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How can New players build up when Pirates are able to jump into their new home sections and kill them during missions and stuff, even when you outrun them they know where you went or are going, they even can jump after you and be there waiting for you when you get there, New players are not for target practice for older players, they need a chance to get skilled up a bit to be able to defend themselves... I am unsure what rules about greefing killing is in game But this Maxx Metals sure pushes it on New players.. Guess he is too scared to go after people who can fight back...
But how does this help the game to get and Keep new players?
But how does this help the game to get and Keep new players?
Get good, get even - Vendetta Online.
Space is not safe in this game, even for newbies, once they leave the training sector. Pirates and "greefers" get bored quickly and will usually leave you alone after they kill you a couple times. Dying means very little as ships are cheap and credits are easy to make. Learn from each encounter and soon you will be able to leave them in the dust.
Space is not safe in this game, even for newbies, once they leave the training sector. Pirates and "greefers" get bored quickly and will usually leave you alone after they kill you a couple times. Dying means very little as ships are cheap and credits are easy to make. Learn from each encounter and soon you will be able to leave them in the dust.
newbies are given every advantage to fight back against attackers in nation space. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. quit complaining and go shoot lazers
New players are not for target practice for older players
All evidence is to the contrary.
All evidence is to the contrary.
Right beneath the distance meter in your HUD, you will see the status of the area you are in:
Guarded - anyone that destroys you will receive a faction penalty proportionate to your standing in the faction that controls the space you are in, and will be immediately hunted. If you are in your home territory, there's a good chance that they will lose a lot of standing (you'll know it when the 'forgive kill'? dialog box comes up) which is a pretty good deterrent to most pirates unless you've done something to really tick them off. Capitol stations and wormhole sectors on either side of capitol star systems and national borders also have defensive turrets that are extremely powerful, and difficult to evade for very long. Not all guarded zones have turrets, so it's good to be aware by checking the sector list ('u' key on pc).
Monitored - anyone that destroys you will receive a faction penalty proportionate to your standing in the faction that controls the space you are in, and will eventually be hunted (like, within 1 minute). Any alert pilot will have time to evade the Strike Force before they arrive; once they get within 1km, however, those things can be like bloodhounds. The main deterrent is the faction penalty; always be aware of whose faction space you are in, and what your standing in that faction is (having good standing doesn't mean you get to kill another pilot without penalty, but others will be less likely to kill you). Most asteroid belts in nation space are monitored. Someone with bad faction standing that enters a monitored sector will eventually be hunted by the Strike Force, so this makes it hard for a pirate to operate in monitored sectors for very long.
Unmonitored - as the name suggests, anything goes in these sectors.
Also be aware of the No Fire Zone (NFZ) that surrounds all stations. If you are within the NFZ and shoot another player once, even by mistake, you will be hunted for 15 minutes or until you are destroyed. Good pilots can evade the Strike Force so this isn't a safety guarantee, but it does make life more difficult for the aggressor. It's always a bad idea to shoot back at someone inside the NFZ unless you are absolutely certain of what you are doing. If you trip the NFZ KOS by damaging another ship with weapons fire, you forgo the faction standing protection that triggers when you are destroyed (this can be avoided in some cases, apparently. Still, I wouldn't recommend it unless you're sure).
To echo what tarenty said; the vast majority of the time death doesn't mean much. Get good, get back, get even: that's the Vendetta way. I guarantee you'll remember the name of whoever killed you for a long time, and you may be around playing for a long time after he or she is gone. Greefing doesn't really exist in this game. Then there's genuine abuse, which is very rare, and should always be reported to a dev or guide. I can't think of a single instance where I've had to take action because of this, Whistler has been around as a guide for a lot longer. Killing someone else is not greefing. This is a game that has stood the test of time, and the mechanics have been around for a while.
Learn from your mistakes, pick yourself back up, and keep on going. That is how to become a great pilot. I'd apply that label to everyone who has responded so far, by the way (tarenty, TheRedSpy, and Dr. Lecter).
Guarded - anyone that destroys you will receive a faction penalty proportionate to your standing in the faction that controls the space you are in, and will be immediately hunted. If you are in your home territory, there's a good chance that they will lose a lot of standing (you'll know it when the 'forgive kill'? dialog box comes up) which is a pretty good deterrent to most pirates unless you've done something to really tick them off. Capitol stations and wormhole sectors on either side of capitol star systems and national borders also have defensive turrets that are extremely powerful, and difficult to evade for very long. Not all guarded zones have turrets, so it's good to be aware by checking the sector list ('u' key on pc).
