[jangling keys meaningfully]

Hey FM, if I make fun of you or otherwise annoy you, will you use those keys? How about if I drag the thread off-topic?

I'll drag it back on topic, so don't bother trying.

Most of these "vets" in valks are one trick ponies. Put them in any other ship and they WILL be owned. Just look at the comments most of the avowed Valk user make when you challenge them to a fair fight.

"I HATE the vult."
"The vulture sucks."
or the ever popular
"You've been Thunderclaw'd."

It's garbage. The reason most of us lose to vets in valks is because it is the only ship capable of doing that jousting, hit & run, thing. If the valk is talented at it there is nothing anyone can do. Sure if the vult and valk were in a duel the vult might win, but just because you have trouble hitting a vult doesn't mean it WILL win. It's just a matter of moving over the vult and hitting it on its broad side. Considering that the valk is agile enough to get up there before the vult can pan to face it, it is not all that hard to do. Methinks constantly boosting away from close quarters fighting makes valk jocks poor dodgers. I have been able to dodge a 2x gauss vult in a hornet, which has about the same profile and is much much slower. It just takes practice.


"Oh, and the other two special ships don't have the valks ability to run away."
-Exactly, when considering longevity, you have to consider its ability to escape as well as its health. I have flown the valk many times. I, in fact, have a character that uses valks exclusively. I do realize that it is, quite fragile. But in a valk I can make mistakes and come out alive (but limping) that those same mistakes would have gotten me killed had I been in a vulture. And even if they left me limping, if I were in a valk I would simply be able to run and fight another day. Meanwhile, the limping vulture will be blown to bits.

The Valkyrie is still the best ship in the game. If you could take almost any pilot, clone him, and have him fight himself vulture vs. valkyrie the valk would usually win.

It's not as ridiculous as it once was, thanks to changes to the valk and the new rocket firing rate, but it's still the best.

But that's okay!

It's a special ship and it's meant to be the best fighter. The things just need to become rare, highly prized rewards instead of being easily obtained by any Itani pilot. The Prometheus and Marauder should be equally rare.

Then again, this is just an engine test so in some cases playability, fairness and balance may have to take a back seat to getting things tested... including ships.

Asp

Kuvagh, i partly agree. certainly, the valk is the most advanced fighter in the current state of the game. Nevertheless, they are managable with a vult and gauss/flare combo for example. Even with a touchpad i managed to take down tri-flare valks. certainly, even unskilled pilots can ram with tri-flare. the art is to avoid the rockets and take the oppurtinity to hit them while they are most vulnerable. btw. i do not claim to be an artist in this sense.

concerning the comments above: proms and pizza cutters can take out valks too. especially cutters are quite reliable with a tri-flare config.

I realize that it is supposed to be the best fighter in the game, and that is my problem with it. A combat advantage essentially nullifies any other advantage other people may get. You can pirate the people with trading advantages, you can run circles around even the best of bombers. On top of that, your transit time and longevity are significantly improved due to your agility. A distinct combat advantage shouldn't belong to any one nation unless you're going for an implicit lack of a balance of power. If you do want a balance of power, you will need to give the other nations traits that are equally potent in combat. Stroy-wise, you may be able to make the NT weaker militarily, but making the Serco military weak just borders on absurdity.

The serco military isn't weak. The valk is easily challenged in other ships. The prometheus, flown by a capable pilot, can destroy any valk flown by a pilot of equal skill. The warthog and Vult are also good counters.

I must agree with roguelazer on his points.

1) Any compentent Serco pilot in a Prom can bag and tag at least 2 Valks before having to retreat to repair.

2) Valks are fine for speed but are bad at armament.

3) Vult is great counter because it is thin, 'cept broadside, and the Hog can counter because it is small, fast, and has an AGT

[SDF] Black 1

I like flying a maurader in combat better than a valk anyways

Arm that valk with Geminis and a tach and we'll see how well the Prom can "bag-n-tag" it.

One of the biggest problems with the valk vs other ship is the same problem of F-22 vs Su-37. Namely the 37 can negate the 22's advantage (in this case stealth). Similarly the valk can negate the heavy ship advantage by dodgeing anything and everything. Sure a vult can dodge a lot but the valk can dodge EVERYTHING (assuming the pilot is skilled). The valk can negate the light ship speed advantage of speed because it is the fastest.

The ships that can expect to win are vult (dual gauss slaughters all non-rocket valks) hog (though a few ppl CAN dodge adv.gat fire) and prom (only slightly slower than hog and more firepower/health)

The question is how can we fix it?

Where the light ships are fragile and the heavies are hard to control the valk is simple to use, powerful and has a high survival rate.

So what you're saying Daon Randiv is we need an F-15E?

Joking,

[SDF] Pyroman_Ace

PS: Fix is easy enough, simply add a Large Gun port to the Valk, take away one of the small ports and add an extra 2000 health to it.

/me shivers at the idea of a valk with a large port.

[posts deleted by request]

IMHO, no ship should have "acceleration" as a separate statistic. In (theoretically obstacle-free) space, acceleration is mass vs. thrust +/- any previous inertia you may have. No aerodynamics come into play, so unless there's something else going on, the much smaller 1-slot Centurion with a medium engine should lap the 3-slot Valkyrie with the medium easily. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. Why not?

Because their is a bug in the code that doesnt allow that :D. But that was the intention, yes.

It's not that extreme 66% of the vendetta population use valks exclusively surely that tells you something

Coool, Im one of the 33%. I use proms or vults exclusively :D

I don't want to nerf the valk either. I just want something about it to change so it's not the ONLY viable combat ship

If you change the valk, then the vult will become the preevalent ship. So you will just be replacing the problem and changing a decent ship.

cheers

how about this:
we take away the vulture from the free market, and gives it to Itani instead of the valk.(the vult would still be avaliable in 18)
The valk should then only be made avaliable in certain sectors, IF, and only if, specific objectives have been meet with succes.
?!?

66% use valks? Wow. I must be lucky, I meet the 33% EXCLUSIVELY.

Wow - I used a valk for five minutes and thought the hype was way overblown - I die in a vult, I still die in a valk. Meh.

Yeah, you're right it's not 66% that was a mistake it's 80%. 66% was meant to be two thirds but I just realised blue have twice the numbers of both red and gold combined.