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First off, I realize our trash talk got a little heated so I want to start off by apologizing if I said anything to offend you.
Now, here is the video I promised to post. I want to use this to illustrate a point. I've said many times before that effective energy weapons range is inside 150m. This is why. Those of you that sit at 250-400, praying for a hit, will only find boring fights such as this one. This is not distance control, this is staying out of range. At a few points, you can see I even stop firing because it becomes an exercise in futility. I even charge in at full throttle at a few points (which is generally not a good idea) just to recklessly try and close the distance, but you can see my target drop out of range before I can get much inside 200.
As you can see, my FA is on for about 95% of this fight. This means I have forward momentum for about 95% of the fight. The only way we could not close distance is if my target is reversing. I FA off and reverse near the end so we can chat a bit. I've made an edit there for time (at about 4:00), but all that is cut out is our little chat. I left the rest unedited and sped it up to 4x speed (the whole fight is a whopping 16 minutes at regular speed largely due to the range) rather than cut it down so that you can see I'm not editing any convenient parts out. If you really want to see it, I can post the regular speed version.
Dropping outside 150m in an energy dogfight is fine. It's a great defensive move when your enemy has the drop on you. But trying to hit your target from anything outside that distance is relying heavily on you getting a lucky shot or your enemy slipping up. Both ships are out of range.
Less than 150m is ideal, 200m is right on the border, 250-400m is lucky shot territory and over 400m is "I'm shooting at nothing" territory. It makes for a long and boring fight. Footballprophet is not the only one who does this, so I don't mean to pick on him. But, the moral of the story is if you want to hit your target with energy weapons, you need to get close. Not only will you not have a 16 minute fight, but you'll find it's a hell of a lot more fun.
http://youtu.be/kBeYGeZyxUk
Now, here is the video I promised to post. I want to use this to illustrate a point. I've said many times before that effective energy weapons range is inside 150m. This is why. Those of you that sit at 250-400, praying for a hit, will only find boring fights such as this one. This is not distance control, this is staying out of range. At a few points, you can see I even stop firing because it becomes an exercise in futility. I even charge in at full throttle at a few points (which is generally not a good idea) just to recklessly try and close the distance, but you can see my target drop out of range before I can get much inside 200.
As you can see, my FA is on for about 95% of this fight. This means I have forward momentum for about 95% of the fight. The only way we could not close distance is if my target is reversing. I FA off and reverse near the end so we can chat a bit. I've made an edit there for time (at about 4:00), but all that is cut out is our little chat. I left the rest unedited and sped it up to 4x speed (the whole fight is a whopping 16 minutes at regular speed largely due to the range) rather than cut it down so that you can see I'm not editing any convenient parts out. If you really want to see it, I can post the regular speed version.
Dropping outside 150m in an energy dogfight is fine. It's a great defensive move when your enemy has the drop on you. But trying to hit your target from anything outside that distance is relying heavily on you getting a lucky shot or your enemy slipping up. Both ships are out of range.
Less than 150m is ideal, 200m is right on the border, 250-400m is lucky shot territory and over 400m is "I'm shooting at nothing" territory. It makes for a long and boring fight. Footballprophet is not the only one who does this, so I don't mean to pick on him. But, the moral of the story is if you want to hit your target with energy weapons, you need to get close. Not only will you not have a 16 minute fight, but you'll find it's a hell of a lot more fun.
http://youtu.be/kBeYGeZyxUk
lulz.. no offense taken... You shoulda posted when your SVG's were getting eaten like cookies... so if I recorded those I would title that a tutorial in getting your arse kicked "for Ghost", and you could rename this "I cried so much I had to wipe my face with a diaper"
Footballprophet.
Footballprophet.
Yeah, I completely agree Ghost. Why even bother fighting at all if you're just going to stay back where nobody lands a hit? This is a game. If you want to fight somebody, fight him, don't make vaguely aggressive poses from a distance.
Absolutely, Ghost. None of the best and most memorable fights (both wins and losses) I've had in Vendetta have been long, drawn out energy fights at 200m+.
Oh, I want to see the 16 minute version.
This is why Timed Fight was created.
Well, so much for my trying to be nice.
@football: If we must bring egos into this, at least tell the whole story. The fights you speak of, you were in a valk, I was in a SVG. If you don't beat a SVG in a valk there's either something wrong with you or the other pilot is significantly outflying you. I'll be happy to valk duel you if you can have a fight in less than 16 minutes next time.
The other times we were in even ships (SCPs) I beat you 2 out of 3 times. The 3rd time you suicided on my explosion.
