Pey: any umpire could, in theory, try and use their discretion to rig the game. That doesn't mean you can play without one.

lecter: in baseball there is also a 1st base and 3rd base ump which makes it harder and in every other professional sport more then 1 advising body is used. but aside from that. I never said this was the only reason we where at war with tgft things have escalated from there im just saying this was one of the initial sparks

I have no concern if peytros declares war on tgft. My agreements with tgft do not directly involve me in any such matter.

As such a war, or any other action, involve or interfere with nation war, is however, of some concern to myself, in addition to any other interested parties.

Also, how nation war itself is conducted, as it affects the interest of grey space, is also of concern.

If it can be shown to my satisfaction that peytros is disrupting nation war without justifiable cause, contrary to the interest of grey, then I may seek sanctions against peytros.

If it can be shown that nation war is being conducted contrary to the interest of grey, then I may seek sanctions against those responsible.

thus far, at hand, are two separable issues:

a) a host is accused of acting improperly in the instance of an event.

b) a host is accused of using it's position to extort privileges beyond negotiate terms.

and a third issue:

c) a person and/or party is accused of interfering with an event that is operated under negotiated terms in the interest of grey.

As possible justifictions of the third issue are depended on the first two issues, I wish to review the first two issues first.

As lecter has presented an argument of domain in regards to the first issue, I seek further opinion and fact on this instance, sufficient to take priority over the argument of domain.

I wait tgft response to the accusation that it has used it's status as host of nation war to extort privilege in grey beyond negotiate terms.

I reserve opinion on the third issue pending findings on the first two issues.

As I posted above, I was there. All that Faustie being paused meant was that he didn't shoot at me and ran away when I approached. At that point Niki and Breazle were teaming up on me anyway, so Faustie's being paused did basically nothing.

So, for your two issues: The host didn't act improperly. I didn't hear anyone say that Faustie was paused because I was distracted, and when I did go after him no sanctions were taken against me. Basically Ecka or whoever asked people to not shoot Faustie because he was having problems, and people generally being nice they complied. When I didn't comply nothing was done against me, which is good because I had no clue what was going on. peytros's complaint would have more weight had there been some punitive action taken against me for continuing to attack Faustie, but there was none, so I can only conclude that the action taken by Ecka or whoever was to say "Faustie's having a spot of bother, not shooting him while he tries to fix it would be awful swell." No violation of the rules or negotiated terms, just a friendly request that most people apparently honoured.

Okay, I just went over my logs from that battle. The host took no action. Nobody told anyone to lay off Faustie but Faustie. He asked people not to shoot him because his JS was borked, and at that point it was just me, Niki, Breazle, and him. Niki and Breazle were busy ganking me, and, as I said, I tried to shoot him and he ran off, which is perfectly valid tactics for the NW.

In short, no actions were taken by anyone to temporarily remove Faustie from the war. He asked people not to shoot him, and I still did cos I wasn't paying attention. No rules were bent or broken, and nobody but Faustie even got involved with the situation.

I took no action since there was none needed. I was watching the fight and decided that Faustino could play it whichever way he thought best.

He could have hit turbo and left the sector, effectively retiring from the NW. That is entirely within the rules , and since he had lost control would have been perfectly acceptable.

He instead moved away from the action but remained in the field, explaining that he had control problems. It would have been perfectly acceptable for the remaining players in the NW to shoot him, since he was still present. As it happened they were largely occupied fighting each other.

What was totally unacceptable was for Peytros to enter the sector in a non ec class ship , shoot Faustino and then run off.

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/21199

This is all largely academic. Subsequent events have, as is often the case, obscured the casus belli.

I wish HAWK would give it a rest with these bloody pointless publicity threads. Take them somewhere else, nobody cares.

then why do you keep posting in them?

I think your plural is off, ecka.

I understand that any player may make any claim in or outside of nation war, and that such a claim need not be recognized by any other player. In this case, Faustino Bashkir is a member of TGFT, and any claim made by him(her?) could be interpreted as authority. I urge TGFT to promote a policy that participants are not to be recognized as host. In the extreme event that Faustino Bashkir's demands are interpreted as authority, the remaining participants have right to remidy. Observers having limited investment at this point, thus limit their claims to remedy.

This is further compounded by the opinion presented by Dr. Lector, which I interpret to imply, that a host should require a certain authority of domain, in order to fulfill the objectives they have been charged with.

Since no other complaint about this instance is presented, and the presented complaint has limit claim to remedy, I recognize the priority of domain in this instance. This incident may be sufficient casus belli for peytros, but not for grey, and peytros does not represent grey in this matter. I would recommend peytros offer remedy, but this recommendation is deferred, pending additional inquiry into related matters.

The charge that a host has used it's status to extort privileges beyond negotiated terms still stands. I note that this charge has not been answered. I ask if this charge is going to be answered, and at what time.

locking requires someone calling someone else a ninny.

And a fine Vogon Roda would make, too.

[edit]+1 Whytee[/edit]

While I am not interested in getting sucked into a protracted debate here, I will add my thoughts on your actions peytros.

The NW is captained by TGFT pilots. They run the show, and we are all fortunate enough to attend and enjoy the festivities.

When TGFT makes a rule statement, such as "pausing" a player for a legitimate reason, then the whole of the competitors must follow TGFT's decision. Does this mean that you cannot strongly object? No. Does this mean that you cannot boycott the NW? No.

What it does mean, is that when you then act in a childish manner, and ignore the rules for your own personal reasons over the objections of the whole, that the end result can be nothing other than TGFT and the other NW players being angry that you violated not only the rules of the NW, but the social rules of the game itself.

In this example, you have clearly violated both the written and unwritten "rules" of VO with your brash, and un-called for actions against a non-aggressive NW contender that was under protection by a TGFT ruling.

Surely you mean Vogon Lecter?

Um, Pyro . . . putting TGFT in the driver's seat on NW rules might not be the best argument for why NW is off limits in a guild war against TGFT.

can't we all just shoot each other and not have to talk about it so much...

Funny you mention that...

WTF? TGFT doesn't run NW. Ecka runs NW. If any TGFT other than Ecka says something that would change the rules of NW in the sector, I'm pretty sure everyone would give them the response they deserve. Faustie didn't say "don't shoot me!" as an authority figure, because TGFT aren't authority figures in NW. I note that most of the people saying such things are people I haven't seen in an NW in quite some time, and I would urge them to not make such statements that are clearly baseless.

That should answer your charge about a host, Roda. Faustie wasn't a host. Nobody saw him as a host. The only person seen as a host is Ecka. If people see all of TGFT as hosts for NW, then that is kinda your problem, not TGFT's. Faustie didn't make "a rule statement," he asked people not to shoot at him. In the event, that request wasn't honoured. I don't really see what the fuss is about...

Let's just all agree to grief [HAWK] members, okay? I mean, that's the easiest thing, right?

Problem solved. Preliminary words are over. Let's move on to the execution stage of this argument.

Testimony received from Ecka Estenk can be interpreted to indirectly refute the claim of Peytros that a nation war host has used it's position to gain privileges to grey beyond negotiated terms. Unless a plaintiff request cross examination, presents additional witness accounts, or otherwise pursues additional proceedings in the matter, I will be force to drop the issue.

ref: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/21299#263578

In the issue of the pause of Faustino Bashkir, I recommend that Peytros offer remedy to the host of nation war.

In the issue of [HAWK]'s disruption of nation war, I recommend that such actions cease immediately, and that [HAWK] offer remedy to the host.