I haven't been here in at least five years. I see things are still chugging along. You even have a tablet version now, very impressive. Was it still on version 1.8 back then?

It looks like my account may still be active. Perhaps I will poke around more.

...because we pay them money?

Vendetta Online does most things Right; it's one of the few games I still have time for (it's actually pretty much the only Video Game I have time for at all; the other games I was thinking of were Mancala and Horse).

lol, phaser as always being the upstanding corporate advocate.

They're in business because they diversified into the mobile gaming market. VO is the premier tech demo on android devices. Hooray \o/

User interface aside, the game does look pretty damn nice on a Tegra3 tablet with a high DPI IPS display...

God help em.

The game is very good in my opinion, but the business / sales aspect elude even them.

Being in business and making money are 2 different things.

NOT going out of business is a good thing on a technicality.
However, defining ones business as a successful business vs being open for business is a clear distinction.

Now what ?

I hate to come in here and harp on this all the time but where's all the darn players after all this time ? I want to play.

I wouldn't even care if they offered the game for free and restrict them to drive a bus or rev with no option to earn or lose faction or xp unless the subscribe or just purchase creds or xp or faction with real cash to cred conversion or something

I don't know but it's quick quit and Deneb is very light at well.

Anyhow I wish the best to everyone for the new year and hope to see huge player turn out.

I would gladly re subscribe if there was more activity

Happy New Year

Well, you can always make that population +1. That is in your power.

Happy New Year

If they offered a little longer trial experience (either 16 hours gameplay or 1 free week trial) they might be able to hook people longer especially on their shiny new ipads. Even though the downside is some people would inevitably use the accounts to create alts I think overall it would be better for the game.

Think about it, more trial users flying around would increase the ingame population and make the universe seem a little more used.

Anyone with me?

Absolutely no to using cash to increase creds or xp. There are already a number of games ruined that way. Also, the inability to lose faction would be easily abused within minutes. Perhaps there is something to be said for using free accounts to increase the ambient live playerbase, but it needs to be limited to prevent a multitude of bots and so forth.

Yuutuu1 "If they offered a little longer trial experience (either 16 hours gameplay or 1 free week trial) they might be able to hook people longer especially on their shiny new ipads. "

ummm VO doesn't run on Ipads (thank god)

ummm VO doesn't run on Ipads (thank god)

I'm pretty sure it does, they just cannot publish it.

Anyway, they are still in business simply because they are. Sure, the player base my cry about a lack of marketing, but VO has had some real good exposure recently, and was even featured in a TV advert for Motarola.

Plus, people like myself always seem to stick around. Yeah, I'm not subbed at the moment, but every now and again I like to pop in and shoot newbs like yourself.

I just wish there was more player.

I don't believe the current marketing strategy is working
The Motorola ad is ancient history like 2 years ago or something and was exciting.

I think at best, some sort free to play option would be good for VO and the word certainly would get out.
Even FREE to play with only limited stations and/or sector access or something would be cool.

Maybe let them work up standing and/nation standing in their nation space only
Maybe something like this: When you try to jump to another nation space the screen comes up saying only subscribers can enter other nation space.
I don't really know the answer but as I said anything would be better then NO players online

Those suggestions about money for xp or faction are only one suggestion but at least it's outside of the status quo which isn't working.
Unless of course they are satisfied with the status quo then perhaps it's doing exactly what that want and expect.
I can't really say what thier expansion goals are if any.

I have no idea if the purchase of xp or faction would be good or bad but I can say that it works for many many many games out there

To suggest that a number of games were ruined that way without looking at the massive number of games thriving on this model is very short sited.

I don't believe it could make VO any less active or ruin VO.
Not much of anything could make VO less active I'm sorry to say.
At this point anything is better then nothing at all.

They keep trying direct sales and it's not about that.
It's the massive indirect sales that counts.
The exposure to the product even without playing it.
The exposure to the product of free players
The exposer exposure exposure everywhere.

After all this time I chat with people in games/clans/guilds/teams and NOONE has ever heard of VO

And they don't want to start playing a game that up front they know is a montly subscription. I know this is only psychological because they just told me in the free games they just spend $200 on virtual gold this month.

And pretty much all the clan members are forking out cash for the ability to increase xp quicker

Many of the games simply offer the game for free with the ability to purchase one month virtual money/credits/gold etc. and they use that to purchase other stuff including a 30 day subscription which gives you 25% 50% more xp and credits etc.

So I know the premium account / subscription for 30 days is the exact same thing but to them it's not it's just a way to get added benifit for 30 days.

Even one simply thing like offering the game for free, and only subscribers can increase xp/credits/faction

The problem will come in when you figure out what to do with them when their 30 days is up and they have higher levels of equipment that they earned as a subscriber.