@football: If we must bring egos into this, at least tell the whole story. The fights you speak of, you were in a valk, I was in a SVG. If you don't beat a SVG in a valk there's either something wrong with you or the other pilot is significantly outflying you. I'll be happy to valk duel you if you can have a fight in less than 16 minutes next time.
The other times we were in even ships (SCPs) I beat you 2 out of 3 times. The 3rd time you suicided on my explosion.
@Ghost: I have killed you in fights under all your chars.... the last time under ghost you were saying in sector chat over and over about how rusty you where.. so I guess you not used to exploding it seems and then the excuses come out, and those didnt take 16 minutes did they mate? No vid on those those right mate? So just because I used greater distance in this fight, dont generalize my whole style.
Im not apologizing for that fight as I enjoyed it and did well early. Your just sad about the three before that. Maalik has picked me apart from distance in his vult, I didnt cry. He didnt want to be flared and thus he won.
Vults are probably the best ships in the game in the right hands. Maalik and Nahin are testament to that. So whatever dude... and if I make a youtube video of any of my fights because im upset, I will place a dunce hat on my head.
Your a good guy Ghost, dont resort to this stuff.
Im not apologizing for that fight as I enjoyed it and did well early. Your just sad about the three before that. Maalik has picked me apart from distance in his vult, I didnt cry. He didnt want to be flared and thus he won.
Vults are probably the best ships in the game in the right hands. Maalik and Nahin are testament to that. So whatever dude... and if I make a youtube video of any of my fights because im upset, I will place a dunce hat on my head.
Your a good guy Ghost, dont resort to this stuff.
Both of those people never come into weapons range lol
I am far from an expert in VO combat, but as someone who has trained extensively in other combat disciplines, there are a few tips I always gave to my students. One of them is to play your game. If he is reacting to you, he is not pressing his game. It is also wise to play cautiously against a skilled opponent. Boring, perhaps, but nothing says a fight has to be over in 2 minutes....or 4 minutes....or even 10.
There is a difference between backrolling, and keeping distance. Watching the video, even though you had FA on, I noticed a number of times that throttle was at 0 or very low. So it's not entirely accurate to state that you had consistent forward momentum.
There is a difference between backrolling, and keeping distance. Watching the video, even though you had FA on, I noticed a number of times that throttle was at 0 or very low. So it's not entirely accurate to state that you had consistent forward momentum.
If someone is being absurd in their distance from me I make it a point to run from them at my leisure. It's the only way people learn that unless you keep on top of your opponent you're not going to earn the kill.
If you can't catch me, you don't deserve the kill. Whine about running all you like, but its a simple solution.
If you can't catch me, you don't deserve the kill. Whine about running all you like, but its a simple solution.
@Football: I have no problem dying. I get killed all the time and I'll be the first to tell you I'm far from the best at this game. Hell, people kill me all the time nowadays.
You keep making this about you beating me, and yes you have killed me before. This is not a "Ghost is superior to Footballprophet" thread. If you read my original post (the title gives you a big hint what the post is about too) it's got nothing to do with me being upset about dying. I didn't post this video to gloat, so chill out. I even started by apologizing to you. I posted this to prove a point. If you remember, this whole thing came about because you didn't believe me when I said I left FA on for the fight. Your response was, "That's impossible." And you had basically accused me of lying about it. I wanted you to see how "impossible" it is. Here:
[05/25/12 19:00:45] <E r e b u s> going to need to get a little closer
[05/25/12 19:00:57] <Footballprophet> ye have to do ye part mate.
[05/25/12 19:01:00] <E r e b u s> i have FA on
[05/25/12 19:01:03] <E r e b u s> this whole time
[05/25/12 19:01:07] <Footballprophet> impossible
[05/25/12 19:01:12] <E r e b u s> ill fraps it for you
Pretty simple really, but you seem set on attacking me for some reason. If it will make you feel better, I'll make a separate thread for you called, "Football Prophet Has Beaten Me On Occasion" and you can attack my ego in there. Or I'll just announce it right now, "Football Prophet Has Beaten Me Before!" /trumpetfanfare. Do you feel better now? Can we get back to the topic?
I'm trying to make a point about weapons range and boring fights which have spread like the plague in this game. Because regardless of who won that fight, it was boring as hell. So if you'd like to comment on the topic, I'd love to hear your explanation as to why it's a good idea to fight from 400m unless you're buying time to wait for help, running away or using rails.
