Forums » General
General Thoughts
I've tried to get into this game since starting beta here and have to say I'm disappointed. I actively still play Star Wars Galaxies and Eve so I think my expectations for complexity, storyline, and graphics where a little higher than most other players. I'm also in Beta for Jump to Lightspeed for SWG too though with the NDA I must limit what I say about it. Here is a collection of the things about VO I found. Since I never did have a mentor there could very well be things I've missed, if so let me know so I can take a look at them too.
Learning Curve - Difficult to really get information on anything from you to the missions you take. Everything is vague and generalized. As a beginner there isn't really a set direction to go. The tutorials are bad and this will keep many from getting into the game.
Interfaces - Spacestation interface makes me feel as if I'm playing a game on my Commodore 64. There is no connection to you as a player and the game. Aside from initial creation where I pick what faction I am I have no idea who I am in game.
Graphics - Background graphics in game are good, need to bring the spaceship models up to the same level. While to me this is important I could live with a lower poly count ship if the rest of the game was solid. The level of graphics between VO and SWG JTL are literally light years apart. As others have said Eve looks good but game play is off there.
Combat - Ships have very limited modifications they can do. IMO there isn't much strategy needed to fight here. Odd to me with all the space games I play not to have armor or shields to speak of. No real dogfighting skills are needed. I'd go with a twitch type system and force some skill into killing, like Freelancer, Wing Commander, or JTL. I've not seen any useful skills for any race either. This IMO is by far the weakest part of this game and one of the most essential for it to become a hit. JTL's combat is based on Twitch skills so aiming is required and the dogfights are simply cool, If you liked Freespace, Freelancer, or Wing Commander you would like this style. I feel more like I'm playing an arcade game in VO. The targeting needs a revamp too, the red box around the target looks odd to say the least, there are better ways to have done that.
Ships - I find my choices here very limiting. There is little configuration choices I can make. This will lead to many vet players running around with identical configurations and not much different.
Classes - Not seeing much in the way of effective classes in game. While I like to fight I've always kept builders and Explorer type classes. If all there is to do is combat this will get boring fast unless you like repetition.
Aside from the flamers I hope to get some feedback if I'm alone in my thoughts or I simply missed things that would change my mind on certain items, let me know.
Learning Curve - Difficult to really get information on anything from you to the missions you take. Everything is vague and generalized. As a beginner there isn't really a set direction to go. The tutorials are bad and this will keep many from getting into the game.
Interfaces - Spacestation interface makes me feel as if I'm playing a game on my Commodore 64. There is no connection to you as a player and the game. Aside from initial creation where I pick what faction I am I have no idea who I am in game.
Graphics - Background graphics in game are good, need to bring the spaceship models up to the same level. While to me this is important I could live with a lower poly count ship if the rest of the game was solid. The level of graphics between VO and SWG JTL are literally light years apart. As others have said Eve looks good but game play is off there.
Combat - Ships have very limited modifications they can do. IMO there isn't much strategy needed to fight here. Odd to me with all the space games I play not to have armor or shields to speak of. No real dogfighting skills are needed. I'd go with a twitch type system and force some skill into killing, like Freelancer, Wing Commander, or JTL. I've not seen any useful skills for any race either. This IMO is by far the weakest part of this game and one of the most essential for it to become a hit. JTL's combat is based on Twitch skills so aiming is required and the dogfights are simply cool, If you liked Freespace, Freelancer, or Wing Commander you would like this style. I feel more like I'm playing an arcade game in VO. The targeting needs a revamp too, the red box around the target looks odd to say the least, there are better ways to have done that.
Ships - I find my choices here very limiting. There is little configuration choices I can make. This will lead to many vet players running around with identical configurations and not much different.
Classes - Not seeing much in the way of effective classes in game. While I like to fight I've always kept builders and Explorer type classes. If all there is to do is combat this will get boring fast unless you like repetition.
Aside from the flamers I hope to get some feedback if I'm alone in my thoughts or I simply missed things that would change my mind on certain items, let me know.
[Off topic post deleted - Forum Moderator]
How advanced are you, snyper - in-game, I mean. There are alot of things you won't see until you are more advanced. In fact, there are many ship and weapon combos out there. And concerning ease of fighting/dog-fighting skills: try to duel me and we can talk again...Right now, I have the impression that you don't know what you talk about.
