Were you planning on re-implementing the Race Sectors?

I miss them badly...

Yeah, we are.

My only gripe with racing is that arcade users get a huge advantage over physics users.

=(

So, switch to arcade and practice.

Or just practise some more with physics.. you can take some corners much better with physics. And you can of course keep better track of the competition.

Arolte, shouldn't there be any little advantage somewhere for us arcade users? You physics guys get all the breaks! :-)

Carmen Ibanez

Arolte, I don't understand how it's unfair one way or the other. There's a key on your keyboard bound to switch between the two; press it. I used to flip back and forth in the racetracks.

Hmm. This would be pretty easy to do. Seems like a good candidate for some empty sectors in Dau or something.

Some people use one or the other exclusively. It's like choosing between manual and automatic transmission for cars. Yes, there's a way to switch 'em, but.... *sigh* arcade mode is so.... arcadey and crappy. Sorry, I just don't like it. People feel the same way with cars. Some people who have learned and enjoyed driving stick absolutely hate driving automatic. The point is you shouldn't punish the player for liking one or the other flight model and sticking with it.

I just don't think it's a good idea to give arcade users an automatic advantage when they enter the race. Here's a possible solution that'll make everyone happy and allow 100% fairness: Make the race sector disable one of the two flight models when they enter a race. When they leave it it will revert back to the user settings. That way people can compete in arcade and physics races without allowing anyone to have a distinct advantage.

Look, let me put it this way. Vendetta is going to have thousands of players eventually. Are you going to tell me that everyone who enters a race will definitely know about the advantages and disadvantages that arcade or physics mode has? Are you seriously going to count on having every contestant manually switch to arcade mode or otherwise face losing the race from the very beginning just because they didn't or forgot to?

I think that the same argument could be made for combat.

IMO, if the same opportunities are available to all, it's as fair as it can be without seriously limiting choices. If we are to mandate 100% fairness, then we have to eliminate choice and it's down to random number generators.

Now that I think of it, I think I actually switched to physics on some of the old race tracks once I got to know the route well enough to anticipate the turns.

As for the car analogy, let's dispense with the lower cost, greater torque, and improved fuel efficiency that one gets with a manual transmission.

yes.

I switch from arcade to physics constantly. Whatever helps me to be more efficient.

I know what you mean; I can't stand driving auto either. But I don't equate this analogy at all. And I don't accept the argument that you're punished one way or the other. In a car you can't switch between auto and manual with the touch of a button (or if you can, you still have an auto with a torque converter so you don't have any of the advantages of a manual transmission..)

And yes, I expect people to know what the fastest way to get through the race course is, and if it involves switching flight modes, so be it. What if the player "forgets" which way the next turn goes? Oh no, they lose just because they forgot! That's not fair!

Also, it's not even clear that you have a distinct advantage using arcade mode. You can emulate everything arcade mode does in physics mode with your fingers. There's nothing really special about it.

Anyway, I think you're arguing just to argue now; your points aren't very compelling.

*sigh*

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. But whatever. Have it your way. Your game. Is a little open mindedness too much to ask for? It bothers me to see how some of you just blow off these suggestions without much thought. You'd think someone who has played the game like a crack addict, night and day, for more than two years now would have some credibility. Guess not.

Hey Arolte, what is the advantage of arcade anyhow? I raced in physics, and I won sometimes (considering that I was in a centurion racing valks, no mean feat).

I've competed in quite a number of Centurion (hvy/hvy) races back when the race sectors were still available. There were about 4-6 players I raced with, both physics and arcade users. In every single race the arcade users came out on top. How did I know all the winners were arcade users? I asked every one of them. It wasn't even a close race, they simply zoomed right through the course like it was nothing.

The problem with physics mode is that you leak a lot of power during sharp turns. Rather than going straight after changing direction, your momentum drags you along your previous course until you finally gain enough speed to overcome it. This happens at every turn, no matter how early you try to make them.

Arcade users don't have this problem. When they change directions in arcade mode you essentially autobrake, which allows you to focus more thrust in the new direction you're facing. Basically there's minimal drag effect, allowing you to make sharper turns a lot more quickly and with minimum loss of thrust.

Anyone who has raced the tracks knows what I'm talking about. I wish there could be a way to still test it out, to prove to those who are still skeptical, but I guess you'll have to wait and see later on. There's no way to overcome these obvious differences, no matter how good of a pilot you are. If you have any intention of winning, you either use it or you lose.

arolte:

The drag effect is because you aren't doing it right. The arcade flight model has the same momentum drag as the physics mode, it's just countered more efficiently because the computer kicks the thrust in at just the right angle. You could do the same thing if you had a microcomputer wired into your brain. Bind the toggle to a key and switch if you think arcade has such a great advantage.

You ask others to show an open mind, yet you are ignoring the fact that you HAVE the same advantage the others do. To use your car analogy:
Lets picture 2 drivers and 2 nice brand new oldsmobiles each equipped with a GPS navigation system. One driver uses it, likes the push button mapping and the route planning it gives him, he gets to his destinations quickly and efficiently.
one driver preferes the old paper map system. He may not get his results as fast, and they are occasionally not as efficeint or up to date, but he isnt being "punished" because he likes his paper map. He has the system right there, he CHOOSES not to use it.

You are CHOOSING not to use the arcade model. Stop whining and let andy concentrate on real development problems.

Hmm. It's been some time, but my recollection of taking hard turns in physics went like this (really boring) account:

Let's say that I'm going along a straight pipe, with a 90 degree turn straight up. Physics mode.

As I near the turn, I drop to the bottom of the pipe, nose up, and hit turbo just before entering the turn

as I enter the turn, I should be moving at roughly a 45 degree angle forward and upward - toward the far wall of the new pipe.

before hitting that wall, I rotate roughly 65 degrees upward and toward the opposite wall and turbo again, propelling me along the new pipe on a nearly straight course. Some minor corrections are needed thereafter, depending on the angle of the next turn.

I found this to be faster than arcade on courses I knew well, and I posted faster speeds. Incidentally, I generally use arcade unless I'm in combat, so I am proficient enough with that.

Maybe it's because the physics users suck and the arcade players are better?

(c'mon guys, I'm kidding)

Arcade automates some things you have to do on your own in physics (i.e. lateral thrusters). This takes your mind off the details and lets you focus on the turn.

<12:48AM....raybondo...."Yeah, we are.">

Well, there you have it folks....topic concluded!