quiet nights.
Phaserlight your Pro-VO propaganda isn't necessary here -- you won't change any minds in this thread. It is not my responsibility to advocate for this game in gaming communities.
You are misjudging my intentions, greenwall; I'm not trying to change minds here or suggest you should engage in propaganda. My main intent was to highlight that using Luxen's buddy list to calculate player per sector density isn't a good way to do science.
I initially left it at that, then thought that perhaps I could be additionally helpful by suggesting an avenue in which to act. Apparently, my suggestion didn't go over well.
Anyhow, so SWAPMEET!
I initially left it at that, then thought that perhaps I could be additionally helpful by suggesting an avenue in which to act. Apparently, my suggestion didn't go over well.
Anyhow, so SWAPMEET!
Well perhaps you misjudged my analysis of Luxen's claims as an attempt at being scientific. It's impossible to be *scientific* when you are restricted from accessing the necessary data. The only other option is to offer subjective analysis based on personal observation and comparison with past experience.
Incarnate's previous assertion of "10,000 new users per month" is another example of trying to make it seem like there are "a lot" of people playing when in reality, when it comes down to actual retention / actual active players doing actual things other than shoot blasters in a training sector for 10 minutes... it's a MUCH quieter universe, now more than I have ever seen before.
The point being (getting back on topic) is that neither TGFT, nor anyone else should really worry about spybots -- you can fly around all you want the majority of the time in grayspace and elsewhere without any worry of danger because there is generally nobody around to threaten you.
Incarnate's previous assertion of "10,000 new users per month" is another example of trying to make it seem like there are "a lot" of people playing when in reality, when it comes down to actual retention / actual active players doing actual things other than shoot blasters in a training sector for 10 minutes... it's a MUCH quieter universe, now more than I have ever seen before.
The point being (getting back on topic) is that neither TGFT, nor anyone else should really worry about spybots -- you can fly around all you want the majority of the time in grayspace and elsewhere without any worry of danger because there is generally nobody around to threaten you.
Roleplay of the century!
Roleplaying as people talking about video game that they suck at roleplaying in?
Roleplaying as people talking about video game that they suck at roleplaying in?
Yeah, you are right man, Ecka getting drunk and accusing all my alts of being Wes really is not that good RP is it? Especially because my alts can usually hold their own and Wes just plain ol sucks.
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I suppose someone should point out the irony of this entire thread? The guild of free spybots who park them all over the universe including but not limited to Latos, Dau, Bractus, Pelatus, Verasi, Nyrius etc are complaining about a shop bot that actually sells things and does not just tie up the sector for the sake of spying? Never mind all the newbs they convert into mobile spybots via the use of TGFT_Utils. Wow Ecka, no wonder they kicked yo ass off the top spot, you are losing it mate.
As for the person saying TGFT only use their spybots for good... LOL, you do know this guild is affiliated with and possibly runs VOID right? You think they would not share location info with the likes of Sieger? You would be wrong.
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I suppose someone should point out the irony of this entire thread? The guild of free spybots who park them all over the universe including but not limited to Latos, Dau, Bractus, Pelatus, Verasi, Nyrius etc are complaining about a shop bot that actually sells things and does not just tie up the sector for the sake of spying? Never mind all the newbs they convert into mobile spybots via the use of TGFT_Utils. Wow Ecka, no wonder they kicked yo ass off the top spot, you are losing it mate.
As for the person saying TGFT only use their spybots for good... LOL, you do know this guild is affiliated with and possibly runs VOID right? You think they would not share location info with the likes of Sieger? You would be wrong.
Being in VOID, I can confirm that none of our ACTIVE members have access to TGFT spy tech or benefit from it in any way. Before you lash out about Sieger using such tech., he hasn't been seen in-game for quite some time.
I am not implying that TGFT could only be using it for good, not having known prior to my reply of H.Hornblower's accusation of TGFT using it to access account information.
And no, TGFT doesn't "Run" VOID.
I am not implying that TGFT could only be using it for good, not having known prior to my reply of H.Hornblower's accusation of TGFT using it to access account information.
And no, TGFT doesn't "Run" VOID.
I did say possibly and people like. So before you get all fixated on Sieger, it was just a name-drop as an example. There are plenty of asshats that have access to this info too, I know I do.