Concerning the graphics: I think the graphics are good enough. The comparison with a commodore 64 is way too hard. i wonder if you have ever used that machine. Still I agree that the current interface lack some elegance. I also would like to see some nicer
in-station stuff as in Wing-Commander or Vega-Strike.
Concerning the learning curve, I agree with you. It might be difficult for a newbie, I agree. In particular, it might remain unclear what the user can get after having lvled up...
/maso
Concerning the graphics: I think the graphics are good enough. The comparison with a commodore 64 is way too hard. i wonder if you have ever used that machine. Still I agree that the current interface lack some elegance. I also would like to see some nicer
in-station stuff as in Wing-Commander or Vega-Strike.
Concerning the learning curve, I agree with you. It might be difficult for a newbie, I agree. In particular, it might remain unclear what the user can get after having lvled up...
/maso
well u wanted feed-back so ill give ya some.
Learning curve- Yes the tutorials are absolutly horrid everyone will admit that. But the thing is theres really nothing to learn from the mission. You get a task, get it done, get paid for it. Simple enough and profitable.
Interfaces-Basically all you are doin right now is completing your missions and gettin cargo transports to Itani safly.
Graphics-agree
Combat-The only time there are limited modifacatons are when your in the "low levels". Then yes there arnt many things you can do with your ship. But pretty much your armor is your health its just not called armor. Personally i find dogfights on Vendetta quite fun (cept when its 5-1 and ur the 1 :]). The red box thing isnt that bad is it?
Ships- Again choices are based on levels. The more you work the higher the level you get, the more ships you can choose from.
Classes- Go find some APU-47's and go to town ;)
Everything else are just minor things that are usually fixed per update
Learning curve- Yes the tutorials are absolutly horrid everyone will admit that. But the thing is theres really nothing to learn from the mission. You get a task, get it done, get paid for it. Simple enough and profitable.
Interfaces-Basically all you are doin right now is completing your missions and gettin cargo transports to Itani safly.
Graphics-agree
Combat-The only time there are limited modifacatons are when your in the "low levels". Then yes there arnt many things you can do with your ship. But pretty much your armor is your health its just not called armor. Personally i find dogfights on Vendetta quite fun (cept when its 5-1 and ur the 1 :]). The red box thing isnt that bad is it?
Ships- Again choices are based on levels. The more you work the higher the level you get, the more ships you can choose from.
Classes- Go find some APU-47's and go to town ;)
Everything else are just minor things that are usually fixed per update
Maso -
I haven't PvP'd at all its all been PvE. At my toons skill level if you couldn't beat me you would have to really suck. The combat thus far is less than appealing to me to get me into it. Of course at the same time I'm also playing Jump to Lightspeed which I hope when its released you'll at least try so you can see skill. As I pointed out I'm not far into this game and having trouble getting into it.
As far as C64 - Yes I know it quite well I wrote many things on it back in the day, so you can now figure out I'm not a kid. Currently a VP in IT for a large company if that helps you. Yes C64 graphics was a little harsh but honestly very 90's type quality on many of the interfaces. As I said the backgrounds are nicer.
Viper-
Thanks I see some of my concerns are not alone. I know of two others that played this for a couple days and dropped beta since I've been alone.
In a time when objects polygon counts are in the millions this seems somewhat poor. Plus side is it will play on lower end machines. I can say with a 3.2gig running a x800 ATI video card I can't even get close to maxing graphics in SWG Jump to Lightspeed without a performance hit, the detail is that high.
I think the tutorial section is what made me loose intrest so fast. Hope that gets fixed fast. Along with good documentation.
As far as combat maybee I'll grind out some more and see what else it offers. It just seems simplistic compared to others is all I'm saying. Thats both good and bad depends what you want to do I guess.
Thanks so far to all.
I haven't PvP'd at all its all been PvE. At my toons skill level if you couldn't beat me you would have to really suck. The combat thus far is less than appealing to me to get me into it. Of course at the same time I'm also playing Jump to Lightspeed which I hope when its released you'll at least try so you can see skill. As I pointed out I'm not far into this game and having trouble getting into it.
