Forums » General
I'm curious to see what people think is a resonable amount of 'work' to earn a new level.
1)How much game time should it take to earn a level?
I don't think VO was supposed to be a leveling grind, as many weapons and ships are available by license level 4, most weapons and ships are available around license levels 5 and 6, with a few additional items (there are some exceptions) available by level 9. I have levels around 6,7 (weapons and combat) and 8 (trade) and I feel like I have access to many choices of equipment and ships. I often duel players and I work on setting up trading convoys and even a bit of CtC. How much more leveling do I really 'need'? I'm not desparate for a lightning mine launcher at the moment.
2) Do people assume VO is a leveling grind becuase and it takes longer to go up a level in VO and they expect it has 50+ levels like many other games? I think the highest level with new equipment is level 13? (and i think the devs dropped those requirements too)
Maybe the Devs have to add intermediate levels so players can have the statisfaction of leveling up every hour. :)
3) How many missions/bots/PKs should it take? The same amount for each level?
so 5 trade missions gets you level 1 trade, and another 5 gets you level 2 and so on? Or are higher levels supposed to take longer? IMHO I would expect the missions to get more difficult/longer/complex and I'd have to complete more of them to level up each time.
How about a forumla to determine how much mission completion bonuses should help you level up. Like to level up through missions it should take [2(current level)+5] missions?
4) Personally I think the jump between combat license 3 and 4 is steep, and also the jumps between level 0, level 1, and level 2 mining. Are there other places where the leveling is too steep?
I do agree that there need to be some more choices and variety for earning combat experience. I know Ray and the guys are working on crafting new missions and storylines to address this need. I think the new Hunt a Hive Queen was a step in the right direction.
I look forward to your responses. My school is using the ELOB reform model and I'm addicted to debriefings. :)
1)How much game time should it take to earn a level?
I don't think VO was supposed to be a leveling grind, as many weapons and ships are available by license level 4, most weapons and ships are available around license levels 5 and 6, with a few additional items (there are some exceptions) available by level 9. I have levels around 6,7 (weapons and combat) and 8 (trade) and I feel like I have access to many choices of equipment and ships. I often duel players and I work on setting up trading convoys and even a bit of CtC. How much more leveling do I really 'need'? I'm not desparate for a lightning mine launcher at the moment.
2) Do people assume VO is a leveling grind becuase and it takes longer to go up a level in VO and they expect it has 50+ levels like many other games? I think the highest level with new equipment is level 13? (and i think the devs dropped those requirements too)
Maybe the Devs have to add intermediate levels so players can have the statisfaction of leveling up every hour. :)
3) How many missions/bots/PKs should it take? The same amount for each level?
so 5 trade missions gets you level 1 trade, and another 5 gets you level 2 and so on? Or are higher levels supposed to take longer? IMHO I would expect the missions to get more difficult/longer/complex and I'd have to complete more of them to level up each time.
How about a forumla to determine how much mission completion bonuses should help you level up. Like to level up through missions it should take [2(current level)+5] missions?
4) Personally I think the jump between combat license 3 and 4 is steep, and also the jumps between level 0, level 1, and level 2 mining. Are there other places where the leveling is too steep?
I do agree that there need to be some more choices and variety for earning combat experience. I know Ray and the guys are working on crafting new missions and storylines to address this need. I think the new Hunt a Hive Queen was a step in the right direction.
I look forward to your responses. My school is using the ELOB reform model and I'm addicted to debriefings. :)
Actually, I think the license setup is pretty good. I wish it was a bit more balanced on amount of work between the different skills (i.e. it takes longer in the lower levels to work up trade than combat, and longer later to work up combat than trade, and mining takes forever no matter what), but aside from that I think it's pretty fair. After you get to the intermediate levels it ^should^ get more difficult and take a lot longer (making the reward more satisfying) and once you are intermediate, you can start working on faction standings to get better equipment from each faction.
Its not the time, its the monotony. I know they are working on it. Can't wait to see the new trade stuff.
I like it as it is now.
The first levels to get to that decent combat 4 is a level grind though. Also, it is weird that only the FC batt requires trade 4, which might discourage it. No other batt requires trade. I think there should be a 2nd line of batts, separate from light,med,heavy, that requires trade rather than combat, making FC the "ultimate" between the two. e.g. Charge Battery, 250 energy, 40 recharge, trade 2. Medium Charge Battery, 275, 45, trade 3. blah blah. Something like that, but more balanced.
