Forums » General
next patch incoming | ships balance | my opinion
speaking of swarms....that a single swarm hit blows up a cent is a bit ridiculous, isn't it. why do i have the impression that many things worked much better and have been more fun in space quake times?
/maso.
/maso.
...like unlimited griefing possibilites, with no reprocussions (no faction standings or such back then)? Or...I don't know. The ability for even a complete new person to buy a tri-flare, f-c equipped, valk after about 30 minutes of trading and prey/annoy-the-crap-out-of upon the older, but more peaceable, vets? Or perhaps you were referring to the big ol' EIGHTEEN sectors! No, no, I'm being silly. You must have been referring to the completely unnecessary player-kills in sector 7 and 9 where peaceful traders just trying to make a few bucks were residing. Oh! But all this time I was forgetting about the good ol' MONEY BUG(s) and its(their) NEVER-ENDING EXPLOITERS! Yeah. That must have been it.
Please calm down. I think his post was in reference to the discussions over each change that occurs as the game moves closer to balance. Back then, everyone was blowing everyone else up with equipment that was all evenly matched.
Back on topic: The changes to the Centaur and Prom were only the beginning. The rest of the heavies (Rag, Atlas, probably Maud, maybe Hogs) are getting similar treatment soon. The light ships will probably also get an overhaul, but in a different manner.
Ideally, we should end up with a situation where organized group combat will become the norm in major battles. A single heavy won't last too long against a coordinated group of light fighters, but a coordinated group of heavies can put more than enough firepower into play to even the difference. Mixed groups of ships will be even more able to cope with varied combat situation.
Back on topic: The changes to the Centaur and Prom were only the beginning. The rest of the heavies (Rag, Atlas, probably Maud, maybe Hogs) are getting similar treatment soon. The light ships will probably also get an overhaul, but in a different manner.
Ideally, we should end up with a situation where organized group combat will become the norm in major battles. A single heavy won't last too long against a coordinated group of light fighters, but a coordinated group of heavies can put more than enough firepower into play to even the difference. Mixed groups of ships will be even more able to cope with varied combat situation.
I think it's reasonable for us pilots to experience periodic shifts the the balance of ships and weaponry. (Remember this is a simulation game with a simulated economy...) The arms race will periodically give Sercos an edge, likely with large powerful cybernetcially-enhanced ships, and Itanis an edge with smaller maneuverable fighters in greater numbers (if we can train all those newbies). And then there may be a shift in other directions if deemed good tactics by our military-industrial leaders. Scarcity and/or supply/manufacturing disruptions may cause inconsistency in the performance of certain weaponry and ships. A good pilot will need to be able to adjust to these changing conditions.
That said, I'm sure the Serco and Itani (and UIT) engineers are hard at work trying to make the best gear possible with the economic constraints they are facing. (Perhaps these changes should be described and explained in game-terms instead of or in addition to being a "fix" to past mistakes or imbalances.) Soon I hope to see skilled Itani pilots using their psychic force-fields to provide temporary shields, making their smaller fighters a match for the Serco behemoths.
--Oort Cloudburst (Itani)
That said, I'm sure the Serco and Itani (and UIT) engineers are hard at work trying to make the best gear possible with the economic constraints they are facing. (Perhaps these changes should be described and explained in game-terms instead of or in addition to being a "fix" to past mistakes or imbalances.) Soon I hope to see skilled Itani pilots using their psychic force-fields to provide temporary shields, making their smaller fighters a match for the Serco behemoths.
--Oort Cloudburst (Itani)
cactus, i am talking about weapons and ships as well as their stats not about the faction or the level system. just to make that clear.
thanks for your cynical comments anyway.
/maso
thanks for your cynical comments anyway.
/maso
I took out 6 hive queens using rags. Must not be so totally useless.
But it does have serious limitations in the face of "comparably-equipped" ships such as the famed prom.
Though I do admit the capabilities of the rag limits to quadrant missile-spamming. Warp into a quadrant, turbo next to a slow-turning object like a queen, unload 108 unis of swarm/yellow jackets, wait til enough missiles hits, warp out before guardians respond. Repeat as necessary, wich nobody comes in and steal your queen while to replenish ammo.
