An excellent 174th Nation War; a good turnout with some newer players joining in.

Please note that swarms and Lmines are banned from NWs due to lag problems, but that the latter are under review. Oh, and Biocom mines are too... and don't even think about bringing a pet Furie.

Please note that folk coming back to watch should be in an EC class ship, and stay 2000m from the action using zoom to watch. If you come back in anything else it makes it very difficult for the host to work out what is going on, and in extreme circumstances may lead to the disqualification of your team.

May I ask all players to stay close to their nation group and remain relatively stationary at the start, makes it easier for me to record names.

-Gray/Pirate Team: (Native KOS will be strictly adhered to from now on.)
Azrael (Leader)
Blood Thirsty
Chaakin Tockoa
Look ...No Hands
Maalik, &c.
no name
spidey
TheBlackFlag

-Itani Team:
Ishathis Bessuni (Leader)
Solitary
ZanZabini

-Serco Team:
chewbaccaofborg
Keria willennium
Lars Marona
Mr. Chaos (Leader)
Riddik Willennium
Schelling
ShadowDeath
Solra Bizna
Star Buck
Tad pole

-UIT Team:
Boran Mur
Dameos
Ecka Estenk
Faustino Bashkir
Galtakii
Gerty
Ifor Ivanovich
John Eldritch (Leader)
Mick
Nuit'Likatisin
Osto Ralel
Shaar
Surbius Bondevo
Zanzan

A fun Nation War today, Serco, Gray, and UIT fought from the start. Azrael held out long against the the three remaining UIT but not forever. The win goes to the three UIT Boran Mur, Faustino Bashkir, and Shaar.

-The 174th Nation War prize of 28 million credits was sponsored by:
Fasutino Bashkir
Gerty
John Eldritch
Riddik Willennium
Surbius Bondevo
Wild Gramps

Good fights all around.

-The Wins:
Itani 57
Serco 31
UIT 70
Grey 8

-Currently banned players during the 174th Nation War:
peytros

-Prospective players for Nation War banning:
Benerrandis

We no longer need to adhere to the old rule about grey needing native KOS as FF has been turned on in grey. Whether or not we want to is another matter. As NW is not a TGFT event it would seem prudent to open this matter up for public discussion. Since you did not, Surb, I will.

Please, people, share your thoughts.

And I'm so sorry Chaakin. :(

I did open it for public discussion, within the game out on 100, so don't accuse me about keeping this debate private. Since I had no intent of keeping it strictly on 100 but expressed that it would be discussed both in game and on the forums. Also, where did I say Nation War is a TGFT event?

Right now the Gray Nation isn't an official nation as it has no actual status within the game mechanics. It is a subjective entity that is primarily defined by many as players with native KOS to their former nation.

There once was no Gray Team, as there shouldn't be a Gray Team since there is no official Gray Nation, but it was allowed to quell ramblings and get on with Nation War. However, the intended purpose of Gray Team was to allow the native KOS players to form their own team.

Now with other non-native KOS players wanting to join Gray Team it starts to cause needless confusion amongst teams and it proposes the melting of all nation bound teams, essentially throwing "Nation" out of Nation War and all you have left is "War." Basically a team based Last Man Standing tournament, which sounds fun, but what's the point in mixing up the entire event and hindering the organization, start, and recording of the event? Just because FF exists? I think an event like that would be postponed longer than most NWs before they start.

The purpose of Nation bound teams is to streamline all of the above, to help the host organize the event, and to help participants easily define the enemy. There are no built-in game tools to separate the teams efficiently if their mixed and the third party tools that do exist have questionable performance.

I say that if you want to be on Gray Team then act the part and don't flip flop on every other event day just to get on the better side.

Petition the Devs to add the Gray Nation or something similar if you really want Gray Team to be official. If and then, all nations, Serco, Itani, UIT, and Gray should stay on their own team. If you want to switch, pick a different character.

I was there too, on the Serco team...

-- Schelling

Whoops, sorry Schelling.

Anyone else notify me if I am missing players or placed you on the wrong team or other tidbits.

