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I have some questions about piracy...
In what ways is being a pirate "risky"?
I'm trying to understand the downside to piracy, and other than the general hatred from the non-pirate community, I can't come up wiith any.
I've already considered the pirate-vs-pirate aspect, and don't believe that's actually a real "risk." 1v1 pewing isn't really a risk.
It seems the only people taking risks in the game are miners, traders, and noobs. Where risk=loss of the only real commodity, time applied to function.
(Purposefully inciting debate here. Yes, this is a serious question, because I have more...)
I'm trying to understand the downside to piracy, and other than the general hatred from the non-pirate community, I can't come up wiith any.
I've already considered the pirate-vs-pirate aspect, and don't believe that's actually a real "risk." 1v1 pewing isn't really a risk.
It seems the only people taking risks in the game are miners, traders, and noobs. Where risk=loss of the only real commodity, time applied to function.
(Purposefully inciting debate here. Yes, this is a serious question, because I have more...)
Opportunity cost, mostly.
If your character becomes a pirate, s/he will eventually gain a reputation as a pirate. You might be able to trade with other pirates in some sort of coalition, but good luck going mainstream (although stranger things have happened, I suppose).
If your character becomes a pirate, s/he will eventually gain a reputation as a pirate. You might be able to trade with other pirates in some sort of coalition, but good luck going mainstream (although stranger things have happened, I suppose).
Opportunity cost, mostly.
What do you mean? The wealthiest players in the game are the pirates. They often have multiple capships, great amounts of credits, etc. They seem to have the greatest flexibility and can flex between outright piracy, military actions, trading, and mining without repercussion. Vets acting as pirates also know how to game the faction system, and have a significant amount of knowledge about how to most impact inexperienced players. (Again, purposefully inflammatory statement.)
Can you describe "opportunity cost" in more detail?
I'm trying to understand the real downside to becoming a pirate. Reputation loss doesn't seem like a great risk, given the empowered status of several of the most notorious pirates in-game.
What do you mean? The wealthiest players in the game are the pirates. They often have multiple capships, great amounts of credits, etc. They seem to have the greatest flexibility and can flex between outright piracy, military actions, trading, and mining without repercussion. Vets acting as pirates also know how to game the faction system, and have a significant amount of knowledge about how to most impact inexperienced players. (Again, purposefully inflammatory statement.)
Can you describe "opportunity cost" in more detail?
I'm trying to understand the real downside to becoming a pirate. Reputation loss doesn't seem like a great risk, given the empowered status of several of the most notorious pirates in-game.
I don't think your statement is inflammatory.
Quite simply, opportunity cost is the value of the alternative not chosen (in this case, not pirating). It's nonzero, and might be greater than the value of pirating. I'm not sure.
If you think pirates rule everything, then the opportunity cost would be very low indeed. They clearly don't, because trade exists, and I doubt the wealthiest players in the game are pirates.
We should also clarify that the argument is about piracy, which is separate from military actions, trading, and mining. A player may engage in all four or only the latter three.
Quite simply, opportunity cost is the value of the alternative not chosen (in this case, not pirating). It's nonzero, and might be greater than the value of pirating. I'm not sure.
If you think pirates rule everything, then the opportunity cost would be very low indeed. They clearly don't, because trade exists, and I doubt the wealthiest players in the game are pirates.
We should also clarify that the argument is about piracy, which is separate from military actions, trading, and mining. A player may engage in all four or only the latter three.
In what ways is being a pirate "risky"?
It's easy to be a pirate. It's difficult to be a profitable pirate. Every fight that you lose in a top tier ship is 70k-100k credits. If you are starting with a large fortune from being a trader, it's easy to become a pirate it is my opinion that to really roleplay a pirate properly one should rely on piracy as a source of income and if you're doing that...it's a lot harder.
Others have mentioned the reputation cost. You have to kill people to be a pirate. You have to start fights. If you don't, people don't have incentive to pay you. If you want to buy something from other players, they are going to remember who you are and you are going to either pay for that cost in credits or in less people being willing to do business with you.
There is also faction cost. Pirates may choose to hunt in nation space. Doing so often negatively impacts a pirate's faction standing.
I posted a newbie tutorial for how to be a pirate on the FGT site a while back. Some of it may be out of date (plugins) but being a good pirate requires a lot more than just shooting people.
http://familygalactictravel.com/node/35
It's easy to be a pirate. It's difficult to be a profitable pirate. Every fight that you lose in a top tier ship is 70k-100k credits. If you are starting with a large fortune from being a trader, it's easy to become a pirate it is my opinion that to really roleplay a pirate properly one should rely on piracy as a source of income and if you're doing that...it's a lot harder.
Others have mentioned the reputation cost. You have to kill people to be a pirate. You have to start fights. If you don't, people don't have incentive to pay you. If you want to buy something from other players, they are going to remember who you are and you are going to either pay for that cost in credits or in less people being willing to do business with you.
There is also faction cost. Pirates may choose to hunt in nation space. Doing so often negatively impacts a pirate's faction standing.
