This is something that has bugged me for a long time, and sometimes I find myself guilty of it as well. So before I start, I would like to make clear that I am NOT pointing fingers at anyone, except, maybe, myself.

I want to deal with the nature of combat unique to a social RPing game like Vendetta. I would like to make some appeals to history as well as movies (as movies are a powerful influence on games).

First off, since when was a combatant required to justify his actions to his enemy? It sounds trivial, but the most common reaction to being killed is a "wtf why'd you do that?" question, which sometimes prompts a "stfu I'm a pirate" reply. Now, if the Itani marauder was sent to 18, it makes no sense whatsoever to see communication between the Serco valk in 9 and the Itani pilot in the 18 station. This is unrealistic and really takes away from the game. The obvious solution is to remove general chat from in-game, so that any communication happening between two ships is either on a nation frequency, a private message, or a sector-wide ("distress channel?") message. In Star Wars, you never see X-Wings and Tie-fighters saying "hey dude back off or die" to each other. Likewise, in Star Trek, a battle's messages are not broadcast around the galaxy.

Secondly, the logical justifications really get to me. Say I pick a fight with someone, or vice versa, and one of us dies to either the "boosting rocket ram," railing the guy as he runs to the station, or backpedaling. The losing pilot complains about the "cheapness" of the tactic used against him. At this point, I'd like to point out that in gun fights, there are only winners and losers, survivors and corpses. The same applies dogfights. There are only winners and losers, and even if the winner rocket-rams you, if he survives and you don't, you've lost. That said, rocket-ramming is very dangerous, and while most of you (the community) will say that a rocket-rammer is usually a half-n00b/competent pilot enjoying his first taste of speed and destruction, I'd like to point out that Icarus, and for the longest time, Phoenix, have both used the triple-rocket loadout on their Valkyries. Both pilots are far from being "just competent," so perhaps the politics of the term can die a little.

Lastly, I'd like to touch again on the issue of global chat a little. The only reason for global chat is social interaction and flaming, in my opinion. Any useful hiring of escorts, agreeing to CTF, target a specific person, or start a convoy all happens within teamchat or groupchat, as globalchat would warn the targeted players. So if a player wants to pick a fight with someone, they'll insult them in front of everyone online to move the target to anger and possibly rash actions. When one of them dies, the victor will taunt the loser in global chat to bring shame/humiliation/whatever on the loser.

Because of this, I am going to stop using global chat. If I want to contact someone, it will be in sector, team, or group chat. Frankly, I'm sick of the bitching and flames that happen over global chat, so I will no longer be using it, and will not reply to any attempts to "hail" or "raise" me on global chat.

First off about the combat stuff: I have been saying this for a long long time.

if its 3vs1 well that gives the people more chances to survive the fight. I don't think in WW2 pilots said "No don't help me its not fair to the Nazi's/Allies"

Same with running from a fight. Especially those that you don't start. Why should I not run if I know I cannot win. Seems stupid to stay and die, unless there is a purpose to it(like others getting out of the sector)

Global chat has its problems...but until the game is released and has a lot more people playing it is important I think. It would be nice to be able to disable it though if you wished. So you could still see Sector Team Group and PM but not have global show up.

Hear Hear, All in agreement say 'Aye'

Aye

Genka, read RPing II. Note the external and internal regulations. To change such a mentality, there have to be external changes. Don't think that "we" as a community have to change something. "If mushrooms grew in our mouths, we wouldn't have to go pick them," is a Russian proverb. If everyone loved everyone else, we wouldn't need a FM or guide. But human nature is corrupt and that's why we have problems. Facts of life.

Believe me, you will be surprised at how many people who might be thought of as "jackass PKers" suddenly change when new external regulations are put into place. All they (we?) want to do is have fun in the game. Blowing things up is about as much as you can do. Trading is only means to that end. When a reputation system is put in place, all of a sudden, maintaining a pristine reputation is "fun" as well, and it's a goal to be accomplished.