As far as C64 - Yes I know it quite well I wrote many things on it back in the day, so you can now figure out I'm not a kid. Currently a VP in IT for a large company if that helps you. Yes C64 graphics was a little harsh but honestly very 90's type quality on many of the interfaces. As I said the backgrounds are nicer.
Viper-
Thanks I see some of my concerns are not alone. I know of two others that played this for a couple days and dropped beta since I've been alone.
In a time when objects polygon counts are in the millions this seems somewhat poor. Plus side is it will play on lower end machines. I can say with a 3.2gig running a x800 ATI video card I can't even get close to maxing graphics in SWG Jump to Lightspeed without a performance hit, the detail is that high.
I think the tutorial section is what made me loose intrest so fast. Hope that gets fixed fast. Along with good documentation.
As far as combat maybee I'll grind out some more and see what else it offers. It just seems simplistic compared to others is all I'm saying. Thats both good and bad depends what you want to do I guess.
Thanks so far to all.
[Off topic posts deleted. Forum Moderator]
whats with the offtopicness genka? cant you find another thread for that?
snyper:
Welcome to vendetta; I'll address a few of your comments as a long term player.
The learning curve is at present very high, the games tutorial is still undergoing changes and modifications, and at present is very very basic. Much of the mission content has yet to be added and there are a fair number of things that (i assume) are still being tested and modified by the devs that wont see the light of gameplay until very close to the actual release.
Unlike some other beta's i have been a part of that were largely "lets show off the 99% finished product" deals, vendetta is still actually under construction, so i ask you to please bear with us, or check us out again in a month or so.
The graphics are fairly good in space, but we all agree that the station interface is pretty bad. It was meant to be functional and is (we hope) going to recieve at least a partial facelift before release. We've had more or less the same station interface for, ummm longer than i really want to admit, its been a lower priority. The ships are also fairly old models, once again getting the graphics up has not been a high preiority. all the eye candy in the world wont help if there is nothing behind it, so thats what the devs have been concentrating on. As i mentioned earlier the missions are largely not added yet, I personally have hopes of seeing them by the beginning of next week, but that is in the hands of the devs.
The ship modifications are limited at low levels, at some of the higher levels there are more choices, however some things still need worked on, and the devs are aware of the various suggestions and comments concerning this.
I'm not sure what you mean about combat when you say that <<there isn't much strategy needed to fight here>>
The I in the AI needs some work, so botting is fairly repetitive, but the PVP combat is where vendetta shines.
The last thing i will comment on is the lack of things to do, this once again ties into the missions being largely absent. At present what we have are mainly placeholders designed to test the mission start, end, and reward code. My favorite comparison is to say its like the devs built a slide projector that can grab any slide out of its stock and display it at any time. To make sure its grabbing the right slides the devs loaded it with a bunch of clear slides labeled "slide 1, slide 2, etc etc" and that is what we see at the present.
In the meantime i hope you continue to try vendetta, if you see me online (i'll be spellcast, the one and only) feel free to message me if you have any questions. While i dont use the mentor command itself, i enjoy passing out information and helping players get a feel for the game.
snyper:
Welcome to vendetta; I'll address a few of your comments as a long term player.
The learning curve is at present very high, the games tutorial is still undergoing changes and modifications, and at present is very very basic. Much of the mission content has yet to be added and there are a fair number of things that (i assume) are still being tested and modified by the devs that wont see the light of gameplay until very close to the actual release.
Unlike some other beta's i have been a part of that were largely "lets show off the 99% finished product" deals, vendetta is still actually under construction, so i ask you to please bear with us, or check us out again in a month or so.
The graphics are fairly good in space, but we all agree that the station interface is pretty bad. It was meant to be functional and is (we hope) going to recieve at least a partial facelift before release. We've had more or less the same station interface for, ummm longer than i really want to admit, its been a lower priority. The ships are also fairly old models, once again getting the graphics up has not been a high preiority. all the eye candy in the world wont help if there is nothing behind it, so thats what the devs have been concentrating on. As i mentioned earlier the missions are largely not added yet, I personally have hopes of seeing them by the beginning of next week, but that is in the hands of the devs.
The ship modifications are limited at low levels, at some of the higher levels there are more choices, however some things still need worked on, and the devs are aware of the various suggestions and comments concerning this.