I can only assume you are blind and have missed the numerous times we have petitioned the devs to make a grey/unaligned nation. They have made it clear that it is coming, but not especially soon. Since that avenue has clearly proven to be a waste of time, what next would you suggest we do? I only ask as you seem to have all the answers, and are willing to share your knowledge with us.

And the Nation War is held in grey space. Currently we can, at times, be killers for hire on various teams. That is our prerogative as citizens of grey. Attempt to take that from us, and either see the cup of NW taken from your lips, or see the unrecognized nation of grey rise against you in protest.

Note: I do not mean that we will remove the possibility of NW happening, I mean that we will remove it from the hands of someone who interferes with our natural rights.
Also, gfs to all, if only Maalik hadn't mis-targeted Chaakin we might have had you! :D

Should I assume you speak for Grey?

Seriously, are threats required to debate this subject?

EDIT: Plus, where does it currently say in any rules or my words that native KOS players have to be on the Gray Team? Only the non-native KOS players are required to be on their home nation team.

Native KOS players have the OPTION to join Gray Team.

Now when the Gray Nation is truly established in the game, and people are actually Gray, then they are stuck to the Gray Team.

That's just my opinion on the subject.

There are obvious downsides to holding a debate on 100. It is noisy and many people are absent. Somehow I inferred that you felt the matter was settled when you didn't indicate in any way that it wasn't in the OP.

And of course NW isn't a TGFT event of course you wouldn't claim it was. Nonetheless it doesn't hurt to be reminded that you don't have any special authority on the matter.

The point of the NW is to allow the VO community to enjoy the group combat that it otherwise wouldn't. Our population is too small for large battles to occur organically with any regularity. Historically, because it is simple and because of the lack of FF, NW teams have been organized by color. FF is now gone, however, and simplicity only thing to consider.

Why not let people fight for the team that they identify with? Officially recognized by the devs or not, Grey, as disparate as it can be, is a real entity.

The only real concern, I think, is that people would find it too confusing to keep track of who is on what team. I personally have no problem keeping track of names but if it is problematic for the majority of people then maybe we should remove the Grey Team from NW. And barring its removal, maybe we should not allow native KOS players to fight for the nation of their choosing as has been done in that past. ( maybe if we cared about consistency and all that... )

Names are not important. If they were then perhaps we could argue that because it is the "grey/pirate" team, it should be open to anyone who is a "pirate."

I don't buy that it would be too confusing. And if ever you find it cumbersome to host NW then I'm sure we can find a willing replacement.

p.s.
I'm sooo sorry Chaakin & Azrael & all the rest..
*sadface*

I'm sorry if it sounds like I was dictating, but I assume no special authority among Nation War. If the community accepts me to host Nation War the day of the event, then I will enforce the rules that have been applied before me and I would expect every other host the same.

EDIT: Something I don't understand is this sudden outcry against this 'ruling' that has been active long before I started hosting. Why now?

I think the problem here is that the rule has been enforced less strictly at some points.

As I see it, it's a nation war. If you and your nation have rejected each other (hated/KOS status), it seems fair to go off and form another team with similar people. Otherwise, people should stick with their nation for the NW.

I would be very much in favor of other player-run team-based last-man-standing events, but the NW should be fairly strict about being on the proper team.

What a waste of shit words.

Let's propose something else:

Gray leader must be native KOS.

Therefore, it should be his prerogative to pick any player he judges worthy to fight for gray.

Well bled everyone : ]

Surbius, your initial post on the subject seemed to indicate that you wanted all native-KOS participants to play on the Grey team. The issue of non-native-KOS participants playing on the Grey team is a different matter, and it should be discussed, in light of the new FF changes. I would say that when we have the option of turning Grey, we can revisit the subject of which team Grey-aligned participants can join, but until that point we should be free to choose any team desired. There are some native-KOS players who refuse to join a Grey team until there is a Grey nation, and restricting native-KOS players to the Grey nation unfairly restricts them from the fight.

But I like BT's plan even better. :D

I think the native KOS rule is no longer necessary due to changes in game mechanics and should be removed.

I just want to say how glad I am that you guys still run and enjoy this event. Keep it goin!

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/12938

I know more than six people have an opinion about this...