Forums » General
For those of you who don't routinely check the news, you will want to check this:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html
http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html
The /mentor thing is a cool idea. I'm not sure about the voting option though. That can easily be abused. I'd say it's acceptable for a game that has player hosted servers, since you can just move to another server without abusers, but not an MMORPG where you're stuck in one place. Bad idea IMO. Hiring more guides would be better. The human element is needed.
If the person is mean, don't offer to be their mentor in the first place. If you truly do a good job at mentoring them, they'll give you a positive vote.
No, I meant the voting option for muting players. Sorry, should've clarified that.
Arolte has a good point...
voting: after 30 votes, the count is reset, right? and there should be a limit on how many times a player can vote to mute other players. (I wouldn't want some bored person sitting in a station, voting to mute each active player once, for example. I wouldn't want some 30 inane people doing that... hehe)
mentoring: does the player have to be brand new, level 0/0/0/0?
can a lower level player mentor a higher level one?
how many people can someone mentor? how many mentors can a newb have? (these last two questions also have a connection with how much can the mentoring program be exploited..)
mentoring: does the player have to be brand new, level 0/0/0/0?
can a lower level player mentor a higher level one?
how many people can someone mentor? how many mentors can a newb have? (these last two questions also have a connection with how much can the mentoring program be exploited..)
I cant wait for n00bs so i can go out there and start helping them. The mentor system makes it seem like its an actual job. Cant wait :D
woo. I can't wait to become a newb and be mentored... if anyone wants to play with the mentor feature, I'm interested!
(/me pulls out that baby n00b account)mm. would be fun testing
(/me pulls out that baby n00b account)mm. would be fun testing
I wonder if we could try ideas out before picking them apart? It will probably be quite some time before /mute even gets used.
/mentor is not fully implemented, so I expect many of the questions asked about that currently have no answer.
/mentor is not fully implemented, so I expect many of the questions asked about that currently have no answer.
sorry if I sounded critical; merely curious. I'm sure the devs know the answers to those questions, but the better choice of action is for me to try the system myself before asking.
/me ambles off to see if it's possible to mentor n00bs of other nations
/me ambles off to see if it's possible to mentor n00bs of other nations
The /mute command probably won't be used anytime soon, but it has the potential to be abused later on. What's to stop a player from creating multiple characters or accounts to mute someone? Nothing. Perhaps it's a temporary solution for the lack of guides, but I'd highly suggest not implementing it as a permanent solution.
You can't just throw your arms up and say that it won't be a problem in the immediate future. When you'll eventually have thousands of players to look after in the vast universe, it's going to take more than a voting system to get the job done. As the population grows, the potential for abuse will just keep growing with it.
Think of it as a security leak for an OS. If you know there's a potential problem, you're probably better off fixing it before something bad happens. Same situation applies here. I'd rather not wait to see it become a problem. I don't see why it's so hard for people to use /ignore. It doesn't offend anybody and it gets the job done.
Sorry if I'm overreacting here, but I'm extra paranoid when it comes to giving the general public (especially an online community) such powers. Of all the online games I've played containing a voting system, I have yet to see one that hasn't been abused. I fear Vendetta may fall into the same hands sooner or later.
Let's give a possible scenario and go through what the possible consequences would be:
Let's say there's a really good pirate out there who is good at his job. Because he's so good at pirating he is hated by most Vendetta traders. The thing that really gets these traders is that they can't kill him to get revenge because he's just so damned good. So they decide to punish him another way. They get together and /mute this player whose only crime was to pirate traders, which is a legitimate form of gameplay.
Falling victim to something like this would really suck, especially since you have nowhere else to go to play. You're stuck with this one universe if things turn bad. So the pirate has no choice but to send off an e-mail to the devs reporting this incident of abuse since he wishes to be unmuted. And probably the worst part is that it would be a waste of time for the devs to investigate the situation and take action.
You can't just throw your arms up and say that it won't be a problem in the immediate future. When you'll eventually have thousands of players to look after in the vast universe, it's going to take more than a voting system to get the job done. As the population grows, the potential for abuse will just keep growing with it.
Think of it as a security leak for an OS. If you know there's a potential problem, you're probably better off fixing it before something bad happens. Same situation applies here. I'd rather not wait to see it become a problem. I don't see why it's so hard for people to use /ignore. It doesn't offend anybody and it gets the job done.
