Forums » General
Prometheus- The Final Formal Petition Of Regress
There have been billions and billions of posts and complaints against the Prom. Personally, I have participated in and posted many of these. But also, I find they're getting old. I figured I might as well finish the whole deal off with a formal petition for the regress of the Serco Prometheus. If you wish to simply read the petition, scroll to the bottom of the post. In the following paragraphs, I will *reminisce* about the old anti-prom posts, quoting many of what I feel are the best arguments.
Cue the music montage!
"If one uses the equivalent mass for a 210 thrust ship, like the valk, we get that the prom's equivalent mass is lower, 4600 loaded, 3800 unloaded. Meaning that it accelerates like a valk with 2 rails.
When I got the Skycommand, I was disturbed to find that I didn't feel the weight at all. With 90 more thrust, the thing aims easily. Its 230-thrust eqivalent mass (for you rev C pilots) is 3600 unloaded, 3900 with just N3's, and 4300 with my optimum layout.
In short, the thing accelerates better than any Rev C layout with the exception of dual N3's.
This makes N3 aiming cake."
-Shapenaji
"let's assume that anyone can build the ship they WANT. if this were the case, where's the Itani/UIT answer to the SkyProm?"
-Apex
"It is the ultimate noob ship. (tho i regret saying since i am serco)"
-KixKizzle
"as for the SC AGT combination being noob-friendly, it has nothing to do with levels, but with skill. it requires a lot less skill to use it than to use almost anything else. you're still pretty mobile, you have 21K armor, and with a heavy battery, you can turbo to 3K easily at 220.
just after the "nerf" I fought a Hog in my SC, it was silly. I didn't even bother dodging much since, heck, trading blows 1 to 2 in his favor would actually win me the duel. if someone hits you, fine, just make sure you get into good enough AGT range, it's worth loosing a few thousand armor. "
-terjekv
"The prom has no trouble running away, its thrust lets it accelerate plenty fast, and its turbo speed of 200-220 is plenty to get away. I think it should have a somewhat harder time of running away, but as it is now I can't catch proms running with CtC cargo, even if they've turned and fought me for a while, and started running again. "
-Beolach
"calling someone a n00b because they cant beat a prom is silly. If they were nice and balanced there wouldnt be so many threads on them. I think the fact that it took 6 BL members in light ships to take down a pair of proms while still sustaining pretty heavy losses speaks for itself."
-Tramshed
"The current situation of combat in vendetta is in bad shape. You have two options, get a skycommand with a gt and rockets, or die. This is about as engaging as watching paint dry. Im sure theres lots of you who will respond with various things, saying I have to adapt, or saying I have to fly a heavy ship, whatever. To be perfectly honest i want the uber valk/n3 era back. It was immensely more entertaining, as you actually had to aim. As it is its just grab a prom, turbo towards them, fire, reload, repeat. Why would anyone use anything other that rockets and an agt anymore? Take the agt, nice damage, high rate of fire, insane autoaim, and its weight doesnt effect the ships its normally on. Then add in the flares, etc, no energy usage, huge damage, promiximity, and quite fast."
-Tramshed
"why bother flying anything else? if you can be easily beaten by a heavy ship in a light ship, why bother with the light ship? If we are going the route where this ship is inherently better than all the others, and this weapon combo is inherently better than all the others, why even have ship and weapon variants at all? Linear progression in this game will kill it."
-Tramshed (w00t! You were on a roll!!!)
"Ok I had enough of patiently waiting for the devs to fix it before talking about the prom.
There are enough threads about the proms in this forums to tell you something is really really wrong. People play this game to *have fun*. And clearly people are not having fun right now. Please don't ask them to stop whining, because if they don't how does the devs KNOW something is wrong?
DOn't tell me things like "oh the prom is the best ship, but others have its place so the other ships will still be used " : It's a 1 player 1 ship game, people WILL fly the best ship. You need balance to make the ships diverse, not a food chain.
Oh yeah, no anecdotal evidence about "so-so killed my prom in such and such". Do some statistics : get 2 pilots with equal ability and have them fly against each other light ships vs prom (choose your favourite setup), swap ships, do it 5 times. What is the score?