Other than that, I've not found much use to the rag.
Give the devs time to complete the overhaul, and get yourself on parity with the changes and then we can complain. We're still in the midle of changes here.
But it does have serious limitations in the face of "comparably-equipped" ships such as the famed prom.
Though I do admit the capabilities of the rag limits to quadrant missile-spamming. Warp into a quadrant, turbo next to a slow-turning object like a queen, unload 108 unis of swarm/yellow jackets, wait til enough missiles hits, warp out before guardians respond. Repeat as necessary, wich nobody comes in and steal your queen while to replenish ammo.
Other than that, I've not found much use to the rag.
Give the devs time to complete the overhaul, and get yourself on parity with the changes and then we can complain. We're still in the midle of changes here.
I tend to agree with Nya13. I think part of the reason behind some of these problems he brings up is that the devs are somewhat limiting themselves in the way ships are adjusted with respect to eachother. There are 3 key areas to consider (for combat oriented ships):
1) Maneuverability
2) Firepower
3) Armor (HP)
Armor is trivial to adjust. Maneuverability is is more complex, but seems to be well covered by changes in mass, thrust, top speeds, and turbo drains. However, Firepower is currently only limited by number of large and small weapon ports.
The problem with this, is that all ships have basically the same power supply. It's pretty easy to maximize energy useage with 2 energy weapons(or even 1 in some cases). After that, extra ports are only useful for equiping rockets or missles. However, if larger ships were given more energy and smaller fighters had their energy reduced, I think the difference in firepower would begin to make up for manuverability. How to do this is another topic altogether, but there are plenty of ways.
If this doesn't get addressed, I think we're going to see that as ships become more evenly matched, their flying abilities will become more similar, but with minor tradeoffs in maneuverability/armor. Not as much variety as could be possible.
1) Maneuverability
2) Firepower
3) Armor (HP)
Armor is trivial to adjust. Maneuverability is is more complex, but seems to be well covered by changes in mass, thrust, top speeds, and turbo drains. However, Firepower is currently only limited by number of large and small weapon ports.
The problem with this, is that all ships have basically the same power supply. It's pretty easy to maximize energy useage with 2 energy weapons(or even 1 in some cases). After that, extra ports are only useful for equiping rockets or missles. However, if larger ships were given more energy and smaller fighters had their energy reduced, I think the difference in firepower would begin to make up for manuverability. How to do this is another topic altogether, but there are plenty of ways.
If this doesn't get addressed, I think we're going to see that as ships become more evenly matched, their flying abilities will become more similar, but with minor tradeoffs in maneuverability/armor. Not as much variety as could be possible.
I think a major flaw with the "more armor" theory, fleabait, is that there's scarcely enough armor in the universe to offset a serious maneuverability disadvantage. Roguelazer's Numbers thread at http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/8787 shows how readily 70,000 points of damage can be dealt.
Actually, now that I recalculated because the game only fires one weapon out of a paired double when energy is low, it's closer to 100,000 points of damage. And that's only if every single shot hits and does full damage over a period of 20 seconds.
We're altering the masses of Large Port weaponry and addons in the near future. The ship rebalance is a part of that.
The main reason we're getting a lot of complaints at the moment is because you're having to do this a bit at a time, which throws things out of whack temporarily.
I have confidence in the capabilities of the devs
I don't need more.
I don't need more.
wyfling:
Part of the point I was trying to make was that while I do think amount of armor is important, it is somewhat limited for balancing. That's why I said "minor tradeoffs in maneuverability/armor".
I made that post before I saw that large-port weapons are going to be reworked, and I completely believe that it will add more variability to the "firepower" point. While not the way I was approaching it, the devs always seem to make good decisions in improving the quality of the game. I just hope to offer some useful input.
Part of the point I was trying to make was that while I do think amount of armor is important, it is somewhat limited for balancing. That's why I said "minor tradeoffs in maneuverability/armor".
I made that post before I saw that large-port weapons are going to be reworked, and I completely believe that it will add more variability to the "firepower" point. While not the way I was approaching it, the devs always seem to make good decisions in improving the quality of the game. I just hope to offer some useful input.