With regards to mining. I found that at level 2 i got a super mining beam with a good extraction rate And once I found out where there was heliocence and penitc ore I was earning 18-20XP a crate. Level 3 mining came up pretty quickly, in fact I was too focused on making money to notice that I leveled up to mining 3.
With regards to the batteries. I also have asked Ray about adding a trade line of batteries to encourage more divergent RP paths. A few suggestions I had were a very small energy level but a fast charge for couriers (50 energy with a 60 recharge), and few other combinations of enregy/charge that were in between the current combat batteries.
With regards to the batteries. I also have asked Ray about adding a trade line of batteries to encourage more divergent RP paths. A few suggestions I had were a very small energy level but a fast charge for couriers (50 energy with a 60 recharge), and few other combinations of enregy/charge that were in between the current combat batteries.
I think the levels are good. There are some oddities (FC battery requiring mining lvl 4??) but otherwise the rate is OK.
Though, faction hits need some thought put into it.
Though, faction hits need some thought put into it.
So long as a 'Neut III factor' doesn't unbalance combat I think the level progression rate is ok (much as I detest the levels). I think that this is a very important thing though.
If the levels ever give an uber advantage then you are forced to grind to that level in order to compete. When the equipment is more balanced across the higher levels you can feel more free to progress at a comfortable pace thus eliminating the feeling of a grind. That way you can work for something special not something you need just to have fun playing.
I'd suggest a fairly even equipment being available at level 5 or 6 for combat without the need for special faction standings unless they are comparable across all nations. I don't think this applies as much or at all to the other levels.
If the levels ever give an uber advantage then you are forced to grind to that level in order to compete. When the equipment is more balanced across the higher levels you can feel more free to progress at a comfortable pace thus eliminating the feeling of a grind. That way you can work for something special not something you need just to have fun playing.
I'd suggest a fairly even equipment being available at level 5 or 6 for combat without the need for special faction standings unless they are comparable across all nations. I don't think this applies as much or at all to the other levels.
Yeah, I kind of agree with the genaral tone of others so far...
It should be harder to obtain higher levels, and those that want to grind, let them, like you said demidev, levels can be achived quickly (look at chewbaccaofborg *can you after deletion??*) took him a while to break combat 3 (although not that long) I think he lived for 10 days, by which time he was 6/summink higher than 6/summink higher than 6 but not as high as light/2/2.
So with experience, leveling a char to useable is easy.
But not balanced at that time, im still waiting to see how the new trade missions play out, after that I will post again.
[Edit]
Everyone has a bad day, or does not like something, the perils of an online ever evolving, and with as much player feedback as you guys take, player suggested content is you have to listen to every gripe, moan, winge, ect, ect, dont... ...you guys obvoisly had a vision too, use it, and sack waylon... =p
[Edit 2]
I think most gripes are about faction gaining/loss not leveling.
It should be harder to obtain higher levels, and those that want to grind, let them, like you said demidev, levels can be achived quickly (look at chewbaccaofborg *can you after deletion??*) took him a while to break combat 3 (although not that long) I think he lived for 10 days, by which time he was 6/summink higher than 6/summink higher than 6 but not as high as light/2/2.
So with experience, leveling a char to useable is easy.
But not balanced at that time, im still waiting to see how the new trade missions play out, after that I will post again.
[Edit]
Everyone has a bad day, or does not like something, the perils of an online ever evolving, and with as much player feedback as you guys take, player suggested content is you have to listen to every gripe, moan, winge, ect, ect, dont... ...you guys obvoisly had a vision too, use it, and sack waylon... =p
[Edit 2]
I think most gripes are about faction gaining/loss not leveling.
the main reason I'm so down on a lot of traditional RPGs is that they make "leveling" the ENTIRE POINT of play... you DON'T HAVE STUFF, so you spend (some ridiculous # of) hours GETTING STUFF
best case scenario in VO: I'm busy DOING INTERESTING THINGS (i.e. things I'd do if the "level" system DIDN'T EVEN EXIST)... then I check my char info screen after an hour or so and "Hey, I made a new level... imagine that!"
....*gets lost in his starry-eyed dream?*
best case scenario in VO: I'm busy DOING INTERESTING THINGS (i.e. things I'd do if the "level" system DIDN'T EVEN EXIST)... then I check my char info screen after an hour or so and "Hey, I made a new level... imagine that!"