I pay to play this game to have fun, not to be aggravated. And this inbalance is aggravating members of my guild (which is the only reason I am staying and being patient because they are good sports about it so far). and that is getting to me now. But I keep questioning why am I paying 10 bucks to get mad instead of having a good time.
Come on! Isn't it obvious the prom is overpowered? Why are people still defending it?"
-softy2 (great post!)
"And, for those who says "quit whining" to me. You are more aggravating than the proms."
-softy2
"At present, the Skycommand prom flies like a medium/light fighter, but is still armored like a heavy. Other ship variants sacrifice something for their advantages; the Valk Rune can carry more cargo, but is slower, less maneuverable, and has less hull than the Vengeance and IDF. The Vengeance and IDF are faster and more maneuverable, but can carry next to no cargo. The Centurion is fast and insanely maneuverable, but has a tissue-paper thin hull. The Corvus vulture is very fast, but has a massive drain. No such give and take exists in the current prom. I would like to see the versions of the prom tweaked to fall more in line with specific roles."
-simondearsley
"Martin and I tried testing the SVG against the prom (using N3's, N2's, Gausses on the SVG, and AGT+flares on the prom). We performed softy's experiment, switching between light fighter and prom. Each playing each role twice. We then had
a few SVG-SVG and Prom-Prom matches.
The results were very interesting.
The AGT-flares prom never lost, nor did it ever drop below 75%, it simply charged, and finished off the SVG. (I tried many strategies to evade this, but he and I were able to dodge N3's easily at any distance. The only way to make use of the prom's size is to flank it at close range, which is nearly suicidal, though its possible to get lucky and drop them 8-9%)
In the SVG-SVG matches I won, and in the Prom-Prom matches, I also won.
So clearly, something is up here. The percentages at the end of the SVG-Prom fights were so predictable, that I don't think player skill even entered into it.
The Prom allows one to both "aim" AGT and aim flares at the same time, requiring 2 forms of dodging, which are not easily combinable.
Dodging AGT is a matter of changing direction a lot, but against flares, if you try to dodge the AGT, you make yourself a target.
To compare this to the valk, N3+flares, it requires 2 forms of aiming, that do not mesh. You can't fire N3's at your target AND fire a flare. You have to use 1 or the other.
The prom is, simply, too versatile, while requiring so little skill of the user as to make it ruin a skillbased game."
-Shapenaji
End the music montage.
(NOTE: If you feel that you were unfairly quoted, or you wish for your quote to be taken off this post, respond that in your post. Otherwise, thank you for your thoughts.)
Look at that. LOOK AT THAT!!! Those are hardly even 1% of all the anti-prom posts that I read through, and a much less percentage of all the anti-prom posts that have ever been written. I think something is up.
Most of these anti-prom posts called for a nerfing (or implied a nerfing). Some didn't. But the nerfing idea is long past overdue. Giving up on that, I am calling for something different. If you agree that the prom is an unfair ship, please sign the petition and hold to your pledge.
I, _____________, hereby pledge, in response to the multitude of posts, complaints, and in-game messages pleeing for the regress of the Serco Prometheus, to refuse to engage in combat any pilot using a Prometheus, until its stats are dimished to a reasonable* level.
*reasonable level to be determined by the signer. Suggested level--not invincible.
Please post simply "/me signs" if you wish to sign this petition. It's for effect. If you have a response, post it in a seperate post.
Cue the music montage!
"If one uses the equivalent mass for a 210 thrust ship, like the valk, we get that the prom's equivalent mass is lower, 4600 loaded, 3800 unloaded. Meaning that it accelerates like a valk with 2 rails.
When I got the Skycommand, I was disturbed to find that I didn't feel the weight at all. With 90 more thrust, the thing aims easily. Its 230-thrust eqivalent mass (for you rev C pilots) is 3600 unloaded, 3900 with just N3's, and 4300 with my optimum layout.
In short, the thing accelerates better than any Rev C layout with the exception of dual N3's.
This makes N3 aiming cake."
-Shapenaji
"let's assume that anyone can build the ship they WANT. if this were the case, where's the Itani/UIT answer to the SkyProm?"