Monitored - anyone that destroys you will receive a faction penalty proportionate to your standing in the faction that controls the space you are in, and will eventually be hunted (like, within 1 minute). Any alert pilot will have time to evade the Strike Force before they arrive; once they get within 1km, however, those things can be like bloodhounds. The main deterrent is the faction penalty; always be aware of whose faction space you are in, and what your standing in that faction is (having good standing doesn't mean you get to kill another pilot without penalty, but others will be less likely to kill you). Most asteroid belts in nation space are monitored. Someone with bad faction standing that enters a monitored sector will eventually be hunted by the Strike Force, so this makes it hard for a pirate to operate in monitored sectors for very long.
Unmonitored - as the name suggests, anything goes in these sectors.
Also be aware of the No Fire Zone (NFZ) that surrounds all stations. If you are within the NFZ and shoot another player once, even by mistake, you will be hunted for 15 minutes or until you are destroyed. Good pilots can evade the Strike Force so this isn't a safety guarantee, but it does make life more difficult for the aggressor. It's always a bad idea to shoot back at someone inside the NFZ unless you are absolutely certain of what you are doing. If you trip the NFZ KOS by damaging another ship with weapons fire, you forgo the faction standing protection that triggers when you are destroyed (this can be avoided in some cases, apparently. Still, I wouldn't recommend it unless you're sure).
To echo what tarenty said; the vast majority of the time death doesn't mean much. Get good, get back, get even: that's the Vendetta way. I guarantee you'll remember the name of whoever killed you for a long time, and you may be around playing for a long time after he or she is gone. Greefing doesn't really exist in this game. Then there's genuine abuse, which is very rare, and should always be reported to a dev or guide. I can't think of a single instance where I've had to take action because of this, Whistler has been around as a guide for a lot longer. Killing someone else is not greefing. This is a game that has stood the test of time, and the mechanics have been around for a while.
Learn from your mistakes, pick yourself back up, and keep on going. That is how to become a great pilot. I'd apply that label to everyone who has responded so far, by the way (tarenty, TheRedSpy, and Dr. Lecter).
Shooting back works much better at posting a thread, trust me.
Well I would shoot back but he instant kills me in our sectors and for getting bored he did it for hours
a death or 2 I dont mind but constantly and him being able to warp faster and wait for me when I get out the other side makes it hard for new players and the newplayer training zone lasts for 3 missions then you leave... deaths is not a problem Greefing is, kill or 2 then move on is ok but chasing them for hours around and around not letting them even have a chance thats not
the responces I got here seem to be From pirates who dont want this brought out not from NON Pirates
a death or 2 I dont mind but constantly and him being able to warp faster and wait for me when I get out the other side makes it hard for new players and the newplayer training zone lasts for 3 missions then you leave... deaths is not a problem Greefing is, kill or 2 then move on is ok but chasing them for hours around and around not letting them even have a chance thats not
the responces I got here seem to be From pirates who dont want this brought out not from NON Pirates
How many times did he actually kill you?
TheRedSpy, Phaserlight, and Snake7561 are not pirates. Phaserlight is actually a member of the Vipers, which is an anti-pirate guild, and he is also a guide (basically a GM).
Being a vet doesn't let you jump any faster than anybody else. You can improve your jump speed a little though - there is an option to have the game preload sectors. Setting that option results in the game starting up more slowly, but jumps will be a little faster.
Also, don't just plot one random jump. Plot a whole bunch to different empty sectors (hold shift while you click to plot multiple waypoints). Then once you start jumping, hold down the enter key so that you'll jump again the instant your energy refills. The entry positions tend to be randomized within the same region of the sector, so eventually you'll get lucky and warp in more than 1km from the pirate, which means he won't see where you jump out to.
When somebody camps you instead of moving on and you lack the ability to evade them, try asking for help in chat. This is a multiplayer game after all. The [VPR] guild in particular ought to jump at the chance. If you're a Serco or Itani, you could try getting the relevant nationalist guild to help you ([RED]/[BR1] for Serco, [ITAN] for Itanis). Those groups consider themselves to be essentially their nations' millitaries, so they ought to take defending their newbs seriously. There is currently no nationalist group for the UIT, but you could try [TGFT], who are a trade guild with a number of very veteran pilots.
