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Cross-posted from News:
We have a long-standing policy of not getting involved with player-versus-player or guild-related "thefts" or "espionage", and it appears a reminder is needed of this fact.
If you give another player a large sum of credits (or manufactured goods, or whatever) with an expectation of an exchange for some other good/service, and they instead "run off with your stuff", that is NOT cause for administrative action.
As long as the game mechanics are used as-intended, and there's no "exploit" or account-compromise, or other external-factor involved, and everything happens within the context of regular gameplay.. then we consider it to be a part of regular gameplay.
As far as we're concerned, this game is built as a framework, a model to which people may bring their own behaviours and ethics. The fundamental existence of piracy in our game, defended as a legitimate means of accruing wealth, gives a clue to the variable ways in which the game may be played. We, the developers, do not pass judgement on who should be a pirate, or who should be EMS or some sort of altruist, that is the player's choice to make.
Probably the most fundamental decision players have to make in VO is "who to trust". Is this person on radar going to attack me and take my stuff? Is this guild-member going to behave responsibly? Will this exchange of manufactured goods go as planned? These choices are your own, and are made at your own risk.
This doesn't mean we approve of people behaving badly or in an un-trustworthy manner, but it does mean we don't take administrative action to reverse the results of bad decision-making or trust issues between players.
We ARE open to Suggestions (posts on that specific forum) on ways of improving the game to mitigate issues with un-trustworthy people.
But, fundamentally, we do not get involved if you give someone your stuff (or access to your stuff), and they run away with it.
Guilds should consider carefully who they choose to trust. People have spent months rising in the ranks of guilds for no other purpose than emptying their bank, stealing their other content, or practicing espionage on behalf of a rival guild. Again, we don't pass judgement on this.
There have been "thefts" or trust-related issues resulting in the losses of Billions of credits over the last year, and we have not reversed or refunded any of them. These join many other incidents (large and small) over the past years, where we also refused to get involved.
Be Cautious! It is a large and scary galaxy, and not everyone has your best interests at heart. If you do choose to trust someone, do so knowing that that decision is yours alone, and you have to live with the results.
We have a long-standing policy of not getting involved with player-versus-player or guild-related "thefts" or "espionage", and it appears a reminder is needed of this fact.
If you give another player a large sum of credits (or manufactured goods, or whatever) with an expectation of an exchange for some other good/service, and they instead "run off with your stuff", that is NOT cause for administrative action.
As long as the game mechanics are used as-intended, and there's no "exploit" or account-compromise, or other external-factor involved, and everything happens within the context of regular gameplay.. then we consider it to be a part of regular gameplay.
As far as we're concerned, this game is built as a framework, a model to which people may bring their own behaviours and ethics. The fundamental existence of piracy in our game, defended as a legitimate means of accruing wealth, gives a clue to the variable ways in which the game may be played. We, the developers, do not pass judgement on who should be a pirate, or who should be EMS or some sort of altruist, that is the player's choice to make.
Probably the most fundamental decision players have to make in VO is "who to trust". Is this person on radar going to attack me and take my stuff? Is this guild-member going to behave responsibly? Will this exchange of manufactured goods go as planned? These choices are your own, and are made at your own risk.
This doesn't mean we approve of people behaving badly or in an un-trustworthy manner, but it does mean we don't take administrative action to reverse the results of bad decision-making or trust issues between players.
We ARE open to Suggestions (posts on that specific forum) on ways of improving the game to mitigate issues with un-trustworthy people.
But, fundamentally, we do not get involved if you give someone your stuff (or access to your stuff), and they run away with it.
Guilds should consider carefully who they choose to trust. People have spent months rising in the ranks of guilds for no other purpose than emptying their bank, stealing their other content, or practicing espionage on behalf of a rival guild. Again, we don't pass judgement on this.
There have been "thefts" or trust-related issues resulting in the losses of Billions of credits over the last year, and we have not reversed or refunded any of them. These join many other incidents (large and small) over the past years, where we also refused to get involved.
Be Cautious! It is a large and scary galaxy, and not everyone has your best interests at heart. If you do choose to trust someone, do so knowing that that decision is yours alone, and you have to live with the results.
My first week playing, June 2003, I was destroyed by Icarus while happily carting wares through... sector 6 I think it was? From that point on, the game went from being an immersive space simulation to being a metacosm; a canvas on which human ideals are messily splayed like so much paint. Conflict, strife, tides of power: these became narrative threads which continued to this day.
It's the reason guilds like [VPR] exist: because there is a need for them. Rather than an impassable magical barrier stating "thou shalt not" there are known and unknown forces whispering "probably shouldn't", or "maybe", and it's because of the players.
This is a reason why Vendetta is such an interesting game, to me.
It's the reason guilds like [VPR] exist: because there is a need for them. Rather than an impassable magical barrier stating "thou shalt not" there are known and unknown forces whispering "probably shouldn't", or "maybe", and it's because of the players.
This is a reason why Vendetta is such an interesting game, to me.
I hate to say it but in station transfer with a transfer window would eliminate this problem.
Who said it was a problem?
So, as I'm sure multiple people are wondering in the back of their heads, did something interesting happen recently that warranted the release of this news?
And when the theft occurred due to the broken guild mechanics?
Is exploiting the trust Guild Software has placed in the guides also something you wish to ignore?
While I don't expect the guides to spend an overly large amount of to handling their admin duties I do expect Guild Software to oversee such issues and correct any mistakes and related consequences that the guides make.
Obviously this is not the place to air such issues so I have left out the details but there are a few problems Incarnate. Players exploiting players in the normal course of game play is one thing. Players exploiting your appointed guardians and not doing anything about it is in very poor taste.
Losses due to normal game play are one matter but losses caused by the actions of your own people are very much a different matter and not a matter you should dismiss as not your problem...
