So, I spoke a little early before. And now, with a bit more experience, let me convey my thoughts.

I'm a light fighter pilot. I love energy weps, specifically N3's.
But, I've been flying a Mk II prom on my serco char for a lil while, always with dual N3's + jacks/screamers (I refuse to use AGT, it ruins your aim and makes you lazy).

It's actually a nice feeling, the weight, it makes your actions deliberate and more thought out than the quick dodging of a light fighter.

I enjoyed fighting against Rev C's, while I couldn't easily keep up with them close range, I did have my rockets, and my armor, and with a bit of strategy, I could leave them open for a few N3 shots. (note, the "equivalent mass" of a prom mk II, the equivalent mass for a 230 thrust ship, like the Rev C, to accelerate the same, is 4265 kg, with my wep layout, its 5102. so my Prom accelerates like a Rev C with dual gauss)

If one uses the equivalent mass for a 210 thrust ship, like the valk, we get that the prom's equivalent mass is lower, 4600 loaded, 3800 unloaded. Meaning that it accelerates like a valk with 2 rails.

When I got the Skycommand, I was disturbed to find that I didn't feel the weight at all. With 90 more thrust, the thing aims easily. Its 230-thrust eqivalent mass (for you rev C pilots) is 3600 unloaded, 3900 with just N3's, and 4300 with my optimum layout.

In short, the thing accelerates better than any Rev C layout with the exception of dual N3's.

This makes N3 aiming cake.

now, don't get me wrong, its BIG, harder to dodge most stuff. And it doesn't turn as fast.

But, as far as turning , if you're using JUST the turning to aim, you're making a mistake. With a heavy ship you aim with your strafes. Maneuver and don't do major turns to aim. The Skycommand is just too good, I want a heavy ship that FEELS like a heavy ship.

And for those of you that bring up the drain of the SC, don't. The thing hits 220, and 60 drain is still good enough to catch most people. It also hits its top speed very quickly, and the payload of rockets lets it use that to full effect.

Make the mk II into the standard prom is my suggestion. Its actually a beautiful lil ship. Don't go above 550 thrust, but keep the armor, and the topspeed/drain on the skycommand the same.

The true measure of how powerful a ship is, comes in its prevalence among the players. Ask yourself how many proms you've seen recently. It seems, everyone's got a skycommand or a Rev C, and THAT's a problem.

I'm not sure whether to agree or not. On the one hand, I agree that the Sky Command does handle a bit too well for its size and weight. But on the other hand, I have been fairly handily taken apart by a decent pilot in a Rev C. Several, in fact :)

I have a feeling though that if we leave the Sky Command alone, we can count on the devs revisiting the light ships and making them a bit more able to compete with the higher thrust on the heavy ships. I don't think that they uberized the Sky Command just to leave the rest of the ships in its dust. I think that most likely that the heavy ships got their workovers first due to a flip of a coin, and that the light fighters will get theirs next and level the playing field a bit.

I tend to agree with shape here.

I love the prom, but the skycommand especially doesnt feel like a HEAVY ship.

I however would suggest some moderate performance cuts for all the proms.

-25 thrust for the basic prom, giving it a thrust of 500;
leave the mk2 thrust alone, but maybe increase its mass a bit(11,000? its got that extra bracing for the larger cargo hold??);
reduce the thrust on the mk3 by 25, making it 525;
reduce the thrust on the skycommand to 600, (thats a -40 thrust) and increase its mass by just a bit to 10,500. I'm also wondering if dropping the non-turbo top speed to 60 wouldnt be a good idea, making it a little more veunerable in a fight.

I second the motion. Or third it... or... whatever, i agree.

Im with them on the skycommands

I would like to see the armour on the SkyProm come down a touch. That said, this is mostly a frustration post after weedling (is this a word? I do not know) M. Duncan down last night.... him with his Flare AGT SkyProm. Took me a good ten minutes to work him down to under 50% (50% for myself as well), and then he just turned around and took off? No way I could chase AND take off another 40% before he jumped.

I'm developing a serious SkyProm Complex.

I disagree.

IMO the Sky Command Prom handles extremely well, and the difference between it and the next best ship is larger than any other gap like that we've had in the past and that the the Sky Command Prom is easier to use than other "most powerful" ships we've had in the past.

Given all of that I still disagree with the solution. We will always have a "strongest" ship. The Sky Command Prom is one of the best possibilities for this position. It goes well with the back story as the best single fighter, and it can easily be made to not be good at escaping double teams.

At the moment the only thing the prom has that doesn't go well with the "most powerful" ship is it's ability to run away from fights. I believe that the Ace of combat should also be a liability. This could be acheived by significantly reducing its top turbo speed (to 160-180), or increasing its energy drain (to 70).

Eldrad's got the right stuffs. Yey Eldrad!