Sorry if I'm overreacting here, but I'm extra paranoid when it comes to giving the general public (especially an online community) such powers. Of all the online games I've played containing a voting system, I have yet to see one that hasn't been abused. I fear Vendetta may fall into the same hands sooner or later.
Let's give a possible scenario and go through what the possible consequences would be:
Let's say there's a really good pirate out there who is good at his job. Because he's so good at pirating he is hated by most Vendetta traders. The thing that really gets these traders is that they can't kill him to get revenge because he's just so damned good. So they decide to punish him another way. They get together and /mute this player whose only crime was to pirate traders, which is a legitimate form of gameplay.
Falling victim to something like this would really suck, especially since you have nowhere else to go to play. You're stuck with this one universe if things turn bad. So the pirate has no choice but to send off an e-mail to the devs reporting this incident of abuse since he wishes to be unmuted. And probably the worst part is that it would be a waste of time for the devs to investigate the situation and take action.
As usual, a few moments of thought would awnser most of your questions.
Muting is 1 vote=1 account, you cannot create more characters and do it.
Also, in the long term, as in pay-to-play, people will only have ONE account, and those with more will be well-respected testers, and wouldnt abuse the system anyways. Guide/dev unmute too, btw.
Also, this entire system is logged, if there is abuse, it will be dealt with. I've got a hunch that you dont like this system because there's a very good chance you'll be muted often. Not because you're a good pirate, or whatever, but just the fact that you anger a very large amount of people, and most just don't want to hear you.
You do have some valid points, however, and I guess we'll just have to see how it pans out, if abuse is a problem, or not.
Muting is 1 vote=1 account, you cannot create more characters and do it.
Also, in the long term, as in pay-to-play, people will only have ONE account, and those with more will be well-respected testers, and wouldnt abuse the system anyways. Guide/dev unmute too, btw.
Also, this entire system is logged, if there is abuse, it will be dealt with. I've got a hunch that you dont like this system because there's a very good chance you'll be muted often. Not because you're a good pirate, or whatever, but just the fact that you anger a very large amount of people, and most just don't want to hear you.
You do have some valid points, however, and I guess we'll just have to see how it pans out, if abuse is a problem, or not.
Errr....I wonder if we could tone down the personal comments a bit. I'd hate to have to squash valid points to extinguish a flame war.
Actually, some MMOs have succeeded with entirely player-enforced rule systems. A Tale In The Desert, for instance (which, granted, is a non combative MMO that only focuses on trade skills), uses a system of "laws" created by the players and voted into action. The developers still have to approve things and may veto anything, but fundamentally the players govern themselves. This is just one possible step in that direction. And yes, exploitation of the system may occur. But if our experiences with the guide system have tought us anything.. (and this is no reflection on Whistler, who's been fantastic) it's that Guides are NOT the direction we want to pursue.
I'm sure we'll have a degree of trial and error with the voting system, just like everything else. But I think the player userbase managing most of their own problems is the best direction for us in the long run.
I'm sure we'll have a degree of trial and error with the voting system, just like everything else. But I think the player userbase managing most of their own problems is the best direction for us in the long run.
I was involved in some of the "Virtual Community" online worlds of the late 90's and early 00's such as World's Away and There. I credit Vaserius the Nefarius (Vaz) with teaching me this: In building simulations of real communities, one must make a decision whether or not to accept that all communities (in life or virtual) always include a "criminal" element when they reach a certain size.
Choosing to control a society to the point necessary to squash criminals severely limits the actions of eveyone else and usually feels quite restrictive. I think of KOL, the kids part of AOL when I think about going that route. Rules are imposed and enforced externally. The criminal element will remain and will find a myriad of other ways to victimize others, and their victims will continue to be frustrated. Citizens who normally wouldn't rebel may do so in response to opression.
Choosing to allow a community to govern itself to some degree decreases the desire for some citizens to rebel (though a criminal element will always be present) and permits greater freedom for all. The criminal element will still be there, as will frustration from their victims. It's a very tricky balance though. Not everyone will be completely happy either way.
Choosing to control a society to the point necessary to squash criminals severely limits the actions of eveyone else and usually feels quite restrictive. I think of KOL, the kids part of AOL when I think about going that route. Rules are imposed and enforced externally. The criminal element will remain and will find a myriad of other ways to victimize others, and their victims will continue to be frustrated. Citizens who normally wouldn't rebel may do so in response to opression.