And note that most pirates accept payment to leave you alone for a day, though they tend to revoke that option or charge you extra if you at first refuse to cooperate, and especially if you express the "never pay!" mentality. Paying off pirates isn't something to be ashamed of. It's just a cost of doing business. It's just like, "Oh okay, you caught me. Here's the 'protection' money." No big deal. I used to pay pirates myself when I played a trader, and plenty of veteran traders do as well - they just aren't public about it, and the pirates mostly tend to respect the privacy of those who pay.
EDIT: Oh, and no he doesn't insta-kill you. Most ships can be killed very quickly if you land every shot, but it still takes a couple seconds of sustained fire unless you hit them with a bunch of flares or missiles simultaneously. And if you dodge, even in a newbie ship, they will miss enough that you survive for a good bit. The centurion is a fighter craft that even very low level newbs have access to which can dodge well enough to fight a greyhound, which is the ship Maxx usually prefers. Greyhounds are excellent at chasing, but pretty poor at combat. Strafe in random directions, and try to throw a little curve into your motions as well to make it harder to track them. If you can, try to watch which way his nose is pointing and move in the direction that maximizes the amount of rotation he'll have to do to aim at you. Unless, of course, he is already rotating quickly in that direction, in which case going the opposite way might make his inertia work for you.
Being a vet doesn't let you jump any faster than anybody else. You can improve your jump speed a little though - there is an option to have the game preload sectors. Setting that option results in the game starting up more slowly, but jumps will be a little faster.
Also, don't just plot one random jump. Plot a whole bunch to different empty sectors (hold shift while you click to plot multiple waypoints). Then once you start jumping, hold down the enter key so that you'll jump again the instant your energy refills. The entry positions tend to be randomized within the same region of the sector, so eventually you'll get lucky and warp in more than 1km from the pirate, which means he won't see where you jump out to.
When somebody camps you instead of moving on and you lack the ability to evade them, try asking for help in chat. This is a multiplayer game after all. The [VPR] guild in particular ought to jump at the chance. If you're a Serco or Itani, you could try getting the relevant nationalist guild to help you ([RED]/[BR1] for Serco, [ITAN] for Itanis). Those groups consider themselves to be essentially their nations' millitaries, so they ought to take defending their newbs seriously. There is currently no nationalist group for the UIT, but you could try [TGFT], who are a trade guild with a number of very veteran pilots.
And note that most pirates accept payment to leave you alone for a day, though they tend to revoke that option or charge you extra if you at first refuse to cooperate, and especially if you express the "never pay!" mentality. Paying off pirates isn't something to be ashamed of. It's just a cost of doing business. It's just like, "Oh okay, you caught me. Here's the 'protection' money." No big deal. I used to pay pirates myself when I played a trader, and plenty of veteran traders do as well - they just aren't public about it, and the pirates mostly tend to respect the privacy of those who pay.
EDIT: Oh, and no he doesn't insta-kill you. Most ships can be killed very quickly if you land every shot, but it still takes a couple seconds of sustained fire unless you hit them with a bunch of flares or missiles simultaneously. And if you dodge, even in a newbie ship, they will miss enough that you survive for a good bit. The centurion is a fighter craft that even very low level newbs have access to which can dodge well enough to fight a greyhound, which is the ship Maxx usually prefers. Greyhounds are excellent at chasing, but pretty poor at combat. Strafe in random directions, and try to throw a little curve into your motions as well to make it harder to track them. If you can, try to watch which way his nose is pointing and move in the direction that maximizes the amount of rotation he'll have to do to aim at you. Unless, of course, he is already rotating quickly in that direction, in which case going the opposite way might make his inertia work for you.
If you just want to get out and fly in peace, try something I call "Run Silent, Run Deep".
Log off and wait for a little while. Go make a snack, and then come back.
While in the station, plot out a multi-hop course within the current system grid, making sure to avoid crossing over or landing in sectors which contain anything (thus avoiding ion storms). Don't try to take a mission for this - you want to be unburdened and unpredictable. Make it at least 3 hops, each into an empty sector. Leave the station and immediately proceed to jumping distance so you can get out of sight. As soon as you arrive at your nav point, jump again, and again to the next one. Don't linger. Now you should be in an empty sector with nobody around. Fly in one direction while you prepare you nave points. You'll probably want to leave the system and via a wormhole that you have not been seen at previously. You may want to lay in a course, as above, that takes you to the wormhole grid and then back out into open space, just in case there are pirates when you arrive at the wormhole and you need to escape. If there is nobody there when you arrive, proceed to the wormhole while laying in a quick nav route for the other side which will allow you to again jump into empty space right away. Continue this until you are in a safer area.
