xochj,

use a triflare setup on a maruader. Or if you have bad aim a trigemini.

See the enemies fall before you.

Besides, I can outrun pretty every ship in my med/fast maud.

Yes even the valk. Unless the guy is a really really really good chaser.

cheers

PS: xoch, you have to compare the ship with its lesser. If you do this then you will see that it is superior in every way. Its lesser is the atlas. As you can see it has almost got double tradecapacity for the same agility.

So when you are going to annex a tradeship, or anuy ship whatsoever then please compare it with its lesser.

valk - vult
marauder - atlas
prom - wraith

you will see that they are better "special" in every way

PPS: dont forget flying a heavy or a light tradeship is a complete other approach. Dont expect to flee in a centaur, when somebody is chasing you with gausses.

deleted

I actually see your comparasons, Rene, but it's still not that simple. Each special is the uncontested best (be it fair and balanced or not) at something, or with some stat. The maud isn't, at anything. Speed, agility, armor, cargo, weapons, etc.

Valk - Fighter.
As far as fighters go, it's got the most/best
Armor
Weapons
Agility (tie)
Cargo space

Deficincies? None.

Promy - bomber/carrier
As far as b/c's go, it's got the most/best
Armor
Weapons (hmm, might be 2nd best here)
Cargo

Deficincies: agility.

Maud.
Best in trader class? Nothing. Perhaps agility.
Deficiencies? Well, none, really, but it has no advantages, either.

But there are other factors here too. You can't rate agility, armor, weapons and cargo space as equal factors. Trading is easy in ANY ship. All you need is time. Armor and weapons are on their own pretty equal. Agility is a player-based factor, and it's really more of a modifier of weapons and armor than a seperate factor. A bad pilot in a valk or promie has a pretty god chance of beating a good player in a stock bus. Probably so for the maud as well, but with each more able ship up the line, the maud loses more and more value. The other two specials retain their value versus other ships better. And I mean ability, not just combat.

My point was never that it's a bad ship. Just that it ain't very special anymore. You maybe right that the specials are "upgrades" of those other ships, but the specials should be balanced against each OTHER as well.

Pick one (or more): More armor, an L port (at the expense of an s port), the agility of a valk or vult (it's got SIX thrusters), etc. I'd actually take a HIT to cargo capacity for some of that. Look at it. It's built for speed. It's a secure courier by design, a second rate by implementation.

But the Maud has those two arm thingies sticking out of it, and that really cool looking cargo tail in the back. And it looks really neat when you're turboing because it has so many thrusters. How could you not love it?

Besides, I don't have time to be trading all day, so whatever gets me my money fastest is what I'll go with, even if there is a little bit more risk. Other than that, yes the centaur is a superior tradeship if you want security for your goods. It's like an armored car.

The problem with the centaur is that it has no chance of getting away from any pirate. What you're missing is that what everyone calls agility is acceleration. The centaur couldn't reach 200m/s with a fc battery for example, where as the maud reaches that speed with more than half it's battery left.

A maud with a med engine can easily get away from any ship with a hvy engine, and if the maud pilot is more skilled than the chaser they can get away from any ship config.

A centaur can't get away from anything if the chaser has any competence (and the centaur is more than 5m from a dock).

the centaur is a damn death trap heh
and dont bother spending your money on a heavy engine you rarely ever even make it to 180 before your battery runs out so anyone who wants a piece of your cargo can have it.

I love the pizza cutter, i use tri gauss and bot with it in s17 and 18 all the time it's a fast little bastard for a trade ship, good acceleration, easy to get running at 200 so you can escape your enemies. the Centaur is like a flying turkey, it is big, slow and very very easy to hit. I'd place my bets on a pizza cutter any day

eldrad uses energy. Most pirates dont use energy.

If you want a good comparison for pirates, ask archon or icarus to come and take you out with your centaur. I wonder how long you will survive.

Eldrads prime forte isnt pirating you know.

cheers

"Magus, euhm the valk is a fighter. Then it is normal that it will win from a tradeship."
-Thus, the valk gets the ability to take over all of the other special's talents. You can easily pirate a marauder and make money, and currently, bombers are useless. I've said it before. Giving one nation a combat advantage will give them an overall advantage against the other nations. If you want an advanced fighter, fine, but it isn't fair to allow one nation access to a ship which is theoretically unkillable.

I agree with Magus - an average Blue pilot in a valk has the total advantage over every other ship in the game... considering the point of the game right now is to not die. I think everyone should just play as blue. Since they have the best ship, and only the cappers get paid (and are expected to pay only those who helped cap), why not just start a blue char and form clans with no allegiance to Itani as a whole? The iron slug moves like one, and the maud ain't so special. So why not?

However, that's probably a discussion best left to another thread.

Rene:

> eldrad uses energy. Most pirates dont use energy.

True. Note also that I actually got ambushed before we could sort-of duel.

> If you want a good comparison for pirates, ask archon or icarus to come and take you out with your centaur. I wonder how long you will survive.

See above posts. I've already proven the Centaur's worth in battles versus Icarus. Since his mini-war with me and my mine ships (which ended at a standoff), he's not pirated me once in a ship capable of dropping mines. Of course, he's kicked my butt in every other ship I fly in... This is a tactical advantage that the Maud doesn't have. Let's face it - no matter what ship you have, very few people can successfully defeat Icarus if he's attacked you. The fact that I have defeated him once, and griefed the griefer often enough for him to go bother someone else, with a cent, proves my point. In 3.2, early 3.3, when Uncle Dave was on that hard-core pirate streak, he seemed to learn to avoid me too. I haven't seen him on lately to know if he's still pirating or if I'm a valid target once again, but I could fly right past his valk in sector seven and not a shot would be fired.