....*gets lost in his starry-eyed dream?*
i'm with thurisaz (except for the shouting): leveling shouldn't be a goal in itself, but an outcome of interesting gameplay.
as it stands, i do a fair amount of trading and botting so that i can get better ships and weapons (mainly from the corporations) to use in CtC. ideally, the ships and weapons would come just as fast if i only did CtC.
as it stands, i do a fair amount of trading and botting so that i can get better ships and weapons (mainly from the corporations) to use in CtC. ideally, the ships and weapons would come just as fast if i only did CtC.
[[[[[[[Kixkizzle: (not anevitt) is making this post]]]]]]]
In most mmorpg's there's the short term goals and the long term goals. In Vendetta there's just goals. You want faction/money/weaponry. . . You just get it. It takes about 1/100 of the time in VO than in any other game (let's take EVE for example). In EVE you level up by clicking on a level button, then it tells you how many hours/days/weeks/months it will take for that level to be achieved..... It's a friggin screen saver compared to this game. I would like to see more weapons for each individual level (including level 16) and making the max level 20 just to stretch the levels out more (but keeping the top amount of xp for level 16 at level 20) This way there's a little more diversity and leveling does have benefits again.
/givemoney Devs 2c
In most mmorpg's there's the short term goals and the long term goals. In Vendetta there's just goals. You want faction/money/weaponry. . . You just get it. It takes about 1/100 of the time in VO than in any other game (let's take EVE for example). In EVE you level up by clicking on a level button, then it tells you how many hours/days/weeks/months it will take for that level to be achieved..... It's a friggin screen saver compared to this game. I would like to see more weapons for each individual level (including level 16) and making the max level 20 just to stretch the levels out more (but keeping the top amount of xp for level 16 at level 20) This way there's a little more diversity and leveling does have benefits again.
/givemoney Devs 2c
Yeah anevitt logged on my computer and forgot to log out so that's me that just posted.
I kind of dislike the whole level thing as it relates to equipment and ships (don't get me wrong, I can live with it). It is my feeling that equipment availability should be tied into standing and funding, not combat levels. It just seems to make more sense in a roll playing sense. Combat levels should have more to do with the experience and standing you are worth when you are PK'd or get a PK.
Some interesting comments here, but almost no response to the actual question:
"How long should it take to earn a new level?" The simple answer is: "less time than
it does now." After that it gets complex. How much time do you spend playing VO?
When you play, how much of that time is spent directly working toward a higher
level? etc. I used to play for hours on end, real marathon sessions, but in those days there was no leveling. Now I play less. Much less. Leveling is worse than
boring. I've read some (seemingly) outrageous claims by some players ("I made it from level 7 Combat to level 8 in about two hours!") But I have been trying to get to
level 7 Combat for a month! It's simple: I can't stick with the Combat long enough
to improve my skills because it's mind deadening. Part of the problem is that you
have to fly 3000m from your station to jump to another sector to find the "Bot du
Jour" and when you need to repair you have to fly another 3000m to jump back to your station... a waste of time. Oh well, it takes about 40,000 points to get to my
next level. Someone posted the other day that at the highest levels, you need to
rack up over 3,000,000 points per level! Crap! Oh well again. Sorry to ramble.
Anyone who has read some of my previous posts knows how I stand on this issue.
Leveling takes too darned long, is too boring, and the process needs to be shortened. Reduce the points required for each level, or increase the amount of
points received while doing the missions. Dramatically!!
"How long should it take to earn a new level?" The simple answer is: "less time than
it does now." After that it gets complex. How much time do you spend playing VO?
When you play, how much of that time is spent directly working toward a higher
level? etc. I used to play for hours on end, real marathon sessions, but in those days there was no leveling. Now I play less. Much less. Leveling is worse than
boring. I've read some (seemingly) outrageous claims by some players ("I made it from level 7 Combat to level 8 in about two hours!") But I have been trying to get to
level 7 Combat for a month! It's simple: I can't stick with the Combat long enough
to improve my skills because it's mind deadening. Part of the problem is that you
have to fly 3000m from your station to jump to another sector to find the "Bot du
Jour" and when you need to repair you have to fly another 3000m to jump back to your station... a waste of time. Oh well, it takes about 40,000 points to get to my
next level. Someone posted the other day that at the highest levels, you need to
rack up over 3,000,000 points per level! Crap! Oh well again. Sorry to ramble.
Anyone who has read some of my previous posts knows how I stand on this issue.
Leveling takes too darned long, is too boring, and the process needs to be shortened. Reduce the points required for each level, or increase the amount of
points received while doing the missions. Dramatically!!