There is a thrill of the chase element if you are detected, and at least the pleasure of getting out if nobody spotted you. Go kill bots or duel with a better player if you want to get your skills up, or continue to run silent if you just want to trade or mine in peace.
If you can't tolerate the danger, then VO is probably not for you.
Log off and wait for a little while. Go make a snack, and then come back.
While in the station, plot out a multi-hop course within the current system grid, making sure to avoid crossing over or landing in sectors which contain anything (thus avoiding ion storms). Don't try to take a mission for this - you want to be unburdened and unpredictable. Make it at least 3 hops, each into an empty sector. Leave the station and immediately proceed to jumping distance so you can get out of sight. As soon as you arrive at your nav point, jump again, and again to the next one. Don't linger. Now you should be in an empty sector with nobody around. Fly in one direction while you prepare you nave points. You'll probably want to leave the system and via a wormhole that you have not been seen at previously. You may want to lay in a course, as above, that takes you to the wormhole grid and then back out into open space, just in case there are pirates when you arrive at the wormhole and you need to escape. If there is nobody there when you arrive, proceed to the wormhole while laying in a quick nav route for the other side which will allow you to again jump into empty space right away. Continue this until you are in a safer area.
There is a thrill of the chase element if you are detected, and at least the pleasure of getting out if nobody spotted you. Go kill bots or duel with a better player if you want to get your skills up, or continue to run silent if you just want to trade or mine in peace.
If you can't tolerate the danger, then VO is probably not for you.
Greyhounds are excellent at chasing, but pretty poor at combat.
They haul a swarm missile launcher around like a champ though, which will make short work of a Centurion... Maxx picks on newbs. Most pirates don't.
They haul a swarm missile launcher around like a champ though, which will make short work of a Centurion... Maxx picks on newbs. Most pirates don't.
Good point, though swarms are ammo based, meaning they have to eventually be reloaded. That gives you time to escape. Since he claims to have been camped for hours, it implies that Maxx was killing him with energy (I'm discounting the claim of instant death as newb hyperbole, though the being camped for hours bit probably is as well).
Well I lost count after 5 times
But enough
He can reload faster than I can get a new ship
But enough
He can reload faster than I can get a new ship
If there are genuine problems with the game, I think they are:
* There's no penalty for killing neutral people, and lots of corporate factions around UIT space with default neutral standing.
* Standing penalties don't care who's the initial aggressor; admired pirate shoots neutral newb a couple times to provoke a reaction, then lets newb kill him. Newb loses standing.
* The NFZ applies even if the target is KOS; it should not.
Pirates and other combat vets know how these things work and can either avoid standing loss or manage their standings to be able to do what they want. Newbs don't, and it probably shouldn't be possible to kill anybody repeatedly at a station without consequences more serious than temp-KOS.
* There's no penalty for killing neutral people, and lots of corporate factions around UIT space with default neutral standing.
* Standing penalties don't care who's the initial aggressor; admired pirate shoots neutral newb a couple times to provoke a reaction, then lets newb kill him. Newb loses standing.
* The NFZ applies even if the target is KOS; it should not.
Pirates and other combat vets know how these things work and can either avoid standing loss or manage their standings to be able to do what they want. Newbs don't, and it probably shouldn't be possible to kill anybody repeatedly at a station without consequences more serious than temp-KOS.
"Pirates targeting only new players to game"
How many pirates have ye encountered in this game to call this statement a truth?
We pirates target everyone in this game including Newbs and sometimes we even engage other pirates in combat.
Commercial ships can be blown opened to steal loot, or pilots can be asked a toll fer safe passage.
Most of us check the pilot license to request a reasonable ransom.
Though i restrain meself to pirate in grayspace only, i will not ask, as CO of @X, any of my guild members to restrain 'em gameplay in any sort.
Ye can ask fer help on chat channel, it is quite normal that most pirates will make fun of ye, but ye should find other players willing to help.
ye have to consider how ye call fer help though. If ye start whinin' and criticizing the game, most people who are not pirates, will stop caring immediately 'bout yer fate.
Just ask for help on 100 like this: "I am being cornered in a station by Maxx Metal, can somebody help me please?"
Ye should find some people willing to help ye quite easily , or just wanting to kill Maxx.
PS: ye could even hire me to kill Maxx :p
Capt'N Blood
Jolly Roger Inc.
How many pirates have ye encountered in this game to call this statement a truth?
We pirates target everyone in this game including Newbs and sometimes we even engage other pirates in combat.
Commercial ships can be blown opened to steal loot, or pilots can be asked a toll fer safe passage.