"Vults are probably the best ships in the game in the right hands."
That's just silly.
You keep making this about you beating me, and yes you have killed me before. This is not a "Ghost is superior to Footballprophet" thread. If you read my original post (the title gives you a big hint what the post is about too) it's got nothing to do with me being upset about dying. I didn't post this video to gloat, so chill out. I even started by apologizing to you. I posted this to prove a point. If you remember, this whole thing came about because you didn't believe me when I said I left FA on for the fight. Your response was, "That's impossible." And you had basically accused me of lying about it. I wanted you to see how "impossible" it is. Here:
[05/25/12 19:00:45] <E r e b u s> going to need to get a little closer
[05/25/12 19:00:57] <Footballprophet> ye have to do ye part mate.
[05/25/12 19:01:00] <E r e b u s> i have FA on
[05/25/12 19:01:03] <E r e b u s> this whole time
[05/25/12 19:01:07] <Footballprophet> impossible
[05/25/12 19:01:12] <E r e b u s> ill fraps it for you
Pretty simple really, but you seem set on attacking me for some reason. If it will make you feel better, I'll make a separate thread for you called, "Football Prophet Has Beaten Me On Occasion" and you can attack my ego in there. Or I'll just announce it right now, "Football Prophet Has Beaten Me Before!" /trumpetfanfare. Do you feel better now? Can we get back to the topic?
I'm trying to make a point about weapons range and boring fights which have spread like the plague in this game. Because regardless of who won that fight, it was boring as hell. So if you'd like to comment on the topic, I'd love to hear your explanation as to why it's a good idea to fight from 400m unless you're buying time to wait for help, running away or using rails.
"Vults are probably the best ships in the game in the right hands."
That's just silly.
This whole thread smacks of too much effort. Ghost's various videos have been up since the Dawn of Man. If footballprophet has a different flight style, so be it. Who really cares? If it's not fun dueling another style, just don't (or adapt) and only bother shooting them in furballs.
see, we can all get on with life, can't we?
see, we can all get on with life, can't we?
ghost don't bother with prophet seriously.
also nice to see you back hope to see you on the flipside.
also nice to see you back hope to see you on the flipside.
What DivisionByZero said.
Also this thread is hopeless prima facie. Nothing is going to change here. Oh, the video was amusing though, especially music choice.
Also this thread is hopeless prima facie. Nothing is going to change here. Oh, the video was amusing though, especially music choice.
Interestingly, I also had a number of fights against FBP (Theoretically, Vulturious CAN win, but Valk with flares is still a favorite).
But I didn't find distance to be the issue. You have to pull an Eldrad power-strafe. It's the only way he can't maintain distance.
No... distance was not the problem... being complete and utter flarebait? yeah that was an issue.
But I didn't find distance to be the issue. You have to pull an Eldrad power-strafe. It's the only way he can't maintain distance.
No... distance was not the problem... being complete and utter flarebait? yeah that was an issue.
and what about A/A being OFF during video?
Does that improve aiming when enemy is erratically moving, or was simply forgotten?
Does that improve aiming when enemy is erratically moving, or was simply forgotten?
we have a running scrapbook of FAMY's keeping their distance... namely in the form of running when their armor gets too low or when they are losing. While I think we all understand your post, Ghosts, we also understand FBP and others aren't going to change their combat style.
I've never gone one on one in a dual before and I'm curious; does a spinning back-roll work against another sentient pilot like it does against a bot? I would imagine a good opponent would wipe the floor with you if such a tactic was used.
It works for making it hard for people to hit you, but it also makes it hard for you to hit them since you're at a distance as well, and they are not bots so they'll dodge your shots. It also makes you predictable, which is especially dangerous when the opponent has flares. If you want to avoid being hit by backing up, you're better off not doing it via predictable spirals. Use random strafes and arcs instead.
Basically, distance draws out a fight and makes it more about aim, dodging, and weapon velocity. Proximity shortens the fight and makes it more about maneuvering, timing, and weapon AA. The middle ground is a blend.
I don't think anybody is trying to say that we shouldn't be able to back away during fights. I think the idea was to just point out that when people do that, they're being boring. If people want to be boring, they are free to do so.
Basically, distance draws out a fight and makes it more about aim, dodging, and weapon velocity. Proximity shortens the fight and makes it more about maneuvering, timing, and weapon AA. The middle ground is a blend.
I don't think anybody is trying to say that we shouldn't be able to back away during fights. I think the idea was to just point out that when people do that, they're being boring. If people want to be boring, they are free to do so.