Forums » General
It depends on the way you look at it. I've been hearing from people, for years, that they wished there were some way they could additionally make financial contributions to the game through additional skins and the like. I'm not saying that's true of everyone, but it's true of some people.
On top of that, you are not likely to see additional content quite like these Trident skins.. ever again. They're simply too "costly" in terms of download space. They actually aren't just "Liveries", they're complete packs of all texture types (and at high resolution), which is why they even have unique lighting.
Down the road, I expect to add a large number of more basic "liveries" that are available at much lower price points, for all types of ships. They'll use simpler overlay techniques and mix in with existing textures to create interesting combinations. But they will especially not be like the Trident "Tech" skins.
So, to put it another way, the cost of these particular skins will likely maintain a degree of exclusivity to those items. I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't have the resources to build unique $2,500 ships that no one else can ever have, and I think that's a bit ridiculous. But I think a $45 skin with unique diffuse, normal, specular, and illumination maps, along with some custom shader tweaking.. that's probably fine.
The next logical criticism is.. why now? Why not launch higher-cost items with a whole slew of lower-cost skins, at the same time? Well, I simply don't have them available. I had these, so I spread them out a bit. I had promised these particular Trident skins a really long time ago, so I felt I had to ship them, even though they're not space-efficient and are no longer the kind of "livery" implementation we're likely to employ again. So why not have some rarity to them?
To the user who applies them, they have a cachet of someone who went an extra mile to support VO. I don't think that's so terrible. As time goes on, someday I might bolt a livery onto a 2-year Sub and offer a special combo-price or some such, but again, always treating them as distinct items of value.
I really don't care where some other game prices their ship-skins. Good for them. We'll have a spread of availability and commonality. The "Firewasp" is generally valued at $5, and that'll probably be a common price point for future liveries, somewhere in $3-$5 range.
But if you think I'll make a "load more cash" from that, that would also be naive, for the moment anyway. (And, no, the vast majority of people who currently play the game are not premium subscribers, and that also includes some old vets; but hey, we're all still trying to figure out this mixed-bag business model).
Whatever you read into the pricing, understand that it isn't greed. I have no expectation of selling a zillion Trident liveries (there aren't even a zillion Tridents). But hey, if it were me.. if the skin is rare enough to still be uncommon, and it helps fund my favorite game (and maybe I had a little extra money to spend sometime), and it dresses up an item I spent months acquiring.. I'd probably buy it? So, I think that's just fine.
On top of that, you are not likely to see additional content quite like these Trident skins.. ever again. They're simply too "costly" in terms of download space. They actually aren't just "Liveries", they're complete packs of all texture types (and at high resolution), which is why they even have unique lighting.
Down the road, I expect to add a large number of more basic "liveries" that are available at much lower price points, for all types of ships. They'll use simpler overlay techniques and mix in with existing textures to create interesting combinations. But they will especially not be like the Trident "Tech" skins.
So, to put it another way, the cost of these particular skins will likely maintain a degree of exclusivity to those items. I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't have the resources to build unique $2,500 ships that no one else can ever have, and I think that's a bit ridiculous. But I think a $45 skin with unique diffuse, normal, specular, and illumination maps, along with some custom shader tweaking.. that's probably fine.
The next logical criticism is.. why now? Why not launch higher-cost items with a whole slew of lower-cost skins, at the same time? Well, I simply don't have them available. I had these, so I spread them out a bit. I had promised these particular Trident skins a really long time ago, so I felt I had to ship them, even though they're not space-efficient and are no longer the kind of "livery" implementation we're likely to employ again. So why not have some rarity to them?
To the user who applies them, they have a cachet of someone who went an extra mile to support VO. I don't think that's so terrible. As time goes on, someday I might bolt a livery onto a 2-year Sub and offer a special combo-price or some such, but again, always treating them as distinct items of value.
I really don't care where some other game prices their ship-skins. Good for them. We'll have a spread of availability and commonality. The "Firewasp" is generally valued at $5, and that'll probably be a common price point for future liveries, somewhere in $3-$5 range.
But if you think I'll make a "load more cash" from that, that would also be naive, for the moment anyway. (And, no, the vast majority of people who currently play the game are not premium subscribers, and that also includes some old vets; but hey, we're all still trying to figure out this mixed-bag business model).
Whatever you read into the pricing, understand that it isn't greed. I have no expectation of selling a zillion Trident liveries (there aren't even a zillion Tridents). But hey, if it were me.. if the skin is rare enough to still be uncommon, and it helps fund my favorite game (and maybe I had a little extra money to spend sometime), and it dresses up an item I spent months acquiring.. I'd probably buy it? So, I think that's just fine.
