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Why on earth does everyone keep saying pirates should have to have KoS with their home faction? The Serco are practically pirates already, and why tf should the Itani care about what I do in Sedina if they already liked me and I shoot the CtC bots for them? UIT should only care about it if you harass their pilots in their space - everything else should be like, I've heard you have a shady background but as long as you can get the job done I don't really care. I'm not saying pirates can't be KoS - many are and many like to be; but it shouldn't ever be a requirement for anything. That would just be plain silly.
This started off as a response to the pirate station thread in suggestions, but then I thought it was sounding more RPish, but now it sounds more like a suggestion again. In any case, discuss away (+1 and -1 to your heart's content). I'll be glad to offer rebuttal to all of your silly counterarguments.
This started off as a response to the pirate station thread in suggestions, but then I thought it was sounding more RPish, but now it sounds more like a suggestion again. In any case, discuss away (+1 and -1 to your heart's content). I'll be glad to offer rebuttal to all of your silly counterarguments.
RP whatever you like, but this is essentially the same as saying "Itani should be able to RP Serco or UIT, and just keep their standing because." If you want to be formally aligned with an evil entity/flag/faction/whatever you want to call it...nation-states are not going to turn a blind eye.
I don't really have an argument, just think the same nation protection thing can and will get in the way if you keep self-nation like.
Itani cannot kill even disliked Itani in Dau or Sol II, or any capitol system; just so you know. This extends to all the capitols. Also pirates do not just sit in B-8 PvP'ing. Although that is fun it is not piracy.
Itani cannot kill even disliked Itani in Dau or Sol II, or any capitol system; just so you know. This extends to all the capitols. Also pirates do not just sit in B-8 PvP'ing. Although that is fun it is not piracy.
It's kind of simple; you have to answer this question: To the game, what will make the difference between you and a trader/nationalist/carebear?
Your guild tag? Incarnate said already and repeatedly he will never implement stuff base on guild membership.
A pirate badge? Doesnt exist at the time and would be another soon (tm).
A pirate xp? Doesnt exist at the time and should be weird with trade xp (maybe negative scale?).
Standings? oh yes that the current game mechanics to tell who is an enemy or not
Why bad native standing? because it is the only way to differentiate pirate RP from a nationalist RP.
And i dont want another TRI/TGFT/Itan/SKV/One owned station.
You want to change how the game works? Post in suggestions matey, this is not the place.
PS: you dont need to fly a valk to be a pirate :p
Your guild tag? Incarnate said already and repeatedly he will never implement stuff base on guild membership.
A pirate badge? Doesnt exist at the time and would be another soon (tm).
A pirate xp? Doesnt exist at the time and should be weird with trade xp (maybe negative scale?).
Standings? oh yes that the current game mechanics to tell who is an enemy or not
Why bad native standing? because it is the only way to differentiate pirate RP from a nationalist RP.
And i dont want another TRI/TGFT/Itan/SKV/One owned station.
You want to change how the game works? Post in suggestions matey, this is not the place.
PS: you dont need to fly a valk to be a pirate :p
It's just terminology, son.
pi•rate (pīˈrĭt)
n. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
Piracy must be independent of any nation and self serving, to be piracy by its own purest definition.
If you're liked by your nation and RPing as a pirate, you're really a "privateer."
pri•va•teer (prīˌvə-tîrˈ)
n. A ship privately owned and crewed but authorized by a government during wartime to attack and capture enemy vessels.
Nothing wrong with RPing as a privateer, though!
pi•rate (pīˈrĭt)
n. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
Piracy must be independent of any nation and self serving, to be piracy by its own purest definition.
If you're liked by your nation and RPing as a pirate, you're really a "privateer."
pri•va•teer (prīˌvə-tîrˈ)
n. A ship privately owned and crewed but authorized by a government during wartime to attack and capture enemy vessels.
Nothing wrong with RPing as a privateer, though!
Hostis humani generis, bitches.
Joyless, who's authorizing this privateering? Just cause you are POS does not authorize you to shoot anyone.
Ok, I'll make it really easy and simple for you to understand. *deep breath*
1. Your standing is based on your behavior.
You do something a nation doesn't like, you lose standing. You do something that a nation likes, you gain standing. Yes? On to the next point.
2. You conduct pirate-y activities while being POS under a nation. You do not lose the standing for some reason, despite committing obvious acts of crime against another human being. Murder, theft, assault, extortion, and so on.
Now, how do you explain this in a way that makes sense in RP terms?
The nation sanctioned those heinous activities.
No, don't give me the "what happens in gray stays in gray" line. Nothing is a secret, especially when witnesses are present. Even when there are no witnesses, there is forensic science to unravel what happened in an incident.