I've gone to using multilog, and now that I've figured it out, Vendetta has lost a ton of it's chat-roomness, at least to me.

<http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=3404&page=4>

- How to use multilog, for those of you who don't know.

I agree Durgia. I really get a kick out of someone who attacks me (sometimes when typing) with one or more pilots, and then trashtalks me as I go repair. Multilog works wonders.... If something is said, the little number corresponding to the log turns red to show you there's a new message.

As long as sector chat stays social as opposed to just for business, this'd be the perfect setup.

Oh, and I completely agree on the combat issues.

ok first of all you guys are taking this game too seriously. This isn't exactly WWII here, it's a MMORPG in the making, and until we have more balanced and fair weapons and sector for all you should'nt treat it like the real world at all. The game at this point is more of a get used to and have fun kind of game, but the way it's turning out, it doesn't seem like that at all.

Camps your first reason about when you kill someone, there are only 2 kinds of people that say that, 1) The newb who hasn't gotten to know the players of the game and doesn't expect it and 2) the person who trusts you and then all the sudden gets killed by you for no apparent reason.

Also your last thing, to get rid of the global chat at this point would be the biggest mistake you could make, mostly because right now it's fun to use the global chat. Many people come on the game and just talk on the global chat, i know i've decided to stop playing for the day and just talk since there's nothing better to do. So until we have a more wider variety of things to do, global chat must stay, otherwise I know i wouldn't be playing as much.

This is just my take on it atm, because as I see it, we aren't in the midst of WW2, we are 3 differenct teams just flying around trying to make some money and have fun, and if your constantly being grouped up on, it takes away from that fun dramatically. Unless of course your that kind of person who decided to egg people on.

I completely agree on the combat thing
When i'm in a Centaur and get attacked by 2 fighters, I just shrug it off as part of the game, and start again, it's easy enough to make decent credits, and get ships and weapons, there's no point in arguing as to why you were killed, i just make a note of who it was that killed me, and if i see him flying around maybe i'll jump him for a change :D

For the global chat i'd say get rid of it, and lets decide on a sector for the chatters
if you wanna chat and relax, go to a certain sector and chat using the sector channel, not have to worry about people coming in and firing, and if someone does, then the chatters could help each other out, or you could make it so nobody can get hurt in that sector, or you could do the opposite so that you can challenge team members to a duel and have a good laugh, there's lots of possibilities :)

Cheers -- Cam

i agree with about 75% of SC's post.
about the unprovoked attacks: if it's a tk, i know the player probably does not have enough skill or is too cowardly to face me, also it was my fault for not paying attention.
something that gets to me is when people attack me, i kill them, and they whine.

Jm, I understand your position, but at least from my reading, you fall closer to the QuakeSpace type of player than a RPing one. This was evidenced by your response to my not hostile warning: "it's a f***ing game."

I agree, it is a game, but you miss several important aspects of it. First off, it is set in space. Even games like UT have storylines. Secondly, as players, we can build reputations, histories, and personalities as we see fit. If I have come up with a way of saying I'm not hostile, for you to say "it's a F***ING GAME!" really destroys any sense of role-playing. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

The newbie who doesn't know the game should use teamchat, and it's something I have all gold/blue newbies do. If you're killed by a trusted player, ask them why, in private message!!!!! the "WTF loser why'd you kill me" does not need to be broadcasted to everyone.

And I know what you're saying about people who just come on and talk.. but couldn't that be done in a chat room outside the game?

But we diverge, and this was just one of three points in my thread.

This *IS* a game with persistent stats, and there is a lot of RPing involved. For those of us that do, please respect that and don't give us the verbal finger ("stfu") or chastise us for RPing (it's a f***ing game moron").

Woops, some people posted since I started writing.

Tosh, I agree, but multilog (which I started using today) is great. The typical person will whine in global, which is easy to ignore and hide in multilog.