-Apex
"It is the ultimate noob ship. (tho i regret saying since i am serco)"
-KixKizzle
"as for the SC AGT combination being noob-friendly, it has nothing to do with levels, but with skill. it requires a lot less skill to use it than to use almost anything else. you're still pretty mobile, you have 21K armor, and with a heavy battery, you can turbo to 3K easily at 220.
just after the "nerf" I fought a Hog in my SC, it was silly. I didn't even bother dodging much since, heck, trading blows 1 to 2 in his favor would actually win me the duel. if someone hits you, fine, just make sure you get into good enough AGT range, it's worth loosing a few thousand armor. "
-terjekv
"The prom has no trouble running away, its thrust lets it accelerate plenty fast, and its turbo speed of 200-220 is plenty to get away. I think it should have a somewhat harder time of running away, but as it is now I can't catch proms running with CtC cargo, even if they've turned and fought me for a while, and started running again. "
-Beolach
"calling someone a n00b because they cant beat a prom is silly. If they were nice and balanced there wouldnt be so many threads on them. I think the fact that it took 6 BL members in light ships to take down a pair of proms while still sustaining pretty heavy losses speaks for itself."
-Tramshed
"The current situation of combat in vendetta is in bad shape. You have two options, get a skycommand with a gt and rockets, or die. This is about as engaging as watching paint dry. Im sure theres lots of you who will respond with various things, saying I have to adapt, or saying I have to fly a heavy ship, whatever. To be perfectly honest i want the uber valk/n3 era back. It was immensely more entertaining, as you actually had to aim. As it is its just grab a prom, turbo towards them, fire, reload, repeat. Why would anyone use anything other that rockets and an agt anymore? Take the agt, nice damage, high rate of fire, insane autoaim, and its weight doesnt effect the ships its normally on. Then add in the flares, etc, no energy usage, huge damage, promiximity, and quite fast."
-Tramshed
"why bother flying anything else? if you can be easily beaten by a heavy ship in a light ship, why bother with the light ship? If we are going the route where this ship is inherently better than all the others, and this weapon combo is inherently better than all the others, why even have ship and weapon variants at all? Linear progression in this game will kill it."
-Tramshed (w00t! You were on a roll!!!)
"Ok I had enough of patiently waiting for the devs to fix it before talking about the prom.
There are enough threads about the proms in this forums to tell you something is really really wrong. People play this game to *have fun*. And clearly people are not having fun right now. Please don't ask them to stop whining, because if they don't how does the devs KNOW something is wrong?
DOn't tell me things like "oh the prom is the best ship, but others have its place so the other ships will still be used " : It's a 1 player 1 ship game, people WILL fly the best ship. You need balance to make the ships diverse, not a food chain.
Oh yeah, no anecdotal evidence about "so-so killed my prom in such and such". Do some statistics : get 2 pilots with equal ability and have them fly against each other light ships vs prom (choose your favourite setup), swap ships, do it 5 times. What is the score?
I pay to play this game to have fun, not to be aggravated. And this inbalance is aggravating members of my guild (which is the only reason I am staying and being patient because they are good sports about it so far). and that is getting to me now. But I keep questioning why am I paying 10 bucks to get mad instead of having a good time.
Come on! Isn't it obvious the prom is overpowered? Why are people still defending it?"
-softy2 (great post!)
"And, for those who says "quit whining" to me. You are more aggravating than the proms."
-softy2
"At present, the Skycommand prom flies like a medium/light fighter, but is still armored like a heavy. Other ship variants sacrifice something for their advantages; the Valk Rune can carry more cargo, but is slower, less maneuverable, and has less hull than the Vengeance and IDF. The Vengeance and IDF are faster and more maneuverable, but can carry next to no cargo. The Centurion is fast and insanely maneuverable, but has a tissue-paper thin hull. The Corvus vulture is very fast, but has a massive drain. No such give and take exists in the current prom. I would like to see the versions of the prom tweaked to fall more in line with specific roles."
-simondearsley
"Martin and I tried testing the SVG against the prom (using N3's, N2's, Gausses on the SVG, and AGT+flares on the prom). We performed softy's experiment, switching between light fighter and prom. Each playing each role twice. We then had
a few SVG-SVG and Prom-Prom matches.