Speed, acceleration, however it's nit-picked, does not give you a sufficient advantage against a ship armed with rockets, because the velocity of the ship is added to the inherent velocity of the projectile. You can't out run it since it's faster than you. So you either dodge, slowing as you do, which just makes it either to get hit, or you turn and fight, which is just just cutting your own head off and putting it on a silver platter. Or you just RUN and drop some mines. At least until new defensive weapons are introduced. You're only choice is to try to get away.

So you're right, rene. Dueling Eldrad, or putting up a fight against 0 (who used energy weapons) is not indicative of fighting a pirate armed with rockets. But then, if I can make a reasonable stand versus them in a Centaur AND make my tradeship unprofitable for someone who is arguably the best rocket-toting pirate in the game, you've proven my point.

I'm not even saying the Maud must have mines (I wouldn't DREAM of oppressing the guy who decides the ship confiurations). That's for the devs to decide. But autoaim weapons are useless versus human pilots in a valk (as opposed to botting with a tri-gauss), and the maud can't react fast enough to avoid a valk attack. You can't dodge, you can't run (OMGtehROCKETS), so that leaves a war of attrition.

And in that situation, I think the Cent has an advantage over the Maud. All things being even, I can afford to die two or three times as often as the pirate in the valk. I can deal more damage at a lower cost with a Cent than in a Maud. Versus a valk, you can't escape with either trade ship, unless you have a significant head start (and if you have that, even a Cent can outrun a valk).

Icarus, or any pirate or griefer worth his salt, will kill me every single time, no matter what ship I'm in. As long as he catches me, anyway. The strategy here is to make it as unfun to kill me as it is for me to die. The fact that a player has to come up with that kind of strategy in this game is, to me, an error in the game itself, but that is also something for another thread. I can't survive in a Maud (or afford it) in that kind of situation - and that is a situation that is common to traders and their ships. So if a tradeship, supposedly inferior to the "special" tradeship, is superior in deterring pirates (the bane of traders), what's so special about the Maud?

"I haven't seen him on lately to know if he's still pirating or if I'm a valid target once again, but I could fly right past his valk in sector seven and not a shot would be fired. In 3.2, early 3.3, when Uncle Dave was on that hard-core pirate streak, he seemed to learn to avoid me too."

Yeah right. :P I attack all traders, regardless of my chances- I was attacking mauds and centaurs in my only vulture, because the profits from pirating can be great. And the vulture is a cheap ship. Plus after about 3.2.7/8 I stopped pirating, so thats probably why I "learned to avoid you".

:P.

"All things being even, I can afford to die two or three times as often as the pirate in the valk. I can deal more damage at a lower cost with a Cent than in a Maud."

L port weapons cost more than S port weapons. Not to mention the fact that a large proportion of the cash locked up in that ship is IN THE CARGO.

Deal more damage? If you say so. But nobody is stupid enough to run into 3 or 4 consecutive mines twice in a row. You may see people off once, but the second time theyll know what youre gonna do and chase you right through that wormhole.

the only question you have to ask yourself is this: a pirate will kill a maud and rag asap correct?

if the maud costs more then the rag is a good choice, if you are gonna die either way then the most logical thing to do is to log out and wait a while. yes the maud is more expensive and more agile, yes the rag is less costly and less agile, just depends on what you want to do money wise. wanna spend more money use the maud, dont care use either, wanna save money use the rag.

WANNA SAVE A LOT OF MONEY: TRADE WHEN YOU ARE IN SOMEWAY SHAPE OR FORM SAFE FROM PIRATES

-io

xoch, then maybe you are right,

But I can avoid icarus in my maud. "If I know tha the is on"

While I am a sitting duck in my centaur, I get taken out every frigging time.

So because of that I have formed my opinion, and I keep that, and whatever anybody says, it are through my experiences and my personal opinion. So if other people trade better in a centaur, then ok, but that is your way.

But in my opinion the marauder is a great jack of all trades

cheers

xoch, you say you were at 50%, but you were flaming, which means under 30%. 0 left you at flaming cause he didn't want to kill you.

"WANNA SAVE A LOT OF MONEY: TRADE WHEN YOU ARE IN SOMEWAY SHAPE OR FORM SAFE FROM PIRATES"

Excellent point IO. I have yet to be pirated. Even though I've been chased by em (including Icarus) a couple of times. Granted some of that was luck. But why do I run into so few pirates? I play when they are usually NOT ONLINE.

popsicle sticks.......

Actually, it should probably be mentioned that before the reset, Durgia and I did a little practice session in which he tried to pirate my Maud in a valk. Durgia camped the 9-8 wormhole, I would exit and head for the station at a leisurely pace. Once I hear Durgia's rockets headed my way, I switch into manual turbo and try to dodge. Durgia would have killed me every time if not for a semi-sucidal move I had to pull in my maud. As the rockets were blazing towards me I turned around and boosted right into them firing rockets of my own making Durgia issue. Since most pirates stop after firing their flares, it wouldn't work, but it should be noted that the only way for a Maud (with a pilot of equal skill) to beat a valk is by rocket ramming and/or luck. Is that really what you want?

I say the marauder (robster as i like to call it) should have the weapons of a warthog, that way we can mine the filthy pirates. Ya know, counter cheap the cheapness. Its the only way my centaur gets by...

Maybe just give the Maud 2 small and 1 Large port....or how about 3 large ports for fun!

While we're at it, why don't we bump the prom back to its original 28k hull, just for fun!

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Maybe just give the Maud 2 small and 1 Large port....or how about 3 large ports for fun!
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I have to say no to that. That'd make my centaur obsolete.