Hmm, glad you found a way to ignore global chat, now don't complain about it.
Global Chat is present in most MMORPGs, ill write more later, i'm slightly busy right now.

I disagree with poster. You imply that killing is a necessity and you give examples, both from the real world and from sci-fi universes. However, there's a difference. In those universes, since not everybody is a soldier, you're only fighting soldiers. Here, though, everybody has to be a soldier. Every one of us. Even trading and capping are only put into the game because of their relevance to killing. So therefore you are implying that we should treat everybody as a soldier, even though that may not be their intent? I think not...

Rogue, I agree not everyone wants to be a soldier, and the best way to eliminate the one sided fights is for some kind of punishments.

I have my example of docking privlages or, stolen tags on cargo in the suggestions thread, but what about a weapon arming control, you have to arm your weapons to fight, have some punishment for people who attack un-armed ships.
So if you just want to trade, you can either not equip weapons, or equip them but keep them un-armed, and use them if you're attacked.

So much the same way i want a target lock warning, maybe we could have something that tells us if the other player is armed or not

One more point before I get out of this thread. I know that most of you will reply to my previous post with something like "If you don't want to fight, stay in sector 4". Well, we need to start getting into the habit of good behavior. If and when this game becomes a real RPG, we're not goign to be allowed to go around killing everyone, right? Well, if we've been killing everyone in sight for a year or so, we're not going to stop all of a sudden. You're gonna keep doing what you do- killing. And that's not going to yield a very friendly RPG, is it...

I agree somewhat, Rogue, although I think you're getting a little ahead of me. I was dealing with the game as it is now, not what it will become. Right now, everyone is a soldier, whether they like it or not. later on down the road, it will change, but right now, everyone's a target.

I think that to change the "everyone is a soldier" mentality in the long run we'd have to do something about it now, rather than around the time when it is necessary.

Aye genka.

"All they (we?) want to do is have fun in the game. Blowing things up is about as much as you can do."

What about other people's fun? Or are you more important than everyone else? Why do you consider blowing up newbs fun? It looks really boring to me.

Don't think that "we" as a community have to change something

The first change starts within yourselve. If you dont take this first step, then no evolution will folow. Not to mention that you can roleplay "like you love to say" a good person. And this good person will have the general acceptance and thanks of the community present in stead of the fear and contempt that conceives due to acting like a jackass.

Besides if everybody in this game is going to get used to random killing being acceptable, like it is now, then once the game goes public as a final product, all these oldtimers will complain over and over again. And in the end the devs will have to go into some of these wishes, since the customer is king. So try to get people to stay friendly to one another. It wa spossible in the past, so it should be possible in the future without these external regulations. It only needs some goodwill from everybody in stead of some stuborn people that put their own wishes before the well being of the community.

In reallity I disagree 100% with your complete post, some points are put forward above. But rocket ramming IS the weapon of the Noob, since it makes you score easy kills by damaging yourselve, compare it with the suicidebombers with as major difference that in here the suicider doesnt die. I cant imagine anybody to hurt himself just to be able to get a hit on anybody else. If you will hurt yourselve, then due to self conservation, you will withhold from shooting/taking action. But in here hurting yourselve during an attack is encouraged since it is the fastest and most efficient way to kill.

I wont say that it is only done by a noob, since in reality it arent noobs that want to get the fast kills, but the jackasses, pkers, griefers that want to kill as many as possible in stead of having some commmon decency and let both party have some fun. Newbies only see them getting pinned down by some of the prior mentioned people and will start to show the same behaviour what if it will not be seen as a problem will just become a growing problem, just liek a vicious circle. Decrease the efficiency of weapons and this could be solution. Make it seem as one ship is durable, in stead of 2 secs and 15 mins of trading is gone, maybe even 1 hour. Ships get blown up far to fast in accordance to what their basecost is.