The results were very interesting.
The AGT-flares prom never lost, nor did it ever drop below 75%, it simply charged, and finished off the SVG. (I tried many strategies to evade this, but he and I were able to dodge N3's easily at any distance. The only way to make use of the prom's size is to flank it at close range, which is nearly suicidal, though its possible to get lucky and drop them 8-9%)
In the SVG-SVG matches I won, and in the Prom-Prom matches, I also won.
So clearly, something is up here. The percentages at the end of the SVG-Prom fights were so predictable, that I don't think player skill even entered into it.
The Prom allows one to both "aim" AGT and aim flares at the same time, requiring 2 forms of dodging, which are not easily combinable.
Dodging AGT is a matter of changing direction a lot, but against flares, if you try to dodge the AGT, you make yourself a target.
To compare this to the valk, N3+flares, it requires 2 forms of aiming, that do not mesh. You can't fire N3's at your target AND fire a flare. You have to use 1 or the other.
The prom is, simply, too versatile, while requiring so little skill of the user as to make it ruin a skillbased game."
-Shapenaji
End the music montage.
(NOTE: If you feel that you were unfairly quoted, or you wish for your quote to be taken off this post, respond that in your post. Otherwise, thank you for your thoughts.)
Look at that. LOOK AT THAT!!! Those are hardly even 1% of all the anti-prom posts that I read through, and a much less percentage of all the anti-prom posts that have ever been written. I think something is up.
Most of these anti-prom posts called for a nerfing (or implied a nerfing). Some didn't. But the nerfing idea is long past overdue. Giving up on that, I am calling for something different. If you agree that the prom is an unfair ship, please sign the petition and hold to your pledge.
I, _____________, hereby pledge, in response to the multitude of posts, complaints, and in-game messages pleeing for the regress of the Serco Prometheus, to refuse to engage in combat any pilot using a Prometheus, until its stats are dimished to a reasonable* level.
*reasonable level to be determined by the signer. Suggested level--not invincible.
Please post simply "/me signs" if you wish to sign this petition. It's for effect. If you have a response, post it in a seperate post.
/me signs
/me signs
Now where's my money? :P
/me also completely agrees
Now where's my money? :P
/me also completely agrees
You do know a number of your quotes are out of date since they were posted before the prom took the very large thrust hit.
I have faith in the devs: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/9607?page=3#110593
[edit]
Also, more than nerfing the Prom, I'd prefer the other high-level combat ships (Valk, Hornet, Rag) be beefed up to better match, and the mid-level ships (Vulture, Warthog) should be slightly outclassed, but not to the degree they are right now, so I'd like them to be improved as well. The other "uber" ship people talk about, the Centurian, I think should either be slightly nerfed (especially in the interest of those of us with high pings), or else have its Combat license requirement increased to match its effectiveness. The standard cents are OK about where they're at, but the IBG & Rev. C should require Combat 5 or 6, IMO.
I'm going to say that I'm not signing, both because I'd rather not see the Prom nerfed much more, and also because I'm not going to "refuse to engage in combat any pilot using a Prometheus." Even though I regularly get trounced, fighting the uber-Proms is a LOT of fun, IMO.
[/edit]
[edit]
Also, more than nerfing the Prom, I'd prefer the other high-level combat ships (Valk, Hornet, Rag) be beefed up to better match, and the mid-level ships (Vulture, Warthog) should be slightly outclassed, but not to the degree they are right now, so I'd like them to be improved as well. The other "uber" ship people talk about, the Centurian, I think should either be slightly nerfed (especially in the interest of those of us with high pings), or else have its Combat license requirement increased to match its effectiveness. The standard cents are OK about where they're at, but the IBG & Rev. C should require Combat 5 or 6, IMO.
I'm going to say that I'm not signing, both because I'd rather not see the Prom nerfed much more, and also because I'm not going to "refuse to engage in combat any pilot using a Prometheus." Even though I regularly get trounced, fighting the uber-Proms is a LOT of fun, IMO.
[/edit]
Eld, my latter post on there was from after the prom took a thrust hit.
