Shanis, Mick and I discussed this, according to Shanis' post in the Suggestions forum:

"Why not make the race a bit more interesting. Allow a racer killed in the race the chance to still place. The racer of course has to restart at M-14 (the biggining) and complete the entire voyage. Make a time limit, starting after the first place racer crosses the finish line. This allows a player who was killed (by pirates) to restart and possibly still finish the race. Race progress is still monitored in the group and start/finish is still in Odia M-14. Imagine if YOU were the first racer to be killed, start over, and win first place....ahh, the glory of it all."

I raced in the Deneb Run #88, and a pirate killed me right after the first jump. I had homed in Odia M14, and restarted on my own, despite being told I could not race again and being ignored by everyone throughout the race. I caught up to everyone and finished in 2nd place. Everyone denied me any prize, even though I put out more than enough effort to win, fair and square. Thus, my suggested amendment to the Deneb Run rules:

1. Racers may restart the race after they die. However:
-the pirate who killed them will not get any money for their kill if the racer finishes,
-there is a time limit of 20 minutes after the first racer has finished,
-the respawned racer is only elligible for 1/2 his placement money
-everyone must home in Odia M14 and redo the entire route if they die
-the race leader must wait by the station in Odia M14 in case racers restart.

Please comment.

-SilentWave

This has the potential to complicate the Run tremendously. I don't like it, no matter the reasons.

1. A run can last anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour; if you want to add 20 minutes on top just because someone dies we're looking at a time of 50 to 80 minutes. As both a racer and an MC, I seriously dislike that.

2. While from time to time we get a lot of pirates after the racers, in general the Run is nothing more than trying to outguess the storms. The one death rule makes the racers stay on their toes and adds an element of risk; take that out and the Run becomes even duller.

3. Though some are skilled at railing, everyone agrees that catching a racer is hard. If the pirates are going through the trouble of sticking to the rules in order to claim a prize (i.e. no killing at M-14) I'd find it extremely unfair to let their efforts unrewarded just because a racer wants to play again after being killed. I've come across railers, swarmers, and everything in between, and died like maybe twice to each while escaping all other times; you can avoid becoming a casualty if you pay attention. If all you want to do is plot and press enter when you're in the proper place, then the Run is not for you.

4. The MC always stays in M-14 for the entire duration of the race. I've never heard of it not being so, and if it ever happened is because he was shot down and had not homed there. Not sure from where you are coming with this one.

The only way I'd consider letting people who die try again, is if the Run ended immediately the moment third place docks, but that would go against the spirit of the Run, where finishing (without dying) is an accomplishment in and of itself.

1. What does MC mean?
2. How are you both a racer AND an MC? I thought the MC couldn't race because he has to remain in M14.
3. It doesn't seem very complicated to me and those with whom I've spoken about it.
4. I did not say you add 20 minutes just because someone dies. You only add 20 minutes after the first racer finishes, and it would only be if someone retries the race. Not everyone who dies will retry the race if they don't stand a chance of placing.
5. It sounds to me like you want pirates to inhibit the race. And what about those times when hordes of pirates killed all the racers? Was it still fun, then? With only 7 possible racers and more people joining pirate guilds all the time, don't ignore the fact that this will happen alot, potentially ruining the race for everyone involved. Then we'll have no racers. Instead, consider not rewarding pirates for killing the racers. They just want to kill, and they know where the targets will be. Unless you want the Deneb Run to simply fund pirates, I recommend you consider my suggestions further.
Racing is a challenge all by itself. It's only boring to those who don't race. Some do it for money, but money is easy come, easy go in this game.
6. You want to reward pirates for killing racers. I no longer want to participate in the Deneb Run.

Here's a nice analogy I used when discussing this with Mick. When you throw a party, don't you gear it towards the people attending it? Why, then, would you cater to those who want to ruin it? Don't fuel the pirates, fuel the racers. Or do you give money to pirates just because you think that supporting them will make VO a more challenging game for everyone?

If it's competition you're after, let more than one group race at a time. Don't let the competition diminish when players die. Respawning is an integral part of the game for a very good reason, so that you can KEEP PLAYING.

Silent, there is not limit as to how many people can race, it's not very often but there were cases when second group was created.
And as for party analogy, like it or not pirates are invited.

The spirit of the race is more of a iron-man/ obstical course.

If you want a hard-core race, try starting your own league using the racing tubes.

1. MC stands for Master of Ceremonies. It is the person relating the race in 500, and doesn't race unless unusual circumstances apply (less than three racers total, including the MC, IIRC). The MC needs to be in the group so he can hear the pilots call out their position, and also to organize things at the start.

2. Joyce was today's MC, and she didn't race. She has raced other times, none of which she was the MC. Joyce is my character ingame. Go check the Deneb Run stats thread so you can see I've been at this for a loooong time.

3. By the KISS and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rules, it is overly complicated. How many deaths allowed? One? How is that different from zero? If more than one death allowed, do we add 20 more minutes after each? 10? 5? All these questions can be ignored by keeping things simple with the One Death rule.