Do they keep it and keep playing ?
And how to get more money coming in is the next topic

Thats why they offer other stuff like what about 1 billion credits = Trident or something

Or purchase 1 billion credits for $60 bucks or whatever they wand to charge
Or purchase other cap ships and/or special ships not available to normal subscribers.
Not really any better capability but just an elite ship only available for purchase

Also one thing VO doesn't have is any crew onboard and no way to increase crew capabilities which could add to the long work ahead for free players which will ad to their desire to purchase a subscription for earning higher levels of credits / or even crew skills and crew xp etc.

I know this is long but darn I just would like to see this thing take off after all this time.

I'll buzz around a little during the free holiday offer and see if I can find anyone but judging by the Deneb stats this tells me there is not much going on at least in Deneb.

Even 30 days free would be cool and also advertise in some of those work at home or paid to signup cheap advertising.

They will not likely subscribe but they will try it for 30 days and the indirect exposure will be very high

But to re focus this post I would ask the same question

How are they still in business with so few subscribers ?
Do you want more users or not ?

Perhaps I'm thinking they want more players and perhaps they do not.
If you don't really want any more players just tell me plainly and I'll stop making these stupid observations.

It's entirely possible that they are satisfied with the status quo and I'm simply makeing stupid suggestions thinking they actually want more player activity.
This would be most foolish of me and I guess I should not have assumed without asking the question. Do you want more player activity or not ?

WOW thats really a long post. Sorry people
I'm about finished on the player activity subject now so I'll give this up for a year or so and see how things go.

Thanks for reading

You could 'help' the playerbase 'problem' by...I don't know.....playing?

It's a little stupid to complain about something you don't like...and then contribute to exacerbating it. You're complaining that it's too hot and then putting on a winter coat. And apparently wondering why people are telling you to take off the coat.

You make so many assumptions here that it's not worth it to me to address them all. I have the benefit of the long-view of Guild's journey, having read all of Incarnate's posts over the years. Perhaps Guild's decisions make more sense to me because of that.

I'll say this: I've been a subscriber since it was possible to subscribe, and I deliberately subscribe at the maximum rate. I am pretty sure that there are others who do this as well. I do this because I like the game, I like the devs, and I like their independent way of thinking. I think they're doing an excellent job with what they have now, and have demonstrated a flexibility of thinking that will enable them to change course as they feel appropriate. One thing that I have heard Inc mention is that he wants to have the game more polished before he starts throwing money in for marketing and such. I think that's wise. The cash-for-advantage concept may come some day, I dunno, but I do know that there are startup and maintenance costs that may not be a wise investment at the moment.

Lastly, I play a number of MMOs. I don't mind subscribing on a monthly basis, but I do balk at being mined for cash in order to have any hope of staying competitive. I have no problem with being pwned by an opponent with superior skills, but it's not fun to be pwned by somebody who will spend top-dollar just to feel confident in some aspect of their life - even if it's only online.

Firstly, I don't think anyone who is advocating the pay for perks version of ftp is advocating anything that would give someone an advantage over someone who pays subscription. For instance, I personally don't have a reason or desire to spend the next year building a Trident. But I might buy one just for shits and giggles if it were offered. Now, this could be a one off deal where if the Trident is destroyed I have to buy a new one rather than anti up the meager 500,000 cr for the weekly replacement for those dedicated souls who actually did the leg work. Or it could be a type of rental. Frankly, I don't think the game is ready for player owned Tridents. (I never wanted them to begin with. I much prefer the single player ships and think that anything like a Trident should require multiple players just to pilot).

Anything done in this vein should merely serve to level the playing field so that non subscription players can compete with subscription players. The rest should be cosmetic.

I don't mind the lack of players so much as Captain86. Sure it would be nice to have a larger population and would change the game in ways that rp I've engaged in would actually become 'fun'.

What I want is for Guild to find a way to increase it's revenues to the point that it can grow it's staff and thereby focus on improving the game without having to answer to every distraction that comes along.

Now, as to lack of players, I think much could be done better with npc's to create an 'alive' feel to the game. I don't play as many games as others here, but I've taken the arrow to the knee for the last few months and have to say that a single player game like Skyrim does not leave me feeling the same vacancy I get in VO, while at the same time is diverse enough that I feel the same 'sandbox' atmosphere of not being trapped into a linear quest line. This has been discussed elsewhere though. I will say this though. When I enter a station sector and see the station swarmed by multiple convoys both arriving and departing, those moments bring VO to life for me. No longer am I delivering goods to a station with a population of 4, but suddenly tens of thousands or more. That I think is a key failure. By design, VO feels unpopulated.