I'm not sure what you mean about combat when you say that <<there isn't much strategy needed to fight here>>
The I in the AI needs some work, so botting is fairly repetitive, but the PVP combat is where vendetta shines.
The last thing i will comment on is the lack of things to do, this once again ties into the missions being largely absent. At present what we have are mainly placeholders designed to test the mission start, end, and reward code. My favorite comparison is to say its like the devs built a slide projector that can grab any slide out of its stock and display it at any time. To make sure its grabbing the right slides the devs loaded it with a bunch of clear slides labeled "slide 1, slide 2, etc etc" and that is what we see at the present.
In the meantime i hope you continue to try vendetta, if you see me online (i'll be spellcast, the one and only) feel free to message me if you have any questions. While i dont use the mentor command itself, i enjoy passing out information and helping players get a feel for the game.
What I find ironic is that you're comparing a game with a developer consisting of 4 people (!!!) - with SOE who has had over a year to establish the base game (Galaxies) and has been working on their 'expansion' since then.
I'm sure JTL will be fine, but you can't play it unless you're already playing Galaxies (which I played for over a year and quit due to boredom and the fact that the developers flip-flopped over everything and nerfed everything that made the game fun and/or challenging).
I'm sure JTL will be fine, but you can't play it unless you're already playing Galaxies (which I played for over a year and quit due to boredom and the fact that the developers flip-flopped over everything and nerfed everything that made the game fun and/or challenging).
Ack. Keep in mind that it's a) opinions and b) comparisons are in fact quite valid. Vendetta competes head on with EVE, as far as a presumptive buyer with one game in each hand is concerned. I detest EVE and think that Vendetta has far more promise, but still, I agree with the majority of the points. Vendetta has weak spots - if Guild want food on their plates, they need fixing sooner or later. Better to be frank about them than beating around the bush.
snyper - your criticisms are valid, but how about coupling these criticisms with suggestions to make the game better? How would you fix these issues if it were up to you? (Post them in suggestions)
Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course, but it would be far more helpful to the devs if you offered some suggestions along with your criticism.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course, but it would be far more helpful to the devs if you offered some suggestions along with your criticism.
I see Genka is the forum troll.
Phaserlight - I agree I will post suggestions or at least a wish list.
kriss - Agreed, I don't care much for Eve either yet still maintain 3 accounts when I want to dust off the Battleships and kill things or just build. I'd hate to see a premature release hurt this product as many players try games and if they are bad when released they don't come back. This is true of a great deal of the games I play still today.
Maelstrom - Agreed that this is a smaller team but reguardless of how many poeple work for them they will be directly compared to one that is bigger. Yes SWG has issues and even with Jedi I'm bored more than not, there is little in the game I can't solo so there isn't much need for groups though I lead a guild there. JTL is an expansion but can really be played without ground skills if you chose. But it isn't my purpose to go down that road.
Spellcast -
Thanks for the well worded post. I agree most beta's are almost complete before the public ever sees it as spy posts or reviews can kill a game as well.
The most universal thing I think I've gotten so far is there is much more for me in the game at higher levels. That was my primary worry since I can't see that from where I'm at. I feel closer to a mouse on the little circle track at the moment.
As I'm too low level to effectivly PvP I'm stuck botting, which leads to boredom. I think I'll search out a mentor and see what I'm missing here as from almost all here I'm missing one thing or another.
I'm not giving up, not my style. Just wanted to make sure there is a purpose to stick with it and not just what I see.
Again thanks to all that have responed. Yes even you genka(/pet troll)
Phaserlight - I agree I will post suggestions or at least a wish list.
kriss - Agreed, I don't care much for Eve either yet still maintain 3 accounts when I want to dust off the Battleships and kill things or just build. I'd hate to see a premature release hurt this product as many players try games and if they are bad when released they don't come back. This is true of a great deal of the games I play still today.
Maelstrom - Agreed that this is a smaller team but reguardless of how many poeple work for them they will be directly compared to one that is bigger. Yes SWG has issues and even with Jedi I'm bored more than not, there is little in the game I can't solo so there isn't much need for groups though I lead a guild there. JTL is an expansion but can really be played without ground skills if you chose. But it isn't my purpose to go down that road.