I could see that eldrad. drop the turbo to 190 at first (lets do this in small steps shall we)

I still feel that all the prom's need a reduction in thier thrust, as shapenaji said, it just doesnt feel like a heavy ship.

WHY do anything at all to the ship???? It looks like most of you forget, each Nation/Faction has Ships and weapons that they make, if they work better than you think they should, so what.
If I buy a Limo and put a jet engine in it to make it go faster, guess what, I now have a very fast Limo that know one else has, do I have to get rid or put a governer on it to slow it down because it just does'nt work for some ppl,lol I think not.

Maybe the Serco wanted a Heavy ship that flys like a fighter, I like the Prom Skycommand the way is and if you don't fly something else, there are many, many, many other ships to choise from.

Syberfly Out

Syberfly: let's assume that anyone can build the ship they WANT. if this were the case, where's the Itani/UIT answer to the SkyProm?

There's a problem because the only viable combat options against the SkyProm is a RevC or a Tunguska Centaur. There's not too much variety in combat. I'm sick of having to resort to those ships because using anything else is suicide against a SkyProm. SkyProms are too easy to use. It's not terribly hard for a Prom pilot to take out a venerable med/light fighter pilot. now put an experienced SkyProm pilot against the same person.. it's a slaughter.

Ok Rais your faction so you can fly it, if you are unable too or don't have the time, try differnt weapons set up, why does their have to be an anwser for the other 2 factions, Serco are the better equiped race in battle.

Syberfly out

the devs keep actual stats on kills and ship type.

"Ok, Raise your faction so you can fly it, ..."

Personally, Since these ships are the pinicle of each nation, why are they not specific to that nation sololy. It makes no sense to see Itani flying around in SkyProms. And by the same token, Serco flying Valks. This should not happen no matter what faction you have. Sure you could be the "pillar of society" with the "enemy" but they should not hand over special equipment to the enemy, it's a freakin war!! =)

As for the überness of the SkyProm, there definitely needs to be some sort of decrease in ability. Either in armor or in reation time, the thing is simply a beast of a ship. It's made fighting them no fun what-so-ever. And there really is no alternative, the Rev C may be manuverable enough to put up a fight, but as soon as the PSC gets a lock it's over.

Eldrad, while having a "best" ship can be interesting for gameplay.
It becomes much less so when everyone starts flying that ship.

Syberfly, sure, that's a solution, to go get the prom yourself, In fact, many people HAVE pursued this solution. But that makes every fight into a prom fight, which makes no sense and detracts from gameplay.

Pretty soon we'll all be flyin multicolored proms, and we can CALL them busses.

Johnhawl218, I like your Idea on making these ships/ weapons specific to that nation sololy, or make to where one would have to raise one's faction to 1000, or just do what they do to all things that are better than others NURF them to make others happy. They did it in Nascar with restrickor plates. rotflol

I'll Play either way, I love the game and Community.

Syberfly out

Let us see what the devs have in mind before we start talking about nerfing this or that ship. The Sky Command is the flagship of the Serco navy. It *supposed* to be special. "Lets take this down a hair, lets remove that ability, etc, etc, etc..." and presto, you might as well fly a Centuar.

the problem paedric, is that its currently the flagship of every other navy as well.

I do need to see what happens with the light ship balance, but I'm worried that any serious tweaks the light ships to balance with the skycommand, will make battles with anything less than Skycommands, Rev C's, IBG's, or SVG's rare.

You can't make a best ship and then balance everything to it. Eventually the ships will move so fast that people won't have the reaction speed to fly em.

Just give us a powerful, HEAVY ship. Not a ship that flies like a light fighter.

The beauty of the mk II prom is that it requires a different kind of flying style. This is not a style that anyone using a skycommand has had to put too much emphasis on learning.

Okay, I can see (and *almost* conceed) that the nation specific "flagships" (not the more mundane nation/faction ship varients) maybe should be specific to said nations pilots (in good/excellent standing) only. But lets hold off on cries of "NERF IT" for a bit until every ship has had its first round of "balancing".

Hmmm. Won't comment on that.

What I -will- comment about is that the most common ship I see is not the Prom. In any design. Its the Rev C.
All over the place.

And its not only because of the prom, its because its virtually unbeatable in any other light fighter, because its a Rev. C.

Nerfing the prom will only turn another nerfrace on, to kill the Rev C's uberness, or to boost the valk/vult combos so they compare.

Then comes the changes to weapons, and the circle goes again.

I'm quite content with leaving the prom as-is until the Hornet and Wraith get a look-over, And the tweaks to weapons start to happen.

Currently its hard to track a rev C, its near impossible in a mkII prom with heavy weaponry (dual-flare, your layout doesn't count, Shape) due to the extra mass. Dropping them more will change that even more painfully, giving an even stronger preference for said lighter ship, since noone but the die-hard or very skilled will manage a setup like that..

First, before the Prom is changed more, I want to see a Rev C. be beatable by a BioCom Vulture given two equivalent layouts and pilots.