Is exploiting the trust Guild Software has placed in the guides also something you wish to ignore?
While I don't expect the guides to spend an overly large amount of to handling their admin duties I do expect Guild Software to oversee such issues and correct any mistakes and related consequences that the guides make.
Obviously this is not the place to air such issues so I have left out the details but there are a few problems Incarnate. Players exploiting players in the normal course of game play is one thing. Players exploiting your appointed guardians and not doing anything about it is in very poor taste.
Losses due to normal game play are one matter but losses caused by the actions of your own people are very much a different matter and not a matter you should dismiss as not your problem...
Either support with specific allegations that to which you allude, PaK, or confine your discussions to support tickets. Or, you know, feel free to STFU entirely. This coy approach is obnoxious.
"Is exploiting the trust Guild Software has placed in the guides also something you wish to ignore?"
No idea what that's about. Please do take it up with Inc using the reporting system. Be sure not to violate the ROC, section 1.1, item 5, by posting further innuendo on the forums.
No idea what that's about. Please do take it up with Inc using the reporting system. Be sure not to violate the ROC, section 1.1, item 5, by posting further innuendo on the forums.
joyless: There have actually been a bunch of incidents (large and small) over the last 6 months that have raised this. People starting new guilds and someone running off with the bank, people paying in advance for manufacturing services and then losing out, that kind of thing. After a recent ticket, I decided it merited a policy clarification post, as people keep getting mad at me when I say "no, I will not give you back your stuff". But I'm not looking to start a rumor-mill here.
PaKettle: I have zero idea of what you're talking about. No one has accused any guide of.. anything at all, to my knowledge. My commentary was entirely specific to player-versus-player issues.
And like Lecter and Whistler say, either send a specific support ticket, or don't bring it up.
PaKettle: I have zero idea of what you're talking about. No one has accused any guide of.. anything at all, to my knowledge. My commentary was entirely specific to player-versus-player issues.
And like Lecter and Whistler say, either send a specific support ticket, or don't bring it up.
wow Lecter's is one step away to become a guide XD.
Yea, Lecter's a 1 step forward, 2 steps back kind of guy.
I think PaKettle is talking about the amazing theft of the [PA] guild bank. That was a nice haul for someone. That guild was dead anyway, I'm sure the credits are being put to good use.
It comes as no surprise that there are trust issues in a game with throwaway alts when you don't need to play a character with any conviction. I'm sure you'll be getting more complaints over the years.
It comes as no surprise that there are trust issues in a game with throwaway alts when you don't need to play a character with any conviction. I'm sure you'll be getting more complaints over the years.
I hate to say it but in station transfer with a transfer window would eliminate this problem.
This.
Inc's position would be justifiable for player trade if people were bypassing the game mechanics and taking that risk on themselves. To say "we don't get involved" when the fundemental trade mechanics in the game are so woefully lacking is, imo, a bad policy.
This.
Inc's position would be justifiable for player trade if people were bypassing the game mechanics and taking that risk on themselves. To say "we don't get involved" when the fundemental trade mechanics in the game are so woefully lacking is, imo, a bad policy.
PA bank got embezzled? Hell, they deserved it anyway.
A bunch of people obnoxiously thinking they're better than anyone else deserves a reality check once in a while.
A bunch of people obnoxiously thinking they're better than anyone else deserves a reality check once in a while.
A support ticket was filed - I can only assume you didn't see it or blew it off.
Issue:4152 I hate to waste your time like this but.. 2017-01-30 21:00:22
If you check around there maybe a few more from other more involved individuals.
I am only commenting here since Incarnate choose to bring the subject up. The issue isn't so much a guide screwed up per say but rather a player exploited a mechanic put into place as a substitute for Guild Software actually fixing the issue. I don't care if the credits are returned, Put an end to the exploit that was used one way or another. Either fix the game issues or change the policies the guides are using. This is a mechanic that has been bitched about for years with more then a few suggestions submitted. If you would rather play with the graphics then start making the guides verify the situation before they act.
It wasn't amazing - it was a cheap con played on Whistler....
Issue:4152 I hate to waste your time like this but.. 2017-01-30 21:00:22
If you check around there maybe a few more from other more involved individuals.
I am only commenting here since Incarnate choose to bring the subject up. The issue isn't so much a guide screwed up per say but rather a player exploited a mechanic put into place as a substitute for Guild Software actually fixing the issue. I don't care if the credits are returned, Put an end to the exploit that was used one way or another. Either fix the game issues or change the policies the guides are using. This is a mechanic that has been bitched about for years with more then a few suggestions submitted. If you would rather play with the graphics then start making the guides verify the situation before they act.
It wasn't amazing - it was a cheap con played on Whistler....
@incarnate
My commentary was entirely specific to player-versus-player issues.
PaKettle is talking about a player-versus-player issue facilitated ignorantly by a guide. Specifically: manipulating a guide into usurping an established guild leadership to steal a bank. I'll add my suggestion to the appropriate thread.
My commentary was entirely specific to player-versus-player issues.
PaKettle is talking about a player-versus-player issue facilitated ignorantly by a guide. Specifically: manipulating a guide into usurping an established guild leadership to steal a bank. I'll add my suggestion to the appropriate thread.
I hate to say it but in station transfer with a transfer window would eliminate this problem.
It would eliminate so many fun aspects of this game, like having to secure a place to exchange goods.
Perfectly safe transfers are B-O-R-I-N-G
It would eliminate so many fun aspects of this game, like having to secure a place to exchange goods.
Perfectly safe transfers are B-O-R-I-N-G
I'm not for or against in station transfer but I wouldn't make it at every station maybe just 1 like m7 or just the conq stations something along those lines.
Even worse!