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Good post, Roda.
Hm...
I am, frankly, more surprised that people see the hail as this declaration of readiness to fight. In the immortal words of Eli Wallach as Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez (known as The Rat) in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, directed by Sergio Leone,
"If you want to shoot, shoot! Don't talk..."
I am, frankly, more surprised that people see the hail as this declaration of readiness to fight. In the immortal words of Eli Wallach as Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez (known as The Rat) in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, directed by Sergio Leone,
"If you want to shoot, shoot! Don't talk..."
I'm at least happy to see that Syylk has figured out how VO actually works.
I dunno if that rant was posted at me roda, but the ONLY place I *expect* others not to shoot me is in a station. The B-8 thing was mearly to point out that *I* don't attack *duelists* there, I'm not saying people should do the same to me.
What I am trying to get across roda, is that people seem to think there is some *un-written* code that says if I wan't to shoot someone, I have to tell them first (there was such a code while I was in CLM, but I no longer am, so ner ner), which is UTTER NONESENSE. And if anyone wan'ts to take this post as a reason to shoot me, while I duel or otherwise, sweet.
What I am trying to get across roda, is that people seem to think there is some *un-written* code that says if I wan't to shoot someone, I have to tell them first (there was such a code while I was in CLM, but I no longer am, so ner ner), which is UTTER NONESENSE. And if anyone wan'ts to take this post as a reason to shoot me, while I duel or otherwise, sweet.
I think a good analogy of what Roda is saying is the pot dealer who calls the police after someone steals his pot. Although I enjoyed Roda's post, I don't think it was 100% relevant.
The best thing about VO is that you can choose to play however you want. If you wanna be the guy who interrupts fights and is generally hated by everyone, you can do it. If you wanna be an indiscriminate killer and attack people everywhere, you can also do that. What I gathered from Yoda's post was that he chooses to respect the hailing rule when he's dealing with consensual PvP in B8. There is no reason that he has to, but he does. He also chooses not to hail when he's outside of B8. These actions are not mutually exclusive, they are gameplay choices that he has made. He could just as easily choose to never hail and kill people in the middle of fights.
Hailing is a formality. If you're in a guild, you probably already know your guilds stand on hailing before combat. If you're unguilded, you get to decide how you play. So, to sum it all up ... Don't hail me the next time you see me, start blasting!
Waldoze
The best thing about VO is that you can choose to play however you want. If you wanna be the guy who interrupts fights and is generally hated by everyone, you can do it. If you wanna be an indiscriminate killer and attack people everywhere, you can also do that. What I gathered from Yoda's post was that he chooses to respect the hailing rule when he's dealing with consensual PvP in B8. There is no reason that he has to, but he does. He also chooses not to hail when he's outside of B8. These actions are not mutually exclusive, they are gameplay choices that he has made. He could just as easily choose to never hail and kill people in the middle of fights.
Hailing is a formality. If you're in a guild, you probably already know your guilds stand on hailing before combat. If you're unguilded, you get to decide how you play. So, to sum it all up ... Don't hail me the next time you see me, start blasting!
Waldoze
To be honest.. I'd rather the hail mean "im friendly" as that would actually make more sense.. No hail? uhh.. unless you can defend yourself, get the hell outta dodge, stay away from the person, you hail them, no response.. make even more haste.. they say "hi" oh.. hey.. *phew, maybe they're friendly*
Exactly, eize. If I hail, I intend not to shoot.
People think that cos I attack people outside of Sedina B8 its OK to jump in and attack me without a hail, in Sedina B8
Those people should remember, that when they are attacking you while dueling, they will make angry both you and your opponent. Because if I was duelling yoda, I wouldn't be satisfied if I killed him with the help of ganker. So if someone tried to gank Yoda, I would help Yoda to kill the bastard (though in practice these people could be UIT with high standing...)
Those people should remember, that when they are attacking you while dueling, they will make angry both you and your opponent. Because if I was duelling yoda, I wouldn't be satisfied if I killed him with the help of ganker. So if someone tried to gank Yoda, I would help Yoda to kill the bastard (though in practice these people could be UIT with high standing...)
Most of the other posts have said this in one way or another, but to sum up:
In VO, you should be ready for combat 24/7, hail or no hail. If you're not, you'll learn quickly to do so. Many have gotten used to the polite VO where PvP is still somewhat consensual even in non-consensual areas. This is all well and good due to the small community, but when/IF we have more players, you'd better get used to not seeing this courtesy quite so often. Surprise is a perfectly legitimate and effective tactic. If you got surprised, it's your own fault.
In VO, you should be ready for combat 24/7, hail or no hail. If you're not, you'll learn quickly to do so. Many have gotten used to the polite VO where PvP is still somewhat consensual even in non-consensual areas. This is all well and good due to the small community, but when/IF we have more players, you'd better get used to not seeing this courtesy quite so often. Surprise is a perfectly legitimate and effective tactic. If you got surprised, it's your own fault.