I posted a newbie tutorial for how to be a pirate on the FGT site a while back. Some of it may be out of date (plugins) but being a good pirate requires a lot more than just shooting people.
http://familygalactictravel.com/node/35
You risk self-responsibility as an individual, and a violent response to your recently discovered freedom.
I'm starting to get the picture that there really isn't a lot of inherent risk to piracy.
There is loss of personal reputation (seen as a jerk) and loss of in-game capital (ships go boom.)
With the opposition being: miners get pirated, they lose potentially hours of work (actual real-world time lost) same with manufacturers, and traders.
Maybe pirates have to do some legit work to beef the bank account back up after a bad run of luck?
Am I missing something?
There is loss of personal reputation (seen as a jerk) and loss of in-game capital (ships go boom.)
With the opposition being: miners get pirated, they lose potentially hours of work (actual real-world time lost) same with manufacturers, and traders.
Maybe pirates have to do some legit work to beef the bank account back up after a bad run of luck?
Am I missing something?
Am I missing something?
Resolve, and the will to see your dreams come into fruition, perhaps understanding of others.
I can think of no larger risk than standing for what you believe in, and putting your life on the line to see it happen.
Resolve, and the will to see your dreams come into fruition, perhaps understanding of others.
I can think of no larger risk than standing for what you believe in, and putting your life on the line to see it happen.
Am I missing something?
In a completely hypothetical situation: someone needs Reinforced Bulkhead right away and is willing to pay 10 million credits per unit for up to 6 units. Yesterday, a different pilot was selling a number of Reinforced Bulkhead at 7 million credits per unit but refused to sell to you due to your reputation as a pirate. You've lost 18 million credits.
How likely do you think that scenario is, and how much do you think you can earn by being a pirate? Therein lies your answer.
In a completely hypothetical situation: someone needs Reinforced Bulkhead right away and is willing to pay 10 million credits per unit for up to 6 units. Yesterday, a different pilot was selling a number of Reinforced Bulkhead at 7 million credits per unit but refused to sell to you due to your reputation as a pirate. You've lost 18 million credits.
How likely do you think that scenario is, and how much do you think you can earn by being a pirate? Therein lies your answer.
Phaserlight,
In your hypothetical scenario, I am a pirate. I would either: 1) kill them and take what I want. Or; 2) threaten to, or outright kill someone else, take their money (or goods,) and pay the greater cost.
There is still no real risk to me. Greater cost has no real bearing on risk when credits do not equal anything of substance to me... Like (using my previous example) actual time.
In your hypothetical scenario, I am a pirate. I would either: 1) kill them and take what I want. Or; 2) threaten to, or outright kill someone else, take their money (or goods,) and pay the greater cost.
There is still no real risk to me. Greater cost has no real bearing on risk when credits do not equal anything of substance to me... Like (using my previous example) actual time.
kill them and take what I want
It's not that simple. Experienced traders tend to guard their location carefully, especially when carrying valuable cargo.
...but if you think there's no real risk, give it a try and see how it goes.
It's not that simple. Experienced traders tend to guard their location carefully, especially when carrying valuable cargo.
...but if you think there's no real risk, give it a try and see how it goes.
Oh, I'm not opposed to piracy! In fact, I think it's an excellent addition to the game. However, if it's now, or will be, an intended function of the system, I'd like to see more content developed that focuses on the function.
Since piracy isn't my cup-of-tea, I wanted to understand it better before making suggestions that may go counter to the game direction. Currently my perspective is very much Trade/Manu/Miner based. Any suggestions I make will, obviously, be slanted in that direction.
Now, understanding that there is little risk to piracy, other than potential reputation loss, I know better what might be a valid suggestion vs. garbage.
I'm not arguing that piracy should be disallowed, nor am I implying that it doesn't require skill. By no means am I belittling those that have chosen piracy as their path.
I do believe that being a successful pirate requires a deep understanding of the faction alignment system and loopholes in that system, spotter bots to monitor trade routes, alt guild spies, alt abuse, and more than a little rule bending... But isn't that what piracy is all about?
Maybe if there were more legit piracy content; such as privateering (state/faction sponsored piracy,) special marauder ships, weapons, or dedicated stations, etc. I might take a try. Until then, I don't think I will.
I'm just trying to understand a component of the game better.
Since piracy isn't my cup-of-tea, I wanted to understand it better before making suggestions that may go counter to the game direction. Currently my perspective is very much Trade/Manu/Miner based. Any suggestions I make will, obviously, be slanted in that direction.
Now, understanding that there is little risk to piracy, other than potential reputation loss, I know better what might be a valid suggestion vs. garbage.
I'm not arguing that piracy should be disallowed, nor am I implying that it doesn't require skill. By no means am I belittling those that have chosen piracy as their path.
I do believe that being a successful pirate requires a deep understanding of the faction alignment system and loopholes in that system, spotter bots to monitor trade routes, alt guild spies, alt abuse, and more than a little rule bending... But isn't that what piracy is all about?