1. Your standing is based on your behavior.
You do something a nation doesn't like, you lose standing. You do something that a nation likes, you gain standing. Yes? On to the next point.
2. You conduct pirate-y activities while being POS under a nation. You do not lose the standing for some reason, despite committing obvious acts of crime against another human being. Murder, theft, assault, extortion, and so on.
Now, how do you explain this in a way that makes sense in RP terms?
The nation sanctioned those heinous activities.
No, don't give me the "what happens in gray stays in gray" line. Nothing is a secret, especially when witnesses are present. Even when there are no witnesses, there is forensic science to unravel what happened in an incident.
From my perspective, as piracy relates to playing VO:
I see no purpose to tanking faction standings simply for RP purposes until there is a compelling reason to do so and some sort of exclusivity for people that do in the way of pirate goodies or visual indicator to other players of said piratical nature.
Before the faction redux, maybe, but not now. To limit yourself to non-nation ships creates a handicap with no real benefit. A person is a pirate by the acts they commit. Nation standings often get tanked as a matter of doing business, but many pirates build them back up to maximize their hunting opportunities.
That being said, I have a lot of respect for the people who do intentionally handicap themselves. Hopefully the pirate faction changes Inc is working on will change this and create a real reason to alienate one's self from their home nation.
I see no purpose to tanking faction standings simply for RP purposes until there is a compelling reason to do so and some sort of exclusivity for people that do in the way of pirate goodies or visual indicator to other players of said piratical nature.
Before the faction redux, maybe, but not now. To limit yourself to non-nation ships creates a handicap with no real benefit. A person is a pirate by the acts they commit. Nation standings often get tanked as a matter of doing business, but many pirates build them back up to maximize their hunting opportunities.
That being said, I have a lot of respect for the people who do intentionally handicap themselves. Hopefully the pirate faction changes Inc is working on will change this and create a real reason to alienate one's self from their home nation.
pi·rate
/ˈpīrət/
n. a person who attacks and robs ships at sea. (or in this case, in space)
THAT'S what makes me a pirate. I shoot people. If you want to go by a different more narrow definition, that's fine. Don't force your interpretation on me. Pirate is as pirate does.
As I explained before, it's not that the gov't doesn't know about that, it's that they have no reason to care. I'm not attacking their convoys. I'm not attacking their military. I aid in things like CtC that directly benefit the Itani nation. Why should they care if I attack people who have no affiliation to them whatsoever? This isn't the same as saying Itani should be able to have high Serco standing - anything I do to help the Serco directly antagonizes the Itani. Piracy doesn't, so it's a whole different animal.
There doesn't need to be a game mechanic to differentiate between a nationalist and a pirate. Players can do that themselves. If you want to RP as a pirate who is hated by everyone, that's fine. I don't want to do that. I have enemies, but I also have friends. deal with it.
Why should they care if I attack people who have no affiliation to them whatsoever?
So, you think the Itani government shouldn't care when Itani players with admired or higher standing are molested, assaulted, killed, and their properties vandalized and seized?
Being able to sit at the Edras wormhole and continuously rape the Itani noobs that pop out from the Jallik side without any repercussion is one of the things that struck at me as being immersion-breaking and unrealistic.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it just sounds like you don't want to lose your access to valks. What else is Itani standing good for? Inc has said that he is open to the idea of a black market to trade ships through, so you should still have a mechanism for buying and flying valks.
So, you think the Itani government shouldn't care when Itani players with admired or higher standing are molested, assaulted, killed, and their properties vandalized and seized?
Being able to sit at the Edras wormhole and continuously rape the Itani noobs that pop out from the Jallik side without any repercussion is one of the things that struck at me as being immersion-breaking and unrealistic.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it just sounds like you don't want to lose your access to valks. What else is Itani standing good for? Inc has said that he is open to the idea of a black market to trade ships through, so you should still have a mechanism for buying and flying valks.
I already said, I don't attack their convoys, I don't harass their military. The only people with admired Itani standing I kill are people who have a personal beef with me, or noobs flying around greyspace that have even less reason to have high Itani standing than I do. Yeah, it allows for some weird situations like the one you described, but any system is going to have some inconsistencies, or be far too complicated. I don't want to change the way the game works, I want it to stay the way it is now (in this regard)
I do agree with Savet, however. If there is were tangible benefits to alienating myself from the Itani government (i.e. an actual grey nation, equipment on par with national equipment, etc.) then there may be a good reason to tank home standing. As it stands, there is no real compelling reason.
I do agree with Savet, however. If there is were tangible benefits to alienating myself from the Itani government (i.e. an actual grey nation, equipment on par with national equipment, etc.) then there may be a good reason to tank home standing. As it stands, there is no real compelling reason.
