Forums » General
Interesting Article
I found this randomly, Just while following a string of google links. And it seemed relevant to a lot of stuff going on regarding balance issues.
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_GameBalancePart1.htm
Creepy aint it?
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_GameBalancePart1.htm
Creepy aint it?
Very interesting article. It reminded me of my youth, when I tested Pod (remember that weird racing game?). We had to do a bit of both world, bugs and balance. Except the developpers never listened to us when it was about balance.
It all legitimates Guild Software way of testing Vendetta. With us, the players. We found unbalance faster than any test team, as we have way too much time to play ;).
It all legitimates Guild Software way of testing Vendetta. With us, the players. We found unbalance faster than any test team, as we have way too much time to play ;).
Good read, interesting perspective.
'Balance', imo, is somewhat subjective, much like the concept of 'Perfection'; often it seems to boil down to a matter of perception/opinion. The detailed, and sometimes heated, discussions on the VO message boards would appear to support this. Is it not possible to view imbalances as just another set of challenges that encourage new, innovative game play? The VO community has, imo, proved quite capable of responding to this in-game.
Wouldn't a 'Perfectly Balanced' game be rather predictable or at least limited in scope, and thus not very interesting/risky/rewarding? In VO dueling (admittedly, I've never dueled), isn't it interesting/fun to meet and be victorious over an opponent who has a better ship and weapons?
One of VOs greatest strengths in this arena is its lack of content, or forced Variety, with respect to character classes - there are none. This allows the players to choose their own Variety, and thus enables them to acheive their own Balance within the construct of the game as a whole. In terms of Balance as provided by the game, all things are available to all characters, all changes potentially affect all characters, and all benefits/penalties for certain choices are awarded/imposed on all characters who make those choices.
As a trader/miner with deliberately low combat/weapon licenses, who has by design no PKs or PvP experience, I've created a situation for my character that is deliberately imbalanced. This Variety of choice makes for more excitement for me, and a greater sense of achievement when I complete some task or mission.
Pure game Balance makes sense for a game that has a final resolution; an end to the contest, as in chess. The objective there is final victory. The objective in games like VO is not final victory, it is instead simply to play.
'Balance', imo, is somewhat subjective, much like the concept of 'Perfection'; often it seems to boil down to a matter of perception/opinion. The detailed, and sometimes heated, discussions on the VO message boards would appear to support this. Is it not possible to view imbalances as just another set of challenges that encourage new, innovative game play? The VO community has, imo, proved quite capable of responding to this in-game.
Wouldn't a 'Perfectly Balanced' game be rather predictable or at least limited in scope, and thus not very interesting/risky/rewarding? In VO dueling (admittedly, I've never dueled), isn't it interesting/fun to meet and be victorious over an opponent who has a better ship and weapons?
One of VOs greatest strengths in this arena is its lack of content, or forced Variety, with respect to character classes - there are none. This allows the players to choose their own Variety, and thus enables them to acheive their own Balance within the construct of the game as a whole. In terms of Balance as provided by the game, all things are available to all characters, all changes potentially affect all characters, and all benefits/penalties for certain choices are awarded/imposed on all characters who make those choices.
As a trader/miner with deliberately low combat/weapon licenses, who has by design no PKs or PvP experience, I've created a situation for my character that is deliberately imbalanced. This Variety of choice makes for more excitement for me, and a greater sense of achievement when I complete some task or mission.
Pure game Balance makes sense for a game that has a final resolution; an end to the contest, as in chess. The objective there is final victory. The objective in games like VO is not final victory, it is instead simply to play.
hear hear
Quibble: R&D at Wizards of the Coast does _not_ do a great job playtesting before product release. They just recently had to ban 8 cards because of an overpowering strategy.
baturkey, the whole point is that blance is such a hard problem in games that only needing to ban 8 cards is "great", and certainly taking enough interest to bother changing things after release is also much better than average.
It's really not great. They could have responded on the Dec. 1st Banned and Restricted list but they dragged their heels for three more months until plummeting tournament attendence finally forced them to ban "only" 8 cards.
"Is it not possible to view imbalances as just another set of challenges that encourage new, innovative game play?" Amen, amen.
Those who cry nerf should consider -- but not necessarily buy into -- the idea that there is more than one way to skin a cat... or kill a flare-laden Prom.
Those who cry nerf should consider -- but not necessarily buy into -- the idea that there is more than one way to skin a cat... or kill a flare-laden Prom.
I said it months ago...
Balance = Boredom
Balance = Boredom
As the case of the Magic imbalance shown :
Imbalance = Plummeting Attendance.
/me taps two blue mana and casts Counterspell at Rattman
Imbalance = Plummeting Attendance.
/me taps two blue mana and casts Counterspell at Rattman
I disagree, little variety equals boredom. The challenge is finding variety that does not create imbalance. Player issued bounties through the system were a perfect example. The bounties were worth so much that players were just taking the XP cut to get the cash. But the feature did add some level of interest, if only briefly.
Well, the article points out that there's another way to go about it.
Create so much variety, that there are so many imbalances, that it all balances out.
Create so much variety, that there are so many imbalances, that it all balances out.
Here's one for the old MTG players....
1) Illusions of Grandeur
2) Donate
Now was that fun?
1) Illusions of Grandeur
2) Donate
Now was that fun?
and another good one.
channel
+
fireball
channel
+
fireball
and my all-time favorite
>_>
<_<
Demonic Attorney: Target player forfeits the game or must add another card to the ante (may not be used in non-ante games)
>_>
<_<
Demonic Attorney: Target player forfeits the game or must add another card to the ante (may not be used in non-ante games)
actualy Magic R+D used to do an exelent job of balancing their new relieses, then around onslought block they started to go down hill, personaly i blame the extream number of new edditions they release each year, they just don't have time to concider thye consequences of any given card.
As for balance as it relates to vendetta, i think the bigest thing to remember is that some things should be unbalanced. for example no one would claim that a free bus with gov issued equipment should be able to solo the cap. ship, or even be able to take down say, a fleeing behemoth. those jobs require different equipment. in a game like vendetta balance meanes that no matter what i have there is somone out there who has a setup that can beat me (or at least could make such a setup).
PS: my favorat magic combo: Sliver Queen, Manna Eckos, Acitic Sliver
As for balance as it relates to vendetta, i think the bigest thing to remember is that some things should be unbalanced. for example no one would claim that a free bus with gov issued equipment should be able to solo the cap. ship, or even be able to take down say, a fleeing behemoth. those jobs require different equipment. in a game like vendetta balance meanes that no matter what i have there is somone out there who has a setup that can beat me (or at least could make such a setup).
PS: my favorat magic combo: Sliver Queen, Manna Eckos, Acitic Sliver