The point is that even with the thrust hit, with the drop in mass of flares, along with their improvement, the Prom didn't lose anything.
/me signs
The point is that even with the thrust hit, with the drop in mass of flares, along with their improvement, the Prom didn't lose anything.
/me signs
I guess I have to sign something which has my quotes in it. Though I will stlll engage proms (and dying).
/me signs.
/me signs.
I'm a Serco. And a pirate at that....
/me lives up the uber prom while I can
/me lives up the uber prom while I can
well, i can't say i wont attack people in proms until they're fixed. Even though i die against any halfway decent pilot in a prom, i still enjoy the challenge. However, in calling for the regress (not nerf) of the prom...
/me signs
/me signs
[Stamp of disaproval]
How about we wait for other changes to come online as alluded to by Incarnate before renerfing the Prom.
How about we wait for other changes to come online as alluded to by Incarnate before renerfing the Prom.
/me dittoes paedric. Patience is a virtue. Even if it is hard to maintain sometimes.
/me dittoes Beolach
Give it time before rushing to re-nerf our ship.
Give it time before rushing to re-nerf our ship.
2 things:
1. We have waited a long time for proms to be regressed.
2. Regressed does not mean nerfed. Regressed means brought back. I don't want the prom brought back too far (the way it was when it was useless), but the idea of the post was to protest against the prom until some of it's giant uber add-ons were *regressed*.
Oh, and the petition is now changed to:
"I, _____________, hereby pledge, in response to the multitude of posts, complaints, and in-game messages pleeing for the regress of the Serco Prometheus, to attempt to avoid engagements in combat against or alongside any pilot using a Prometheus, until its stats are dimished to a reasonable* level.
*reasonable level to be determined by the signer. Suggested level--not invincible.
Note *attempt*.
/me resigns
*edit* i would also like to note that I'm not doing anything irrational like threatening to quit VO or something crazy like that =P, this is purely an in-game thing.
1. We have waited a long time for proms to be regressed.
2. Regressed does not mean nerfed. Regressed means brought back. I don't want the prom brought back too far (the way it was when it was useless), but the idea of the post was to protest against the prom until some of it's giant uber add-ons were *regressed*.
Oh, and the petition is now changed to:
"I, _____________, hereby pledge, in response to the multitude of posts, complaints, and in-game messages pleeing for the regress of the Serco Prometheus, to attempt to avoid engagements in combat against or alongside any pilot using a Prometheus, until its stats are dimished to a reasonable* level.
*reasonable level to be determined by the signer. Suggested level--not invincible.
Note *attempt*.
/me resigns
*edit* i would also like to note that I'm not doing anything irrational like threatening to quit VO or something crazy like that =P, this is purely an in-game thing.
Okay, this is most frustrating.
[See the end of the post for an edit]
2 things:
1) This is not a democracy. Petitions carry no weight here. We have a forum entitled "Suggestions". It is not called "Demands". We the users have a unique and privileged relationship with the development team that is found nowhere else, and this sort of thread just ignores that completely in favor of a rude and pointless "strongarm" approach. That brings us to...
2) This issue has already been addressed by the development team today. I reprint it here as it appears some have not noticed it or followed the link thoughtfully provided by Beolach:
"04:34PM incarnate
Hi. Ok, umm.. just read this all for the first time.
First of all, I'm trying to redo the weapons to make things more interesting. A lot of people have requested this. I imagine this will be a somewhat annoying balancing prospect just like the ships, but I hope you'll agree that it's a good idea.
Secondly, as far as me and Andy balancing things.. it's rather difficult for us to test this sort of stuff with players, so I just try to get a "ballpark" idea from testing with him. To give you an idea.. about 80% of the time *I* can't even get on our development server, I have to ask someone to build me a client or commit their stuff to CVS or whatever.. our development server is just torn apart constantly, which is a natural adjunct of.. well.. development! So it's pretty infeasable to get anyone else on there, and it's problematic for us to put new weapons on the production server (we can change existing weapons easily, adding new ones is more involved). So.. I try and get a ballpark idea of how things are, and then see how it works with you guys.
Yes, I have played and PvP'd recently, with players (incognito).. actually I've been playing a lot more lately. No, I have no intention of revealing my characters. Yes, I have rocket combat experience.