Spellcast -
Thanks for the well worded post. I agree most beta's are almost complete before the public ever sees it as spy posts or reviews can kill a game as well.
The most universal thing I think I've gotten so far is there is much more for me in the game at higher levels. That was my primary worry since I can't see that from where I'm at. I feel closer to a mouse on the little circle track at the moment.
As I'm too low level to effectivly PvP I'm stuck botting, which leads to boredom. I think I'll search out a mentor and see what I'm missing here as from almost all here I'm missing one thing or another.
I'm not giving up, not my style. Just wanted to make sure there is a purpose to stick with it and not just what I see.
Again thanks to all that have responed. Yes even you genka(/pet troll)
When searching for mentors, anyone in the Veteran's Guild could probably help you out some. We've all been around since the Alpha days, so we've definitely been around.
Also, feel free to ask any question in plain ol' chat. We are (with a few notable exceptions) pretty nice people, and will do our best to answer a nicely-asked query. The currently available guides (moderators/full-time mentors) are myself (Ku Genin or Lodestone in-game), Sherpa, Criterion and a few more. Message any of us.
I agree with a lot of his points, and we're well aware of them and working to address them, but I'm a little confused about this one:
"No real dogfighting skills are needed. I'd go with a twitch type system and force some skill into killing, like Freelancer, Wing Commander, or JTL."
I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying, exactly. Our combat/flight model is entirely twitch-based and realtime, and it requires a great deal of skill to take on the higher end NPCs, let alone players. Granted, we do not usually have the the classical "fly in loops while shooting" flightsim-like style of dogfight that some people expect. But what we do have is an incredibly powerful and more realistic flight model, which I think lends itself to much cooler and more interesting combat scenarios. Certainly in PvP. You could argue that there's a difference in taste, as far as combat styles go.. but certainly not a lack of required skill.
As far as graphics and such.. the engine is very capable, but we don't have the resources needed to really show it off with good content yet. The newer ships (Prometheus, Valkyria, Marauder) took on the order of a man-month apiece to create. We only have one artist, and he's been working only on missions and gameplay for the last year.
"No real dogfighting skills are needed. I'd go with a twitch type system and force some skill into killing, like Freelancer, Wing Commander, or JTL."
I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying, exactly. Our combat/flight model is entirely twitch-based and realtime, and it requires a great deal of skill to take on the higher end NPCs, let alone players. Granted, we do not usually have the the classical "fly in loops while shooting" flightsim-like style of dogfight that some people expect. But what we do have is an incredibly powerful and more realistic flight model, which I think lends itself to much cooler and more interesting combat scenarios. Certainly in PvP. You could argue that there's a difference in taste, as far as combat styles go.. but certainly not a lack of required skill.
As far as graphics and such.. the engine is very capable, but we don't have the resources needed to really show it off with good content yet. The newer ships (Prometheus, Valkyria, Marauder) took on the order of a man-month apiece to create. We only have one artist, and he's been working only on missions and gameplay for the last year.
Incarnate: its actually quite true. Right now, you don't need skill, you need to take a ship with a L port and boost as fast as you can, within 300 meters unleash all chaos-swarms and geminis and keep boosting. if it fails, you go somewhere, dock, reload.
if not, you keep boosting until the homers he sent for you are gone, and then return to mop it up.
if not, you keep boosting until the homers he sent for you are gone, and then return to mop it up.
Spider, I may be in the minority but I think there is a great deal of skill involved in successfully using homing missiles. Perhaps they do need to be toned down a little, but with the change they have greatly opened up dogfights that used to take place within a very limited amount of space. While they may not take much skill to deploy *offensively* they take a great deal of skill to take on *defensively.* You have to know how to boost at right angles to the incoming missiles so you can dodge them without giving up ground, or how to duck behind asteroids to cause the missiles to crash. Energy weapons are just the opposite, they take a lot of skill to effectively deploy *offensively* but defending against energy takes no skill whatsoever. You just have to hold down A and E. Rockets are probably a balance between the two, you do have to employ some pretty fancy tactics to dodge them, but you also have to aim with them to a certain extent.
Yea, I'd say being the only one puts you in the minority.
The troll actually contributed the the discussion. Will wonders ever cease.