-TerranAmbassador

Thanks for the psycho babble but it's not like that at all

It's more like this.
Putting on a coat because it's cold and telling others they should put their coats on because it's cold.
Then having others tell you it's not because of the cold but it's because you wearing a coat makes other people feel cold

So it's my fault there is no player activity.
Nice try but you got snake eyes on that one.
I don't think anyone else believes that either.
However, if that's true then I guess you get my point.
If me playing the game would help with it's success imagine what a lot of free players would do for VO

Oh but don't change anything to get new customers we wouldn't want to offend the 5 subscribers that are left.

Oh brother !
I'm just trying to make suggestions that are currently working in other successful game models. Not exactly but just some ideas.

Also responding to the subject of this post which is "How are you guys still in business? "

They will never go out of business as long as they have internet and a server running and the will to keep it running.

As I said success and making money vs being in business are 2 different things.

I know some don't like the idea of free player or options to buy things and may not subscribe again, but as the risk of getting 10 players that will who cares.

I understand dedication to the current customer base but honestly the current base it holding VO back and the emotional attachment to them.

Like it or not following a successful model or at least some aspects of them could not hurt and current subscribers should be willing stand behind this for the good of the game if you are indeed dedicated to all that some have stated.

But the minute there is talk about something you don't like your out and stated you are ready to kick VO to the side at the first hint of change.

I don't care if they change programming with whatever they want to program that they think is cool.

I just want to see some players and I know how to do it, and see how other games are doing it by the 10's of thousands.
The money follows the trend / crowd even if only a small percent of those are paying customers.

For me it's just about enjoying the game with a bunch of other players and that option is not available to me at the moment unfortunately.

Perhaps the pool of ideas for the New Year will see some increase in player activity I hope

Captain86; even if you are correct in your intuition, the way you are framing your argument with hyperbole and emotional appeal weakens your position. I think you are grossly underestimating the number of people that play VO. By your own admission you have not played in some time; there are vastly more subscribers than your argument suggests you think there are. Only a fraction of the population participates in the Deneb War which, to my knowledge, is what you are basing your assumptions on.

I don't think any sort of psychological trick of marketing will hold players over the long term. It's going to take depth, creativity, and a lot of work. Like Whistler, I've had a subscription since it was possible to subscribe. I've watched Vendetta go through some drastic changes and take risks no-one else in the industry has so far been willing to take, seemingly. The depth and the creativity are there.

Some of the games you mention follow the pattern of gaining a drastic spike in player activity before rapidly falling off and reaching a very low equilibrium. I suspect Vendetta is showing an opposite trend of gradually increasing in activity over a long period of time. TerranAmbassador's comment points to the fact that you can either help this process by participating, or pretend to have the answers while standing aloof. I can't tell you what to do, but I think it's obvious which one I see as a better course of action if you are interested in VO over the long term. The recent project myself and others have published should be a testament to the impact players can have on the fabric of VO's story.

Hi. I'm very busy doing stuff to.. improve and increase the player base of the game, so I haven't been responding to threads lately.

Death Fluffy makes the very valid point that could and should do more with NPCs to give life to the universe. I'm acutely aware of this, and we've occasionally taken a stab at the issue in the last couple of years, but to date it's still pretty poor. This isn't a huge problem to solve, but it requires greater recurring focus on my part, to check that the requested change is actually doing what is needed.

Captain86 has a lot of different concerns. The best I can say is "we aren't sitting still". It should become obvious in the next month. There is no magic bullet to increase users, it is likely that the free-to-play games you refer to have yearly marketing budgets that exceed the sum-total marketing expenditures of Vendetta Online over our entire lifetime. Free to play has some strong benefits, and also tradeoffs, which are a bit beyond my time for writing at present.

Again.. we are not standing still. I am careful about the timing of our announcements, as it is practically the only marketing clout we have.

This seems like the same discussion we were having in 2006. I wonder if this subject just come up every few months.

I respect Inc and sometimes just sign up for a subscription to support Guild. It is a great game right now. I don't play because it is lonely. In the past I've spent hours in space and didn't see anyone. I know I can chat on 100 but that was dead too. Toward the end of my subscription, years ago, I spent a lot time on irc just chatting. It didn't matter because when in the game I rarely left the station. I couldn't find anything I wanted to do.

I know some people argued that "if you want more people in game, don't leave." Well this is not a job but a game. When it is no longer fun we quit. But during this free play period I didn't explore the changes at all. Since I have time on my hands now I might sign up for a subscription.

PS. I'm just giving you my humble opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone else.

Part of the issue is that of not having enough recurring content to gather people together at specific times. Improvements to the Event system are another of my projects (as long-suffering PCC members will know), something I was hoping to have ready for this past holiday season, but which had to be shelved due to lack of time.

That said, when I was playing on an alt in early December (mostly screenshots, footage and other stuff), I was running into people all the time. I imagine it ebbs and flows.

Anyway, I am already doing everything I can, as will soon become apparent. So, I don't have much to add right now. Glad people are stopping by to check things out and say "hi", regardless of whether they re-sub :).