As far as the Prom goes, I've been continually tweaking the thing ever since we "de-nerfed" it. I think some people get frustrated because I'm unwilling to made sudden, massive sweeping changes (which then seems like I'm doing "nothing). I don't think those sorts of changes are in the best interest of finding game balance. So I fiddle with a little at a time, not too much, and see how it changes things. I expected this rocket change to be a pretty major one, but I guess I didn't expect this amount of umm.. frustration and angst.
The thing to add a distance-safety to rockets has been on Andy's list for a few weeks (and he has a lot of other stuff going on). Once this is in place, we'll be able to define behaviour per-weapon. Then I can experiment with using this on the sunflares, and maybe not using it on some lesser rockets like the iceflares or some such.. or even having variants that behave differently (an "illegal" black market rocket that has both high explosive power and the double-damage trigger, but has a 1 in 20 chance of just "blowing up in your face" on launch.. because it's poorly manufactured). Anyway.. a distance safety on rockets would probably end the Prom rocket-ramming issue, but would also remove the ability to suicide while taking out someone else.. something that used to be a viable and useful tactic in CTF (and could still be in a number of the nation-based conflicts that we're looking to add soon).
I'm leaning towards making the Prom more of a "heavy tank" type thing.. ie, reducing maneuverability even further, but compensating with increased armor. But I'm not sure about this, and, again, I dislike doing major drastic changes. I like to do things like.. drop in the distance-safety, and see how much that changes things. That way I don't completely screw up the dynamics of everything, because I've nerfed one thing to account for something else, while some other change has vastly altered the original basis for nerfing in the first place.
So, the best I can say is.. umm, try and relax a little? :). We're working on this, but I'm trying to do what I think is best for the game as a whole, and not for Just The Prom People, or Just The People Who Hate Proms, or whatever other group. I want to balance the game, and I agree it's unbalanced, but it's a little reactionary to just nerf the prom, when the problem really is "why is rocket ramming even possible, and what's the best way to get rid of it without removing valuable and real-world tactics (like suiciding on someone)".
Also note, I reduced the ammo of the top two rail guns in anticipation of making them more powerful per-shot. I'm approaching this cautiously, because rails can be pretty scary (as those of us who were in the alpha will remember). This is the same reason why I'm being cautious about the Hornet.. it needs work, but the quad-small thing can be utterly devestating (yes, it can't maneuver like a fighter, but as long as you can sneak up and kill them in one shot, who cares?), and I'm a little reluctant to fiddle with it until I know where the small weapons are really going to stand.
So anyway, that's where I'm coming from.. I get where you guys are coming from, and I'm trying to do something about it. I'm also trying to do all the Real Big And Important stuff, like where the game is actually *going*. We're all juggling the best we can, and all I can ask for is continued patience. "
[locked]
[EDIT ::shuffing feet:: Ookay, perhaps it wasn't THAT rude. I get a little protective when the petitions and rants come out. I guess it's because *I* know about the devs years-long track record of delivering what the game needs - though it may not be what WE thought it needed. We all need to relax (myself included, apparently) and let them bring their vision to reality. Some of our suggestions will undoubtedly help them improve upon that, but let us remember that they are suggestions. I still think thei should stay locked. Start a new thread after the next round of changes.]
[See the end of the post for an edit]
2 things:
1) This is not a democracy. Petitions carry no weight here. We have a forum entitled "Suggestions". It is not called "Demands". We the users have a unique and privileged relationship with the development team that is found nowhere else, and this sort of thread just ignores that completely in favor of a rude and pointless "strongarm" approach. That brings us to...
2) This issue has already been addressed by the development team today. I reprint it here as it appears some have not noticed it or followed the link thoughtfully provided by Beolach:
"04:34PM incarnate
Hi. Ok, umm.. just read this all for the first time.
First of all, I'm trying to redo the weapons to make things more interesting. A lot of people have requested this. I imagine this will be a somewhat annoying balancing prospect just like the ships, but I hope you'll agree that it's a good idea.