Well a "load more cash" than the current liveries, not "a load more cash" as in millions of dollars. But I do hear what you are saying, and if it was your intention for only people who care about the game to buy to add more funds by backing the game then it's a fine situation, that is exactly what you have.
Sorry if it sounded like I was calling you greedy, that was not my intention and I never actually said anything like that, but I guess you have "angry yoda" in your mind right now. I was simply pointing out that a lot of people, myself included, will probably just pass over this as some kind of experiment in skin sales - which is what I had it down to - not as greed. Being greedy isn't always a bad thing either btw.
And yeah, I get that a lot of people play "sub-free" right now, thanks for all the easy kills!
Sorry if it sounded like I was calling you greedy, that was not my intention and I never actually said anything like that, but I guess you have "angry yoda" in your mind right now. I was simply pointing out that a lot of people, myself included, will probably just pass over this as some kind of experiment in skin sales - which is what I had it down to - not as greed. Being greedy isn't always a bad thing either btw.
And yeah, I get that a lot of people play "sub-free" right now, thanks for all the easy kills!
No, I didn't mean to imply that you thought I was greedy, I was just calling that out in general, as it's kind of a common criticism of this kind of pricing, and I have to write these responses not just for now, but for posterity and review later by others.
(Plus, Inevitable's reaction could have been interpreted that way, although I don't think that was his accusation either).
Anyway, the "loads of cash" (no matter what pricing, or quantity of liveries) are likely to be a couple grand (per year), at best, right now. So not exactly life-changing sums. The only way to drive an item-sale economy is with a much larger engaged player base than we have at present.
(Plus, Inevitable's reaction could have been interpreted that way, although I don't think that was his accusation either).
Anyway, the "loads of cash" (no matter what pricing, or quantity of liveries) are likely to be a couple grand (per year), at best, right now. So not exactly life-changing sums. The only way to drive an item-sale economy is with a much larger engaged player base than we have at present.
All prices for trident skins were spot on in my opinion. The vulture could be a bit cheaper, but I wouldn't say the price is out of line. Some people around here don't seem to know how to put VO in context with other games.
The "Camo" livery is actually going to start being used in-game to denote NPC "military" craft belonging to particular factions. So you can visually tell the difference between a "military" convoy and a civilian.
Because it's going to have a real in-game role, I thought it should be a little more exclusive, which is why the Vulture one is priced that high. Future Vulture liveries will be less.
Because it's going to have a real in-game role, I thought it should be a little more exclusive, which is why the Vulture one is priced that high. Future Vulture liveries will be less.
I actually can put VO in context with other games, but I can also see that a few neon light effects for £0.99 or a shiny vulture skin might actually get people who would not normally part with any cash to slap down some money. Like Inc has stated, a lot of the current players do not pay a dime. I brought up 1 other game as an example of a game that quite succesfully sells skins; it was a point about the market - not about game comparison. (Heck, I even said in the post that I hated linking to other games).
Inc has said this is more for long term backers who may pay, and this is fine. I still think adding some cheaper liveries/skins/effects could raise a little extra cash, but if he says it is not worth the extra effort then this is also fine. It is his game after all, and there really was no need for your sarcastic comment.
Anyway, voted on the indie thing, not holding out much hope for VO this year though, and not going to try cheat it again...lol It really should be about real voters, not about "which community can use Tor faster" ;-)
Inc has said this is more for long term backers who may pay, and this is fine. I still think adding some cheaper liveries/skins/effects could raise a little extra cash, but if he says it is not worth the extra effort then this is also fine. It is his game after all, and there really was no need for your sarcastic comment.
Anyway, voted on the indie thing, not holding out much hope for VO this year though, and not going to try cheat it again...lol It really should be about real voters, not about "which community can use Tor faster" ;-)
That's actually fantastic dude! Adding those minor details to add to the lore is really meaningful in the long run. Just by calling this livery the military livery you've added more RP content. That's just great.
When VO is put into proper context, the prices for the liveries make good sense. I would even argue he could have charged more for the trident liveries. How many people have tridents in the game? Or ever will for that matter? The exact same people are gonna buy the exact same trident liveries now as they would have had he charged less or more for them. It was really about how much money he wanted to make off of it, and I think he was quite fair about it. And generally trident pilots are super committed to VO and are subscribers that could probably afford to drop extra cash on VO.
As far as the vulture livery goes, Inc's explanation was more than enough for me to feel good about spending the $10. Official military personnel? Hell yea! Tell me you're not excited about flying an official military ship?
And dude, you telling anyone that their comments aren't needed is a joke.
As far as the vulture livery goes, Inc's explanation was more than enough for me to feel good about spending the $10. Official military personnel? Hell yea! Tell me you're not excited about flying an official military ship?