Most of us check the pilot license to request a reasonable ransom.
Though i restrain meself to pirate in grayspace only, i will not ask, as CO of @X, any of my guild members to restrain 'em gameplay in any sort.
Ye can ask fer help on chat channel, it is quite normal that most pirates will make fun of ye, but ye should find other players willing to help.
ye have to consider how ye call fer help though. If ye start whinin' and criticizing the game, most people who are not pirates, will stop caring immediately 'bout yer fate.
Just ask for help on 100 like this: "I am being cornered in a station by Maxx Metal, can somebody help me please?"
Ye should find some people willing to help ye quite easily , or just wanting to kill Maxx.
PS: ye could even hire me to kill Maxx :p
Capt'N Blood
Jolly Roger Inc.
I forgot to mention We are but 2 days old and asked for help from them on the help channel sence New players dont know that we can ask on channel 100 we are barely out of Newbie ship
I still consider myself to be new(ish) so I can sympathise with the newbie sentiment. When you're starting out for the first time it can seem unfair that licenses prevent you getting better equipment that might allow you to fight back and pirates killing you prevents you getting those licenses. However, any game needs to control the pace of new characters' development in order to prevent experienced players creating alts every 5 minutes and also the game needs to present challenges at all levels of play.
Personally I think the problem for newbies is at initial character creation. The RP backstory tells them of two warring nations and a third independent/neutral nation. For someone starting out in VO and unsure of what they want to do UIT sounds like the best choice but it probably isn't, unless they want to get into PvP quickly and don't mind dying. Despite how the RP backstory reads it's much better for new starters, unsure of what the game will be like, to start as Itani or Serco.
Maybe the blurb on the nation selection screen should be reworded to make UIT sound less attractive to newbies.
Personally I think the problem for newbies is at initial character creation. The RP backstory tells them of two warring nations and a third independent/neutral nation. For someone starting out in VO and unsure of what they want to do UIT sounds like the best choice but it probably isn't, unless they want to get into PvP quickly and don't mind dying. Despite how the RP backstory reads it's much better for new starters, unsure of what the game will be like, to start as Itani or Serco.
Maybe the blurb on the nation selection screen should be reworded to make UIT sound less attractive to newbies.
"UIT: come join our stations, get wailed on by the Serco... and mistrusted by the Itani"... something to that effect? (my main is UIT, by the way, and I happen to love this nation).
I'm not saying that UIT isn't a great nation. I think it's a fantastic nation for some players. I'm just saying that it's not necessarily the best choice for people new to VO and especially those new to PvP.
When you read the nation bios as someone new to VO you read about read about the two warring nations. The aggressive Serco with their justified hatred of Itan and Itan on the defensive but with a past to be ashamed of. A new player may well think "I've read the background but I don't know what the universe is really like yet, I don't even know what I want to do in the game, maybe I'll just trade or mine. Oh! The UIT are neutral, that's got to be better than picking a side in a war that I don't really know anything about." UIT sounds like the safe option but it isn't really.
Or to put it another way a newbie reads: "Serco: warring faction = dangerous. Itan: warring faction = dangerous. UIT, neutral = safe" but they should be able to infer "Serco: at war but safe in their core systems. Itan: at war but safe in their core systems. UIT: Neutral but with a high risk of crime."
Perhaps the blurb for UIT should include something like "The UIT, independent and neutral, a place for the bold and the brave, or the foolish. where the rewards can be high but so are the risks."
When you read the nation bios as someone new to VO you read about read about the two warring nations. The aggressive Serco with their justified hatred of Itan and Itan on the defensive but with a past to be ashamed of. A new player may well think "I've read the background but I don't know what the universe is really like yet, I don't even know what I want to do in the game, maybe I'll just trade or mine. Oh! The UIT are neutral, that's got to be better than picking a side in a war that I don't really know anything about." UIT sounds like the safe option but it isn't really.
Or to put it another way a newbie reads: "Serco: warring faction = dangerous. Itan: warring faction = dangerous. UIT, neutral = safe" but they should be able to infer "Serco: at war but safe in their core systems. Itan: at war but safe in their core systems. UIT: Neutral but with a high risk of crime."
Perhaps the blurb for UIT should include something like "The UIT, independent and neutral, a place for the bold and the brave, or the foolish. where the rewards can be high but so are the risks."
That's well stated Helena Lycia. I went with Serco because the vulture looked good in Serco Red, but that was long before there were nations and nation spaces. I think I would have gone with UIT had a read the current description as a new player.