4. If the first racer takes 30 minutes to finish, and you add to that 20 minutes so someone who dies can retry, then you HAVE added 20 minutes. Easier not to do it. And just like today some kid insisted on running after dying and somehow demands that he be given his place, someone who doesn't have a shot might decide to call for the 20 minutes just to spite people. Rather than try to decide if such a person stands a chance or not in order to grant or deny those 20 minutes, it's easier not to have the rule there at all.

5. Before these rules were enabled by TGFT, pirates killed the racers at the station, or found the group before the start and shot them, or l-mined the station docks both before the pilots left it and just as the race was ending. Now they behave because they get money for it. Do you understand? Let me put it in bold and caps: THE CURRENT RULES APPEASE THE PIRATES SO THEY DON'T COME AND TRASH THE EVENT, NOT TO MENTION ADD MORE DANGER AND EXCITEMENT TO IT.

6. The rules were added by TGFT as a compromise to pirates, and if you go and search you'll find I opposed them on record but I abide by them and still run. I have to say nobody forced you to run, you didn't pay for the privilege or anything, and you certainly won't be missed from it.

Now, to trounce your analogy: the Run is not a party, and VO is not your house, so you cannot keep the party crashers out. Only thing you can do is try to ignore them or encourage them to participate in a less disruptive way. TGFT chose to go with the latter option, and I have to admit it has largely worked (we still get the ocasional a-hole from time to time).

And, again, the Run is very dull as it is; waving the One Death requirement will just make it more boring and tedious. And no, there's no limit in the number of players allowed; we only need more group controllers. I think we've had up to three groups at one time. And competition diminishing when players die is precisely what the rule is for. Want to stay in the competition? Then pay attention!

I saw you die silent. Why you got within two or three hundred meters of a known racer killer is beyond me. I was opposed to the pirate payment rule, but it, grudgingly admitting, works. Most pirates want the money because a good pirate won't trade. It also adds danger, like everyone else said. Save for the ocassional races where I start last and come up to win 1st, it's relatively simple to run the race. Plan ahead, dodge pirates, make sure to watch your screen for when to jump.

[STAMP OF REJECTION]

I think you should try the rule and see how it works out.

As for the time limit of 20 minutes, this is not complicated at all. Once the first person is done, there are only 20 more minutes to the race. Case closed.

I do not apply new rules, I simply follow the ones given to me by the event owners, and the events owners say "you die you're out". Case closed.

i think the reason why you might have made it in 2nd could have been because you no longer were considered in the race therefore pirates wouldn't get a prize for pirating you.

Being a known racer killer, I have to admit that asking me not to spam the race start point/end with lmines is not going to work. Payin me for an *honorable* kill does work - I say *honorable* because everyones take on what honour is is different.

Anyway, Silent, as a racer killer I have to say its damn hard to catch a seasoned racer, us pierats have to really plan ahead and work for the kills - You would not even be asking Joyce to take away our prizes if you were present for some of the early TGFT sponsered runs, talk about lmine fests - Oh, and besides that point, the race was created (although anyone could have thought of it eventually) by a pirate!

I have acted as MC for the DR on a stand in basis when the regular hosts were away , and believe me Silent wave keeping up with what is going on and doing a commentary is an hour of hard work . Joyce does this difficult job every week , and I for one would not wish to see changes to the rules which would make the job of MC much harder .
With regard to any rule changes TGFT would accept the final decision of Joyce , whoose experience in running this premier event is beyond compare .

Ecka

Silent, this game needs pirates to exist. I am saying this as a member of VPR :) (completely out of character, of course) And Deneb Run need pirates to participate. I am saying this as a racer (and I have fairly good experience in racing). Yes, pirates add the fun (though and some frustration too). Maybe it also needs some activity of guards, who knows...

Killing racers is not as simple as it seems to you. Try participating on an evil side next time, and you will notice that winning pirate prize money is much harder than winning it for racing. And you want to make the job even harder for them?

Oh dear God, yoda, anything but those Lmine days.

Speaking as a player:

As one of the other alternate MCs for the Deneb Run, I too must emphasize that this is a HORRID idea.

It's enough work keeping up with the racers and simulataneously doing the commentary when there are only three racers, let alone seven. It's very chaotic, very difficult work.

All this suggestion would do is make the already-tedious work of the MC THAT much more tedious. It's an unecessary complication.

I for one will not sit in M-14 and wait for you or anyone else to go around the loop a second time if, say, you were killed in Bractus. I sincerely doubt that anyone else would. I am in college; I have homework and things to do. I don't have time to sit in a station for two hours because of some silly amendment suggested because you're bitter that you were killed by (as moldyman pointed out) a well-known racer-killer. The race already has issues starting on time. This would just make it take even longer.

No. Bad idea.
[REJECTED]

If you want, make your own race and MC it, Silent~Wave. Come up with money for prizes and make whatever rules you want. Call it the "Silent Running."

Aye, it will be very silent

A suggetion to FURTHER increase the length of the run?

And from a player who, blissfully disrespecting everyone else:

1) Asked the MC to delay the start by 30 minutes,

2) Delayed the end by another 30 by jumping around Odia in a (completely vain) attempt to avoid fire from pirates and then-irated racers.

[HUMONGOUSLY REJECTED]