And dude, you telling anyone that their comments aren't needed is a joke.
It is like you do not even read posts mate, I never mentioned the Trident skin. Not going to get into a fight in a news thread with you, no matter how much you want me to Ni, but two lefts do not make a right unless you are Irish.
I understand Incs explanation, it is like you are fighting a battle that is not there. I took it as an experiment with skin sales (something which has been asked for a lot) and gave my opinion on pricing, as usual I was wrong in my assumptions and was fine with Inc's reasoning.
I understand Incs explanation, it is like you are fighting a battle that is not there. I took it as an experiment with skin sales (something which has been asked for a lot) and gave my opinion on pricing, as usual I was wrong in my assumptions and was fine with Inc's reasoning.
No fighting here. I'm simply agreeing with the current prices and making a case for my opinions. If we make one more left, then will we have made the right turn?
Has there ever been any thoughts of bounties on custom liveries? Not sure exactly how this would work, but I'm sure there would be quite a few pilots that would pony up some dough for a custom ship livery.
Has there ever been any thoughts of bounties on custom liveries? Not sure exactly how this would work, but I'm sure there would be quite a few pilots that would pony up some dough for a custom ship livery.
You will be going the right way, but will have gone the wrong way about it. Or something like that...lol
There was some talk of custom decals for cash bounties at some point, which may seem even more pointless to some than skins, but I would pay good money to put a tiny skull and crossbones on my Warthogs winglets. It was brought up by a few, Azumi, Lecter to name a few but never really went anywhere (basically suggest a decal, if people like it they bid for it, if it gets enough support and passes review, added to the game for sale - two way cash cow, with built in moderation). As far as download size goes too, I think custom decals would still be a good option. Obviously ship textures would have to be modified to support some kind of overlay, and add decal positions in sane places, but adding more options after the hard work is done should be quite easy, especially if making a new livery involves making (and installing) a whole new texture set.
[edit]
Or a tiny decal that reads "If you can read this, you just got shot!"
There was some talk of custom decals for cash bounties at some point, which may seem even more pointless to some than skins, but I would pay good money to put a tiny skull and crossbones on my Warthogs winglets. It was brought up by a few, Azumi, Lecter to name a few but never really went anywhere (basically suggest a decal, if people like it they bid for it, if it gets enough support and passes review, added to the game for sale - two way cash cow, with built in moderation). As far as download size goes too, I think custom decals would still be a good option. Obviously ship textures would have to be modified to support some kind of overlay, and add decal positions in sane places, but adding more options after the hard work is done should be quite easy, especially if making a new livery involves making (and installing) a whole new texture set.
[edit]
Or a tiny decal that reads "If you can read this, you just got shot!"
Instead of appreciating inc about those ship livery update yoda crying here for its price lol
All those other games which yer talkin about is not available to android
Anyways thanks inc alot for liveries update , waiting for
capella testing :)
All those other games which yer talkin about is not available to android
Anyways thanks inc alot for liveries update , waiting for
capella testing :)
I will buy a livery soon love them all maybe even buy them all idk but great job on them
"Instead of appreciating inc about those ship livery update yoda crying here for its price lol"
I suggest you either re-read yoda's posts, or spend some time with reading comprehension practice.
I suggest you either re-read yoda's posts, or spend some time with reading comprehension practice.
I agree with Darth Nihilus; five years ago I might have gasped at a $40+ Trident skin, however in this day and age, especially in the context of games like Battlefront II and projects like Star Citizen, it's downright modest (I'm not suggesting Guild Software emulate either of these, by the way). Even Eve had a $60 monocle and $15 pants in 2011.
It's a vanity item showing one supports the game without granting in-game advantages (obviously a subscription also supports the game which is required to build a Trident in the first place).
My only concern would be how will inexpensive liveries in the future affect the value of these items? Will these remain unique or are they going to wash a little bit?
Beyond this, I also want to compliment Vendetta's game design; sometime within the last decade developers seem to have caught on to the fact that variable rewards are highly compelling to the human psyche on a subliminal level. This is especially true in the mobile space; even games that are otherwise solidly designed like Elder Scrolls Legends make use of this as an impetus to keep on playing. Vendetta goes against this trend, providing a soulful experience: you have to work for things you want, whether it's to become a better fighter pilot or to build a Trident. There are no sudden accidental windfalls.
It's a vanity item showing one supports the game without granting in-game advantages (obviously a subscription also supports the game which is required to build a Trident in the first place).
My only concern would be how will inexpensive liveries in the future affect the value of these items? Will these remain unique or are they going to wash a little bit?