Maybe if there were more legit piracy content; such as privateering (state/faction sponsored piracy,) special marauder ships, weapons, or dedicated stations, etc. I might take a try. Until then, I don't think I will.
I'm just trying to understand a component of the game better.
I do believe that being a successful pirate requires a deep understanding of the faction alignment system and loopholes in that system, spotter bots to monitor trade routes, alt guild spies, alt abuse, and more than a little rule bending... But isn't that what piracy is all about?
That's not entirely true.
I have never maintained alt spies or abused alts except to bypass the faction limitations around ship availability but that is a stated benefit of multiple character slots so to call that an abuse would involve revisiting how character slots are used...which I don't think is the point you are making so I won't digress on that.
Spotter bots can be helpful but they are generally only useful to know when somebody is in an area. When the great spotter bot visibility was limited by the devs many years ago it killed the viability of everything except a real-player spotting network and in-station spotter bots. In station has limited usability and real-player networks require a number of actual people running your spotting plugin to be successful. That being said, I have made use of the spotting network and occasionally had an in-station bot but most of my success as a pirate was built on reputation and being known as a trustworthy pirate. I had traders scheduling payments with me even though I charged more than my guild-mates because they knew that they could trust that I would record their payments promptly and because I would take action if they were harassed after paying me.
Like being a successful merchant, being a successful pirate requires a large commitment to establishing a reputation and not violating the trust of the people that pay for you services.
That's not entirely true.
I have never maintained alt spies or abused alts except to bypass the faction limitations around ship availability but that is a stated benefit of multiple character slots so to call that an abuse would involve revisiting how character slots are used...which I don't think is the point you are making so I won't digress on that.
Spotter bots can be helpful but they are generally only useful to know when somebody is in an area. When the great spotter bot visibility was limited by the devs many years ago it killed the viability of everything except a real-player spotting network and in-station spotter bots. In station has limited usability and real-player networks require a number of actual people running your spotting plugin to be successful. That being said, I have made use of the spotting network and occasionally had an in-station bot but most of my success as a pirate was built on reputation and being known as a trustworthy pirate. I had traders scheduling payments with me even though I charged more than my guild-mates because they knew that they could trust that I would record their payments promptly and because I would take action if they were harassed after paying me.
Like being a successful merchant, being a successful pirate requires a large commitment to establishing a reputation and not violating the trust of the people that pay for you services.
I didn't think piracy would be my cup of tea, but I blew up this guy called Savet Hegar one time and he convinced me otherwise.
The rest is history...
(He may have blown me up first)
The rest is history...
(He may have blown me up first)
>Maybe if there were more legit piracy content; such as privateering (state/faction sponsored piracy,) special marauder ships, weapons, or dedicated stations, etc. I might take a try. Until then, I don't think I will.
Pirates have a dedicated chasing ship (the greyhound), and a dedicated weapon (the corvus ultra positron blaster). Corvus is the de-facto faction dedicated to piracy, which is why you cannot get KoS with them.
If you want faction sponsored piracy, you can become a bounty hunter for your faction, and receive rewards for killing aggressors who attack players of your faction.
Pirates have a dedicated chasing ship (the greyhound), and a dedicated weapon (the corvus ultra positron blaster). Corvus is the de-facto faction dedicated to piracy, which is why you cannot get KoS with them.
If you want faction sponsored piracy, you can become a bounty hunter for your faction, and receive rewards for killing aggressors who attack players of your faction.
I think , first here, there is a confusion between pirates and murderers:
With a pirate most of the time you can arrive to a mutual deal to cut your losses and negotiate a safe passage price or buy back your cargo, while a murderer will just kill you and wont even steal your cargo.
The second problem is that the game lacks anti pirates players cos there are mostly no incentive for this job.
You have the same risk as a pirate but no chance to get a financial compensation.
1) Bounties are hard to collect.
2) bounties are triggered only when a pirate kills in a monitored space
3) no trader wants to pay independent pilots for escorts.
So, as a anti pirate you need to trade to make credits which divert you from your protection mission.
The third problem is that
Most Trade guilds fail to organize their members to cooperate to offer protection to their other members who trade or mine.
In one word this is not that pirates are overpowered, it is more that traders/miner are too individualist to organize themselves under "l'Union fait la force"
C'NB
With a pirate most of the time you can arrive to a mutual deal to cut your losses and negotiate a safe passage price or buy back your cargo, while a murderer will just kill you and wont even steal your cargo.
The second problem is that the game lacks anti pirates players cos there are mostly no incentive for this job.
You have the same risk as a pirate but no chance to get a financial compensation.
1) Bounties are hard to collect.
2) bounties are triggered only when a pirate kills in a monitored space
3) no trader wants to pay independent pilots for escorts.
So, as a anti pirate you need to trade to make credits which divert you from your protection mission.
The third problem is that
Most Trade guilds fail to organize their members to cooperate to offer protection to their other members who trade or mine.
In one word this is not that pirates are overpowered, it is more that traders/miner are too individualist to organize themselves under "l'Union fait la force"
C'NB