Oh and just so we are clear, they cannot access account information; this bit is a bit of an exaggeration. You can kind of see why people were lead to this belief, but is simply not possible. The account expiration is sent during login so the client knows whether to prompt with the "Your subscription has less than 1 day left", it is not used to decide whether or not you can log in or not, that is all server-side. Anywho, apart from login name, and character names (and the obvious buddy list, guild list etc) there is no other account information available via Lua as it is not available to the client.
You can see why them braggin about having the above info may lead a few to think they can get more, but they cannot. Just thought I would clear that bit up as it is buried behind a wall of text.
Oh and just so we are clear, they cannot access account information; this bit is a bit of an exaggeration. You can kind of see why people were lead to this belief, but is simply not possible. The account expiration is sent during login so the client knows whether to prompt with the "Your subscription has less than 1 day left", it is not used to decide whether or not you can log in or not, that is all server-side. Anywho, apart from login name, and character names (and the obvious buddy list, guild list etc) there is no other account information available via Lua as it is not available to the client.
You can see why them braggin about having the above info may lead a few to think they can get more, but they cannot. Just thought I would clear that bit up as it is buried behind a wall of text.
Since i only really care about combat these days
/me leans back
/me leans back
I don't think I've ever even seen "TGFT Spy-tech" before. Though if it exists I likely have. I can surely tell you now that we in VOID only take VOID-certified Spy-tech made in VOID factorys.
How can you kill that which has no life?
~Johnny doesn't sign his posts but it felt appropriate today.
How can you kill that which has no life?
~Johnny doesn't sign his posts but it felt appropriate today.
"[group of people] only use [something] for [good/evil/turtles]"
Get ANY group of people large enough and that group will include nefarious types who can, and will, exploit any advantage they can. It matters not if it's just a buddy list, or a full blown report of your account details.
The in-game population is irrelevant. I might be the only other pilot in space, but that doesn't mean I want the other pilot to know where I am, who I'm with, or what colour underwear I may or may not be wearing. However, I DO sit in a station a lot, and rarely see zero activity either in 100 or the station I happen to be docked in. Maybe folks are using TGFT Utils to avoid you, Wally?
TGFT produced data-mining plugins DO exist (and I assume non-TGFT produced ones exist as well). People use them (TGFT and non-TGFT alike). If someone chooses to delude themselves that these are not FACTS, then I have a bridge they oughta buy...
As for spy-bots, they've been a part of VO at least as long as I have. While GS allow them, we gotta live with them. They ain't leaving anytime soon.
Spy-bots are here to stay. Install plugins at your own risk. Nuff said.
Get ANY group of people large enough and that group will include nefarious types who can, and will, exploit any advantage they can. It matters not if it's just a buddy list, or a full blown report of your account details.
The in-game population is irrelevant. I might be the only other pilot in space, but that doesn't mean I want the other pilot to know where I am, who I'm with, or what colour underwear I may or may not be wearing. However, I DO sit in a station a lot, and rarely see zero activity either in 100 or the station I happen to be docked in. Maybe folks are using TGFT Utils to avoid you, Wally?
TGFT produced data-mining plugins DO exist (and I assume non-TGFT produced ones exist as well). People use them (TGFT and non-TGFT alike). If someone chooses to delude themselves that these are not FACTS, then I have a bridge they oughta buy...
As for spy-bots, they've been a part of VO at least as long as I have. While GS allow them, we gotta live with them. They ain't leaving anytime soon.
Spy-bots are here to stay. Install plugins at your own risk. Nuff said.
You are right Faille of course, Like I stated earlier, I even had some form of data mining addon that worked before the Lua API was opened, as I am sure any guild worth its salt has. The difference being that we didn't peddle them as trade assistant plugins that only helped with trade data. If a pirate guild had done this I am pretty sure the community would have been up-in-arms about it, but because it is a "trusted" guild, one of the "good guys" people actually defended their actions! (and they still do, check out this quote! Its not about who has the most spotters, it's about what they are used for. One side uses it to easily grief the people being spotted, the other uses it to avoid meeting such a griefer. LOL)
Heck, some of the newer players who maybe do not visit these great forums even still say that this is all made up and that TGFT can do no wrong and gladly use this plugin (then they cry when I find them mining in hornets in empty sectors, but that is another story). So saying "install at your own risk" is fine, but only if you understand the risks in the first place. If as Ecka said they only used their plugin to determine alts in TGFT then why not only force TGFT members to install it? Why go public?