I don't want to do that. I have enemies, but I also have friends. deal with it.
You won't have to do that. You won't want to join any future Pirate faction/unaligned characterization, you won't get any toys reserved for that alignment (see, e.g., prom vs. valk vs. whatever shit the UIT get), and life for you will go on just as it does now (hopefully sans the Hound that was never designed to be a commonly-available ship anyway). The rest of us will have an additional choice that's extremely popular. Pareto improvement ftw, motherfuckers.
You won't have to do that. You won't want to join any future Pirate faction/unaligned characterization, you won't get any toys reserved for that alignment (see, e.g., prom vs. valk vs. whatever shit the UIT get), and life for you will go on just as it does now (hopefully sans the Hound that was never designed to be a commonly-available ship anyway). The rest of us will have an additional choice that's extremely popular. Pareto improvement ftw, motherfuckers.
If there is were tangible benefits to alienating myself from the Itani government (i.e. an actual grey nation, equipment on par with national equipment, etc.) then there may be a good reason to tank home standing. As it stands, there is no real compelling reason.
That's the whole point of this discussion, to create tangible benefits for the tri-KOS concept.
That's the whole point of this discussion, to create tangible benefits for the tri-KOS concept.
Sure let's just give kawkfeather whatever she wants!
greenwall, just because joylessjoker posted here doesn't mean the thread applies to you. shoo.
Congrats, you just contradicted yourself Hawkfeather. On the one hand, you don't think it's fair for people to tell you how to play VO (OP topic), but, on the other hand, you think it's completely acceptable for you to determine who is allowed to participate in your RP thread. *soft claps*
I do agree with joyless on this point:
but it just sounds like you don't want to lose your access to valks.
And, I also agree with you, Hawkfeather, on your disdain for people suggestion that to be a "proper pirate" you should disavow valks (/good major nation standing). I felt similarly when they took away my hard earned 13 POS. Best you can do is put up your best defense in the non-RP forums if it seems like something the devs would take under serious consideration. At this point that doesn't really seem to be the case regarding piracy.
I do agree with joyless on this point:
but it just sounds like you don't want to lose your access to valks.
And, I also agree with you, Hawkfeather, on your disdain for people suggestion that to be a "proper pirate" you should disavow valks (/good major nation standing). I felt similarly when they took away my hard earned 13 POS. Best you can do is put up your best defense in the non-RP forums if it seems like something the devs would take under serious consideration. At this point that doesn't really seem to be the case regarding piracy.
I felt similarly when they took away my hard earned 13 POS.
Delicious.
Delicious.
"#trollpostsmatter" -greenwall
I don't want you here greenwall, but I'm not asking the devs to ban you from any thread I start. That's the difference between our predicaments. Stay if you wish.
And I'll admit, a big part of what the Itani nation has to offer me is the best ship in the game. I'm not a nationalist. If pirates get access to some shiny new toy that is comparable with the Valk and Prom I might have a good reason to sever ties. But the greyhound wouldn't be enough, nor would something on the level of the UDV. My point is, I should be allowed to make my own decisions about what ships I use, where I go, and how I play the game, and a single narrow interpretation of what it means to be a pirate (or any other RP for that matter) shouldn't be enforced by game mechanics. Let players decide what they want to do.
I don't want you here greenwall, but I'm not asking the devs to ban you from any thread I start. That's the difference between our predicaments. Stay if you wish.
And I'll admit, a big part of what the Itani nation has to offer me is the best ship in the game. I'm not a nationalist. If pirates get access to some shiny new toy that is comparable with the Valk and Prom I might have a good reason to sever ties. But the greyhound wouldn't be enough, nor would something on the level of the UDV. My point is, I should be allowed to make my own decisions about what ships I use, where I go, and how I play the game, and a single narrow interpretation of what it means to be a pirate (or any other RP for that matter) shouldn't be enforced by game mechanics. Let players decide what they want to do.
Hawkfeather, the x1 is not needed by pirates. You can pirate just fine in a hound. You probably just need to work on your skills and practice some more.
But, if you need such a crutch, why not just suggest something like creating a valk x1-p available for Corvus POS. Eventually, they could make corvus POS only available if you are neutral or lower with your home nation. The X1-p could have something like two small ports with a built in cargo scanner, but otherwise identical to the X1. They could also make a scp-p available.
But, if you need such a crutch, why not just suggest something like creating a valk x1-p available for Corvus POS. Eventually, they could make corvus POS only available if you are neutral or lower with your home nation. The X1-p could have something like two small ports with a built in cargo scanner, but otherwise identical to the X1. They could also make a scp-p available.