ok, this may be a stupid question (allthough i was told stupid questions don't exist, only stupid answers ;) but can somebody explain to me why we can't kill people of the same nation with good standing? What is the motivation for this?

I dont like it, i mean, are our weapons that smart that they switch to blanks automaticly and how do they do that, do they predict the future? (in the event of someone suddenly crossing your line of fire)

It's like Star Trek, only backwards. In Star Trek, if the Klingons can find out what frequency the Enterprise's shields are running at, they can shoot right through them. In Vendetta, it's the other way around, all the friendly ships tell each other what their shield frequency is, so that their shots will be blocked.

Yeah, that's it. And I'm not a geek, why do you say that?

It also helps protect n00b players like monitored space does, only this protects them from each other.

It also happens to make life slightly more difficult for those who would try to be pirates. Want to pirate your own nation? Then you have to get yourself hated there first.

That would be the idea of a pirate, now wouldn't it?

yea, generally if you want to attack people from your own nation, you'll be hated by them or, you'll either end up being hated by them. If you're an American and you go kill a family and take up residence in their house, you're probably not going to be liked by very many people, least of all the authorities.

Well, I think in grey, you should be able to have friendly fire. It
IS unmonitored.

However, if there were roving monitors, certain actions might carry the risk that if you're seen you lose faction with your nation.

Friendly fire makes group combat a lot more interesting as you have to watch where you shoot. We don't have all that many noobs any more to justify punishing everyone else.

I agree with andreas.

The no-damage to same faction thing is so badly abused right now. 2 examples :

(a) POS-itani who takes CTC cargo to give to serco and vice versa (funny Alamar hehe)

(b) Spamming missiels/rockets into dogfights knowing it won't damage your faction specific friends

And it is so much more interesting when you can actually damage your allies, and makes you think a lot more before you just spam into a furball.

I understand the need to protect new players, but I think a nice hit to faction standing when you kill a new player (same nation) in monitored space is good enough. Once they kill 1 or 2, they'll get into KOS status and that's no difference from dropping the "faction invulnerability" anwyway. (ANd if they go to grey space....well it's grey space.)

I agree whole-heartedly. This is one of the things that does really bug me. I realize the relationship between being a pirate, and being KOS with your nation. But I happen to pirate more Itani's than UIT's (I think) and I manage to maintain impecible Itani standing.

I strongly suggest that this apsect of the game be tossed. I think that it is an aspect of the game that not only takes away from the realism, but is (as many have stated) WAY to easily abused. And I think noobs will figure out pretty fast that they need to be careful of what/where they shoot.

hear hear. hey vets - does anyone recall any specific problems that the friendly-fire protection is meant to solve, or is it directed only at potential problems? of the various unrealistic elements of this game, the friendly-fire protection is far and away my least favorite.

Can be turned off with effort.

End of discussion.

[Edit]

And negative stuff, like cannot dock, seems about right to me.

[Edit 2]

Me also thinks this is a suggestion (thread, not my post)
But I think the friendly fire should be extended to groups (you are not going to group with someone you want to be shot by) but not guilds. (sometimes guild members need or like to shoot other members) just my opinion of course.

Is there something wrong with being proactive about potential problems?

Think of all the annoying things you could do if you could automatically damage ships from your same nation. You could attack the CtC transport as it leaves the dock and then have somebody just come and scoop it up, you could harrass people at the home stations over and over again, you could go traitor at any second, etc.

I actually think preventing friendly-fire encourages role-play. You wanna go rogue? Ya have to work at it by committing a string of attrocities. You have to be somewhat consistent in it, and you have to deal with the consequences. In a real-life society people are bound by social mores and the fear of injury. Those don't really exist in an online environment, which allows people to behave in some very unnatural anti-social ways. I think this artificial constraint replaces the real-life ones that don't translate over to online existence. If you look at it that way, it's quite realistic.

Right FM, but there shouldn't BE any potential problems if friendly fire is limited to nation space.

You CAN go traitor at any second already.

And what's worse, if one side gets a courier thats of the nation of the other side, they're invincible. (We did this using Alamar)

The only way to know if someone is on your side is if you're in a guild. Why would you just blindly trust someone of your nation?

I think that the gameplay that it would add is very interesting.

(Not to mention that swarm spamming your own players along with the enemies would actually have disadvantages)

I resent the remark "using Alamar". :-)

I did this a wee bit before it was turned into something I got backup for. :-p

and is this b0rken? yes, it is. it should be fixed.

OK, I'm confused, what did Alamar do? He couldn't have destroyed the convoy himself, unless he was in bad standing and other Itani could destroy him. And even if he was in bad standing, my understanding is Itani can't deliver to Catequil Outpost, anyway. So... can't destroy, can't deliver... was all he was doing carrying for Serco? Why?

But anyway, I'm OK with no friendly fire protection in Grey Space, but in nation space I really don't think it should be taken away.

what would happen was that Itanis chased the Serco convoy, with me in their midst, tracking the transport(s) close. since I'm +1000 Serco, nothing bad happens to me. since I'm +1000 Itani, Itanis can't hurt me.

they pop the transport(s), I get the cargo, they can't to squat, I give cargo to the Sercos. on the other side, Sercos or BL blow up the transport, I get the cargo, cargo is again safe as Sercos know it's coming to them and Itanis can't hurt me -- leaving only Itani-loyal UiTs to stop me. which didn't happen once.

I did get around 200 units like this, a vast majority of that was from Serco convoys that Itanis killed. why? because IA declared war on BL, so I spent a week making sure that when I saw IAs doing CtC, they had to work _hard_ to get any cargo. my successrate was amazing, since I could stay 20m from the transport when it popped, in the midst of any action and just pick the cargo, and noone would hurt me.

and yes, this is a flaw. friendly fire should at least be possible for the attacker to disengage, at least in grey. is this an exploit? not in my mind, I can't steal cargo from Itanis once they have it either, it goes both ways if they'd used it well. they never did.

This talk of standing reminds me of a possibly related issue: if I kill someone of another faction in monitored space, I lose faction. If I do it in grey space, I don't -- even if I've been witnessed, either by NPCs or players. Shouldn't my actions be reported, somehow, even if the news is delayed? Say, for example, that my faction wouldn't drop until, and unless:

- the witness was a member of that faction, or the witness had good standing with that faction
- the witness made it back alive to a station of that faction [whose member I attacked]

After all, wouldn't real people in these situations report what they'd seen? How come some news travels across the VO universe, but this seemingly important, life-or-death news doesn't travel consistently? Only robots can report on the events that affect our faction standings, I think. Or do I misunderstand this? That's how it seems to me. Seems Alamar would have a pretty low standing with the Itanis if any Itani witnessed Alamar giving cargo to their enemies, even if the witness was a player.

Of course, I could *try* to kill any witnesses -- then, no faction loss should accrue, should I succeed in stopping the news from getting out.

I thought of this as I pirated an NPC in grey space while another NPC sailed merrily by, unperturbed and uninterested. Had NPC #2 been of the same faction, it might have either intervened or, at the very least, reported my evil deeds at its earliest opportunity.

BTW, my previous post is in no way meant as a complaint or criticism -- merely food for thought and discussion.

I like the idea! The only thing would be -- how do you stop false reports? What would keep me from turning you in and getting a bounty placed on you or having your faction points drop when you actually DIDN'T kill somebody? Say you shot them up real bad and then repaired them out of sport! If I only saw the shooting and high-tailed out of there, then I wouldn't know.

All in all, it IS a good idea.