Beyond this, I also want to compliment Vendetta's game design; sometime within the last decade developers seem to have caught on to the fact that variable rewards are highly compelling to the human psyche on a subliminal level. This is especially true in the mobile space; even games that are otherwise solidly designed like Elder Scrolls Legends make use of this as an impetus to keep on playing. Vendetta goes against this trend, providing a soulful experience: you have to work for things you want, whether it's to become a better fighter pilot or to build a Trident. There are no sudden accidental windfalls.
Off topic, I know, but...
Inc said "The "Camo" livery is actually going to start being used in-game to denote NPC "military" craft belonging to particular factions. So you can visually tell the difference between a "military" convoy and a civilian. "
Will these Military ships have a higher degree of danger, like the F-12 NPCs?
Inc said "The "Camo" livery is actually going to start being used in-game to denote NPC "military" craft belonging to particular factions. So you can visually tell the difference between a "military" convoy and a civilian. "
Will these Military ships have a higher degree of danger, like the F-12 NPCs?
Not off-topic at all Faille and a good question! I mean, there are already NPC's in the game that "could" be classed as military (BP, BS, CtC at a push), but it did sound more like a new possible group of NPC's too. After my last few rants I am sure Inc knows that wider spread use of "smarter" NPC's is actually something we want too, and apart from being a bit more difficult to kill (a good thing) the aggro bots don't seem too OP or anything so having them deployed as military ships in BS would be a better test imho. Skinned as such or not.
[edit]
My only concern would be how will inexpensive liveries in the future affect the value of these items? Will these remain unique or are they going to wash a little bit?
Another good point, I guess one way to balance that out would be to make some skins of a limited amount too. Make the more exclusive, higher priced skins have a "stock" level, so when they are gone they are actually gone. I guess some time-based skins, like the anni skin (although it was added as a purchasable ship rather than a livery) could be in order too. Ah, I guess none of that matters right now, but when there are more cheaper skins, it should be something to revisit.
I get that VO's numbers are not enough alone to justify the cost in dev time, but I do reckon some tron style skins, squiggly blue line skins and just over-all simpler skins are in order too. I dunno, I guess I will wait and see, just like everyone else. Skins and cosmetic extras do actually have a psychological component to owning too; some people just gotta have them all! People feel cheap if they are skinless when flying with a group of skinned up players, it is like not having the best training shoes at school, or not having the latest hair style. People are funny. :)
[edit]
My only concern would be how will inexpensive liveries in the future affect the value of these items? Will these remain unique or are they going to wash a little bit?
Another good point, I guess one way to balance that out would be to make some skins of a limited amount too. Make the more exclusive, higher priced skins have a "stock" level, so when they are gone they are actually gone. I guess some time-based skins, like the anni skin (although it was added as a purchasable ship rather than a livery) could be in order too. Ah, I guess none of that matters right now, but when there are more cheaper skins, it should be something to revisit.
I get that VO's numbers are not enough alone to justify the cost in dev time, but I do reckon some tron style skins, squiggly blue line skins and just over-all simpler skins are in order too. I dunno, I guess I will wait and see, just like everyone else. Skins and cosmetic extras do actually have a psychological component to owning too; some people just gotta have them all! People feel cheap if they are skinless when flying with a group of skinned up players, it is like not having the best training shoes at school, or not having the latest hair style. People are funny. :)
Will these Military ships have a higher degree of danger, like the F-12 NPCs?
So, that aspect of development is kind of orthogonal (unrelated) to the livery, but we are also working on making bots more dangerous. Or just fixing some of the stupid problems they've had since various changes apparently had un-intended, detrimental side effects over the years.
In general, Military convoys should be higher-value targets, carrying more interesting or specialty goods, with substantially scarier defenses. For me, a lot of this conceptual design goes back to age-of-sail stuff, events like the Spanish treasure fleet.
At any rate, I don't want to promise too many specifics right now, we're still trying to debug a lot of strange code and figure out what's going on.
So, that aspect of development is kind of orthogonal (unrelated) to the livery, but we are also working on making bots more dangerous. Or just fixing some of the stupid problems they've had since various changes apparently had un-intended, detrimental side effects over the years.
In general, Military convoys should be higher-value targets, carrying more interesting or specialty goods, with substantially scarier defenses. For me, a lot of this conceptual design goes back to age-of-sail stuff, events like the Spanish treasure fleet.
At any rate, I don't want to promise too many specifics right now, we're still trying to debug a lot of strange code and figure out what's going on.
The trident skin seems overpriced.
Talking about the liveries, I haven't seen anything in my emailbox about the one for supporting Everspace's Kickstarter campaign. I contacted them through KS now that I renewed my subscription to V-O.
Though, I need to find time to play, even to just collect materials.
Though, I need to find time to play, even to just collect materials.