Anyway, I just find the whole thing quite funny. Ecka crying about spybots? LOL? I know I must seem bent up out of shape, as the great wally put it, but really it just shows me how dumb most people are. Sheep, some would say. The Guild of Free Traders? Sure, as long as you are in TGFT it's fine (as tumblemonster found out). Free trade for anyone else? Bah, may as well join the dark side. At least a pirate is free YARR!
Heck, some of the newer players who maybe do not visit these great forums even still say that this is all made up and that TGFT can do no wrong and gladly use this plugin (then they cry when I find them mining in hornets in empty sectors, but that is another story). So saying "install at your own risk" is fine, but only if you understand the risks in the first place. If as Ecka said they only used their plugin to determine alts in TGFT then why not only force TGFT members to install it? Why go public?
Anyway, I just find the whole thing quite funny. Ecka crying about spybots? LOL? I know I must seem bent up out of shape, as the great wally put it, but really it just shows me how dumb most people are. Sheep, some would say. The Guild of Free Traders? Sure, as long as you are in TGFT it's fine (as tumblemonster found out). Free trade for anyone else? Bah, may as well join the dark side. At least a pirate is free YARR!
They have worded it very carefully, but this is from the voupr plugin page: Collects and transmits data on sectors, players that you encounter and price data for items in stations. Data translated is not anonymous and will provide information about your location and those around you to TGFT. Analysis of this data could reveal sensitive details about your characters movements, travel companions, and be used to identify alternate characters. -- and people wonder how the hell I find them in empty sectors, thanks for the info TGFT!...lol
This is actually wording that I suggested when their use of the trade utils plugin for spying was made public. What they were doing could have been considered illegal and I suggested the disclaimer as a way to warn pilots about the implications of using the plugin.
I believe they have also turned off the network reporting by default and made it an opt-in feature, but this may be out of date now.
Relevant thread
TGFT updates disclaimer
This is actually wording that I suggested when their use of the trade utils plugin for spying was made public. What they were doing could have been considered illegal and I suggested the disclaimer as a way to warn pilots about the implications of using the plugin.
I believe they have also turned off the network reporting by default and made it an opt-in feature, but this may be out of date now.
Relevant thread
TGFT updates disclaimer
Ah, they released a clean version of the plugin, with all network features disabled, which is basically what TA is (local data only). This feature was not turned off, nor can it be disabled on the main tgft_utils plugin.
http://www.voupr.com/plugin.php?name=tgft_utilities_secured
Anyway, this thread isn't really about tgft_utils, it is more about the irony of Ecka calling out spybots. Which you have gotta admit, is pretty damned ironic, dontchya think? ITS LIKE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINING MEN!
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Just a FYI for the VOID guys, some of you know I've been in VOID like 3 times now? The second time I was asked to install TCTF2, which is TGFT spy tech (I found it highly amusing when I was told a list of my alts, alts that everyone knows about). Also I do not really care what you guys say, the proof is not just in the pudding but in the eating too. You guys are in a guild started by Blaqk that had both Sieger and Greenwall as prominent members and I also happen to 100% know that certain TGFT members had highly regarded alts among the ranks (this might not be the case now, but it was). If you are fine being affiliated with the above that is great, but then you have also got to accept that anything you say can and will be taken with a pinch of salty tears. Newbs.
http://www.voupr.com/plugin.php?name=tgft_utilities_secured
Anyway, this thread isn't really about tgft_utils, it is more about the irony of Ecka calling out spybots. Which you have gotta admit, is pretty damned ironic, dontchya think? ITS LIKE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINING MEN!
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Just a FYI for the VOID guys, some of you know I've been in VOID like 3 times now? The second time I was asked to install TCTF2, which is TGFT spy tech (I found it highly amusing when I was told a list of my alts, alts that everyone knows about). Also I do not really care what you guys say, the proof is not just in the pudding but in the eating too. You guys are in a guild started by Blaqk that had both Sieger and Greenwall as prominent members and I also happen to 100% know that certain TGFT members had highly regarded alts among the ranks (this might not be the case now, but it was). If you are fine being affiliated with the above that is great, but then you have also got to accept that anything you say can and will be taken with a pinch of salty tears. Newbs.
The second time I was asked to install TCTF2
Lie detected!
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Bitter resentment and paranoia are burdens not worth their weight.
Lie detected!
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Bitter resentment and paranoia are burdens not worth their weight.
The most amazing thing about VO is undoubtedly how long certain personal feuds have persisted.
Most amazing or most crippling?
Nothing stopping it from being both, but I feel like as a contender for "most crippling" it will have some stiff competition from a decade-plus of very little progress on the content front.