Choosing to allow a community to govern itself to some degree decreases the desire for some citizens to rebel (though a criminal element will always be present) and permits greater freedom for all. The criminal element will still be there, as will frustration from their victims. It's a very tricky balance though. Not everyone will be completely happy either way.
... which is the basic idea of a democracy. i like it, simply because i believe that a certain amount of freedom should be granted to the users.
i don't know the examples people brought up, and i don't know many other mmog's, but in my opinion, this is the kind of "government" (every online game has one) that works best for vendetta.
i don't know the examples people brought up, and i don't know many other mmog's, but in my opinion, this is the kind of "government" (every online game has one) that works best for vendetta.
My hat is off to the Forum Moderator. His is one of the most reasoned and logical responses to a complex issue that I have ever read in this venue.
Incarnate, I guess our experiences vary greatly. If it works out, great. I'm all for testing it out still. But just from personal experience I've seen how voting can take a turn for the worst. Normally it wouldn't bother me because most of the games I play today contain player hosted servers where anyone can leave and join another game if they have a problem. But this is not the case with Vendetta. Anyway, I guess it would be fair to hold off on further criticism to see how it turns out. So I'll leave it at that.
In response to alienb's flametacular post:
>hunch that you dont like this system because there's a very good chance you'll be
>muted often. Not because you're a good pirate, or whatever, but just the fact that
>you anger a very large amount of people, and most just don't want to hear you.
I've used /ignore and I'm happy with it. In fact it has stopped most of the bitching I have had to deal with when I pirate someone. If I anger a very large amount of people, as you say, they are free to /ignore me in return. I personally haven't had any problems with this wonderful system. It's effective and it doesn't offend anyone.
What's being questioned here is whether it's right to /mute someone based on the actions of another player, especially if they're legitimately playing the game. Not what they type in chat. Before the new universe update, I was surprised by the various inappropriate comments I had received just by pirating someone and not saying a single word (or lightly taunting them as a role player--"Die, Itani scum!").
That to me indicates that some people cannot control their anger just by playing the game alone. They take the game way too seriously and they have no concept of role playing. Anyway, it's that type of anger which can lead to the abuse of the /mute system. That's what I was referring to. But anyway, in all fairness I'll wait to see how it works...
In response to alienb's flametacular post:
>hunch that you dont like this system because there's a very good chance you'll be
>muted often. Not because you're a good pirate, or whatever, but just the fact that
>you anger a very large amount of people, and most just don't want to hear you.
I've used /ignore and I'm happy with it. In fact it has stopped most of the bitching I have had to deal with when I pirate someone. If I anger a very large amount of people, as you say, they are free to /ignore me in return. I personally haven't had any problems with this wonderful system. It's effective and it doesn't offend anyone.
What's being questioned here is whether it's right to /mute someone based on the actions of another player, especially if they're legitimately playing the game. Not what they type in chat. Before the new universe update, I was surprised by the various inappropriate comments I had received just by pirating someone and not saying a single word (or lightly taunting them as a role player--"Die, Itani scum!").
That to me indicates that some people cannot control their anger just by playing the game alone. They take the game way too seriously and they have no concept of role playing. Anyway, it's that type of anger which can lead to the abuse of the /mute system. That's what I was referring to. But anyway, in all fairness I'll wait to see how it works...
I hope Arolte doesn't mind me using him as an example, but yesterday, we ran into each other in serco space. He claimed he was "out pirating" and came in close to my ship. I fired a warning shot and was quickly destroyed.
I *was* rather miffed, because I was in a Hog, and had not been carrying cargo. But I calmed down, and the two of us had a reasonable chat about stuff related to the game... and I learned that the reason he moved in closer was not to attack, but to check out what ship I was in and the color scheme I was using.
Really, the problem in the community is not that people anger others, it's that people who become angered are unable to calm themselves down. This is a problem of yours, alienb. Don't call the kettle black.
I *was* rather miffed, because I was in a Hog, and had not been carrying cargo. But I calmed down, and the two of us had a reasonable chat about stuff related to the game... and I learned that the reason he moved in closer was not to attack, but to check out what ship I was in and the color scheme I was using.
Really, the problem in the community is not that people anger others, it's that people who become angered are unable to calm themselves down. This is a problem of yours, alienb. Don't call the kettle black.
Zoom function doesnt work, huh?