Ratt, well, I can see Itani players getting from Combat 7 to 8 in two hours. Lots of new players were using an exploit to bot up levels at unrealistic speeds. I tried it out and got from 8 to 9 after about 3 or 4 hours. At which point I stopped, cuz it was stupid.
But some of those levels do seem as if they're seemingly impossible to reach. I got to combat 8 by botting normally, and couldn't seem to get to 9, because I got interested in PvP, and botting was just boring. Maybe there just needs to be more diversity in ways you can get experience.
But some of those levels do seem as if they're seemingly impossible to reach. I got to combat 8 by botting normally, and couldn't seem to get to 9, because I got interested in PvP, and botting was just boring. Maybe there just needs to be more diversity in ways you can get experience.
Mostly, I really like the leveling requirements in VO. One thing that bothers me though, is for higher combat licenses, you not only have to gain more XP, but the Advanced Combat mission (main source of combat XP) also requires more bot kills before it rewards you with ANY XP.
So it requires more XP, and more work to gain XP. Either one by itself would be fine IMO, but both together bother me.
So it requires more XP, and more work to gain XP. Either one by itself would be fine IMO, but both together bother me.
I really like the idea of 'trade/mining' battery, and 'trade/mining' ships too. Encourage specialization.
I dont mind 'licenses' so much. In real life you need a license and experience for many things. Truck drivers, pilots, lawyers, accountants, engineers, nurses, fast food workers, police officers, all have had to pass some kinds of tests and/or had certain amount of experience before they were given a license to do certain work, to get a certain job, or even to operate carry certain types of equipment.
I dont mind 'licenses' so much. In real life you need a license and experience for many things. Truck drivers, pilots, lawyers, accountants, engineers, nurses, fast food workers, police officers, all have had to pass some kinds of tests and/or had certain amount of experience before they were given a license to do certain work, to get a certain job, or even to operate carry certain types of equipment.
The leveling isnt too long really, its just how you have to go about it that is, combat pilot liscense is a great example of it. Even very small variations in what your goals are and the outcome of things will make the game inherently more interesting, especially if for certain missions and the likes you hand out special weapons, ship variants etc.
Dont make them uber in any way just equal, and once it goes boom its over, but it gives people variety and more goals. So say i want the special tungsta mining centaur thats got 80 cargo but no turbo, i go through the series of missions ive found that reward you with it. Dont make the series the same everytime of course, but make it so doing roughly the same thing allows for the same outcome, although it can result in a different one (maybe give different rewards point weights, and then randomly pick the one having the most weight the most likely to be chosen.
Aim to design it so the normal everyday goals that we do now can be carried out more effectivly by doing certain things to receive equipment, information, etc. So the pirate can do a certain chain of spy missions and get a tracking beacon on a certain player for say 5 minutes, and the trader does a special breed of the trade guild missions, and they toss him a super profitable trade route, or the miner gets the aforementioned heavy miner. The list could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the general idea of it. Currently to level a skill you do exactly the same thing over and over, which quickly burns you out.
Dont make them uber in any way just equal, and once it goes boom its over, but it gives people variety and more goals. So say i want the special tungsta mining centaur thats got 80 cargo but no turbo, i go through the series of missions ive found that reward you with it. Dont make the series the same everytime of course, but make it so doing roughly the same thing allows for the same outcome, although it can result in a different one (maybe give different rewards point weights, and then randomly pick the one having the most weight the most likely to be chosen.
Aim to design it so the normal everyday goals that we do now can be carried out more effectivly by doing certain things to receive equipment, information, etc. So the pirate can do a certain chain of spy missions and get a tracking beacon on a certain player for say 5 minutes, and the trader does a special breed of the trade guild missions, and they toss him a super profitable trade route, or the miner gets the aforementioned heavy miner. The list could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the general idea of it. Currently to level a skill you do exactly the same thing over and over, which quickly burns you out.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8675
<---- Read my post here.
It's not about how long it takes to get a level. Ok ok currently it is. Because we can only spend so much time botting untill our brain rots. So what we need is something more FUN! Like raids. Read my post and I dare you to disagree.
/givemoney Devs 2c
<---- Read my post here.
It's not about how long it takes to get a level. Ok ok currently it is. Because we can only spend so much time botting untill our brain rots. So what we need is something more FUN! Like raids. Read my post and I dare you to disagree.
/givemoney Devs 2c