It's hellishly difficult to maintain the element of surprise anyway.
My $0.02
I like having a place for consensual pvp, therefore In Sedina b8 I behave like I'm in an arena. Outside of it I don't. I do not feel compelled to communicate at all outside of b8. In answer to yoda's original question, I don't believe a hail is necessary at all.
The people that don't get what they expect in sedina b8 are the ones that want b8 as an arena but don't always treat b8 that way. A great example is tumblemonster. Basically you can't pirate in b8 then whine if someone comes back and attacks you there without hailing. Pirating in b8 says that to them it's not an arena.
--Harpo
I like having a place for consensual pvp, therefore In Sedina b8 I behave like I'm in an arena. Outside of it I don't. I do not feel compelled to communicate at all outside of b8. In answer to yoda's original question, I don't believe a hail is necessary at all.
The people that don't get what they expect in sedina b8 are the ones that want b8 as an arena but don't always treat b8 that way. A great example is tumblemonster. Basically you can't pirate in b8 then whine if someone comes back and attacks you there without hailing. Pirating in b8 says that to them it's not an arena.
--Harpo
I agree with yoda, Harpo, Ghost, et. al.
While hailing has become a 'common courtesy' of sorts in VO, it never was (and never will or should be) a required action. In 'arena' areas like B-8, it makes sense to hail people before attacking, but it's not required.
Obviously, if you want people to hail you before they engage you in B-8 you probably should hail others before attacking. But outside of B-8, it shouldn't be expected that pilots will hail before attacking -- though I should point out that if a pirate simply attacks without hailing there's no way for someone to pay them off.
Personally, I send a hail as a greeting rather than a challenge; on the off chance that I want to fight someone I ask over sector comms so that my intent is known to other people in the sector -- an attempt to ward off interference -- though B-8 is hardly the place to fight if one wants to be assured a lack of interference from certain other parties.
While hailing has become a 'common courtesy' of sorts in VO, it never was (and never will or should be) a required action. In 'arena' areas like B-8, it makes sense to hail people before attacking, but it's not required.
Obviously, if you want people to hail you before they engage you in B-8 you probably should hail others before attacking. But outside of B-8, it shouldn't be expected that pilots will hail before attacking -- though I should point out that if a pirate simply attacks without hailing there's no way for someone to pay them off.
Personally, I send a hail as a greeting rather than a challenge; on the off chance that I want to fight someone I ask over sector comms so that my intent is known to other people in the sector -- an attempt to ward off interference -- though B-8 is hardly the place to fight if one wants to be assured a lack of interference from certain other parties.
At this point I would like to point out how broken the VO economy is. my 5/5/4/5/2 alt has well over 1.7 million credits. Pirates ask for as little as 10 to 500k and DO NOT get payed unless they are well known pirates. You can make 2500000 on a single escort mission for the crappy law abiding stations...
...Its REALLY REALLY hard to spoil someone's escort mission by killing all the trade bots too, in fact the only time I managed to do this was today (after how many months of this mission?) when I noticed Chi was escorting a voy through a system I happened to be in, seems they had run into an ion storm! Lucky me! I shot the behemoth heavy that was at like 3%, and then chased the last remaining taur to a station (across three systems, and it was a bot, I love my new net connection) it hit the station upon docking, enabling me to hit it, and ending Chi's mission.
What's the point in asking for money in a hail?
...Its REALLY REALLY hard to spoil someone's escort mission by killing all the trade bots too, in fact the only time I managed to do this was today (after how many months of this mission?) when I noticed Chi was escorting a voy through a system I happened to be in, seems they had run into an ion storm! Lucky me! I shot the behemoth heavy that was at like 3%, and then chased the last remaining taur to a station (across three systems, and it was a bot, I love my new net connection) it hit the station upon docking, enabling me to hit it, and ending Chi's mission.
What's the point in asking for money in a hail?
Yeah, since no one ever pays you anyway, yoda.
If I recall correctly, I would shoot at yoda every time I saw him, and expect the same. Too bad we never seemed to be around at the same time.
Same with Roda, but with at least the semblance of a hail or at least some kind of announcement over sector chat, something like "Time to Die, Roda!" or "Roda Slane's mother is a space monkey!" or other friendly greeting.
I think there are just people in the VO universe who you should just expect to attack you on sight without hail, and yoda's one of those types.
If I recall correctly, I would shoot at yoda every time I saw him, and expect the same. Too bad we never seemed to be around at the same time.
Same with Roda, but with at least the semblance of a hail or at least some kind of announcement over sector chat, something like "Time to Die, Roda!" or "Roda Slane's mother is a space monkey!" or other friendly greeting.
I think there are just people in the VO universe who you should just expect to attack you on sight without hail, and yoda's one of those types.