Secondly, as far as me and Andy balancing things.. it's rather difficult for us to test this sort of stuff with players, so I just try to get a "ballpark" idea from testing with him. To give you an idea.. about 80% of the time *I* can't even get on our development server, I have to ask someone to build me a client or commit their stuff to CVS or whatever.. our development server is just torn apart constantly, which is a natural adjunct of.. well.. development! So it's pretty infeasable to get anyone else on there, and it's problematic for us to put new weapons on the production server (we can change existing weapons easily, adding new ones is more involved). So.. I try and get a ballpark idea of how things are, and then see how it works with you guys.
Yes, I have played and PvP'd recently, with players (incognito).. actually I've been playing a lot more lately. No, I have no intention of revealing my characters. Yes, I have rocket combat experience.
As far as the Prom goes, I've been continually tweaking the thing ever since we "de-nerfed" it. I think some people get frustrated because I'm unwilling to made sudden, massive sweeping changes (which then seems like I'm doing "nothing). I don't think those sorts of changes are in the best interest of finding game balance. So I fiddle with a little at a time, not too much, and see how it changes things. I expected this rocket change to be a pretty major one, but I guess I didn't expect this amount of umm.. frustration and angst.
The thing to add a distance-safety to rockets has been on Andy's list for a few weeks (and he has a lot of other stuff going on). Once this is in place, we'll be able to define behaviour per-weapon. Then I can experiment with using this on the sunflares, and maybe not using it on some lesser rockets like the iceflares or some such.. or even having variants that behave differently (an "illegal" black market rocket that has both high explosive power and the double-damage trigger, but has a 1 in 20 chance of just "blowing up in your face" on launch.. because it's poorly manufactured). Anyway.. a distance safety on rockets would probably end the Prom rocket-ramming issue, but would also remove the ability to suicide while taking out someone else.. something that used to be a viable and useful tactic in CTF (and could still be in a number of the nation-based conflicts that we're looking to add soon).
I'm leaning towards making the Prom more of a "heavy tank" type thing.. ie, reducing maneuverability even further, but compensating with increased armor. But I'm not sure about this, and, again, I dislike doing major drastic changes. I like to do things like.. drop in the distance-safety, and see how much that changes things. That way I don't completely screw up the dynamics of everything, because I've nerfed one thing to account for something else, while some other change has vastly altered the original basis for nerfing in the first place.
So, the best I can say is.. umm, try and relax a little? :). We're working on this, but I'm trying to do what I think is best for the game as a whole, and not for Just The Prom People, or Just The People Who Hate Proms, or whatever other group. I want to balance the game, and I agree it's unbalanced, but it's a little reactionary to just nerf the prom, when the problem really is "why is rocket ramming even possible, and what's the best way to get rid of it without removing valuable and real-world tactics (like suiciding on someone)".
Also note, I reduced the ammo of the top two rail guns in anticipation of making them more powerful per-shot. I'm approaching this cautiously, because rails can be pretty scary (as those of us who were in the alpha will remember). This is the same reason why I'm being cautious about the Hornet.. it needs work, but the quad-small thing can be utterly devestating (yes, it can't maneuver like a fighter, but as long as you can sneak up and kill them in one shot, who cares?), and I'm a little reluctant to fiddle with it until I know where the small weapons are really going to stand.
So anyway, that's where I'm coming from.. I get where you guys are coming from, and I'm trying to do something about it. I'm also trying to do all the Real Big And Important stuff, like where the game is actually *going*. We're all juggling the best we can, and all I can ask for is continued patience. "
[locked]
[EDIT ::shuffing feet:: Ookay, perhaps it wasn't THAT rude. I get a little protective when the petitions and rants come out. I guess it's because *I* know about the devs years-long track record of delivering what the game needs - though it may not be what WE thought it needed. We all need to relax (myself included, apparently) and let them bring their vision to reality. Some of our suggestions will undoubtedly help them improve upon that, but let us remember that they are suggestions. I still think thei should stay locked. Start a new thread after the next round of changes.]
Er, ok. I didn't consider this thread to be rude, but I'll just follow up FM's comments by saying that we're going to put some changes in tonight (including, hopefully, the new distance safety on rockets). We'll see how that affects things. I'll also be doing some other minor ship and weapon tweaks.