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Pak... my bad. Though perhaps the Devs might have the wiki fixed or at least give editing powers someone who will not post blatantly untrue things.
Ryan, VO-wiki is a community project... Guild's Devs are not in charge there.
And the existing KoS is not like ban someone. Notice a Itani Pilot who is Itani KoS remains as Itani for everyone's IFF/radars. Someone banned would appear as "Nationless" or "Dregs" or even 'unaligned"...
So, from your smart post, we have all the tools in place, we just need to effectively remove the nationality tag from traitors.
And the existing KoS is not like ban someone. Notice a Itani Pilot who is Itani KoS remains as Itani for everyone's IFF/radars. Someone banned would appear as "Nationless" or "Dregs" or even 'unaligned"...
So, from your smart post, we have all the tools in place, we just need to effectively remove the nationality tag from traitors.
KoS people appear as "Kill on sight". Anybody who sees "Kill on sight" and reads "Valued member of our community!" is an idiot.
They are very actively attempted to be killed if they try to enter that nation's space, or even cross paths with a convoy outside of it. Anybody who sees this and concludes that the person is being welcomed with open arms is an idiot.
So yes, they are banned. I admit that the ban is currently too easy to have removed, but that isn't what is being argued here.
Yes, the person's name still shows up Blue/Red/Yellow. Do not interpret that as an allegiance because it obviously is not. It is heritage. They were born an Itani. They may have turned against their nation and allied with the Serco, but they were still born an Itani. Currently, that is what the colors represent. Since we have faction levels, you should obviously pay more attention to those than to the color of somebody's name.
Also, and I may be wrong here because I haven't used the game's built-in IFF in a while, but I'm pretty sure that hated and kos people show up as a red dot, even when they are of the same nation.
They are very actively attempted to be killed if they try to enter that nation's space, or even cross paths with a convoy outside of it. Anybody who sees this and concludes that the person is being welcomed with open arms is an idiot.
So yes, they are banned. I admit that the ban is currently too easy to have removed, but that isn't what is being argued here.
Yes, the person's name still shows up Blue/Red/Yellow. Do not interpret that as an allegiance because it obviously is not. It is heritage. They were born an Itani. They may have turned against their nation and allied with the Serco, but they were still born an Itani. Currently, that is what the colors represent. Since we have faction levels, you should obviously pay more attention to those than to the color of somebody's name.
Also, and I may be wrong here because I haven't used the game's built-in IFF in a while, but I'm pretty sure that hated and kos people show up as a red dot, even when they are of the same nation.
Or a newbie, without Makefriends plugin... After so many years in VO, maybe you're so used to ignore nationality that consider it normal, but for most newbies that is freaky, almost unbeliveable... someone in his own team is attacking him without reason. In VO tutorials they never mention pirates... How many times you saw newbies complaining "someone from my own team shot me" on /100?
Also, the standing of other pilots is NOT clearly visible without plugins...
And I am quite sure that when a russian plane defeated to USA, one of first things they did was revoke his transponder code (IFF), so any other russian plane would consider it hostile, non-russian... that russian pilot would not be able fly around pretending to be a russian plane on russian service...
Back to OP:
Other than level or faction we have:
-Specialization: Military gear requires military ranks. Mining beams requires mining training complete. Almost as now, but with one specific "mission" for training or certification.
-Service: Access to special items can be tied to service done. Example: complete this mission and you get this item during 1 week, limited stockpile. Like N3.
-Achievement: Complete this and you get it. Megaposis.
-Manufacturing/Buff: Basic items are sold, better items must be "produced".
-Price: Simply make prices varies a lot more, exponentially.
Also, the standing of other pilots is NOT clearly visible without plugins...
And I am quite sure that when a russian plane defeated to USA, one of first things they did was revoke his transponder code (IFF), so any other russian plane would consider it hostile, non-russian... that russian pilot would not be able fly around pretending to be a russian plane on russian service...
Back to OP:
Other than level or faction we have:
-Specialization: Military gear requires military ranks. Mining beams requires mining training complete. Almost as now, but with one specific "mission" for training or certification.
-Service: Access to special items can be tied to service done. Example: complete this mission and you get this item during 1 week, limited stockpile. Like N3.
-Achievement: Complete this and you get it. Megaposis.
-Manufacturing/Buff: Basic items are sold, better items must be "produced".
-Price: Simply make prices varies a lot more, exponentially.
"In VO tutorials they never mention pirates..."
Fix the actual problem, not the symptoms. Newbies are ignorant? Modify the tutorials and early missions to help inform them.
"Also, the standing of other pilots is NOT clearly visible without plugins..."
Target them and press the "k" key. I did this all the time before I installed targetless. Not only does it show me their factions, but it lets me see their kill counts and badges and such, which helps me gauge their experience and how likely they are to attack me. Somebody with four player kills probably is not a threat. Somebody with five thousand should be given a wide berth until you know whether they are friendly.
Also, this is another instance of "fix the actual problem, not the symptoms". We should not add a new faction simply because the default UI is useless at providing situational awareness. Fix the UI, so that the newbie doesn't have to screw around with pressing k unless he wants a more detailed view.
And, as I said above, I believe that the game already flags people who are KoS as hostile, giving them the scary red dot on the radar, without you having to look at their standings. If it doesn't, then it definitely should, and we should fix the problem, not the symptom.
Oh, and that goes for your comment about the Russian pilot as well. We already do this - turrets fire at him, strike force chases him, anybody who bothers to check his faction sees that he is marked kill on sight, and as far as I know, he shows up red in the radar.
He might still be colored like a Russian (or a Serco), but he is very obviously an enemy.
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PaKettle, I apologize for arguing with Alloh in your thread. I will cease now.
Fix the actual problem, not the symptoms. Newbies are ignorant? Modify the tutorials and early missions to help inform them.
"Also, the standing of other pilots is NOT clearly visible without plugins..."
Target them and press the "k" key. I did this all the time before I installed targetless. Not only does it show me their factions, but it lets me see their kill counts and badges and such, which helps me gauge their experience and how likely they are to attack me. Somebody with four player kills probably is not a threat. Somebody with five thousand should be given a wide berth until you know whether they are friendly.
Also, this is another instance of "fix the actual problem, not the symptoms". We should not add a new faction simply because the default UI is useless at providing situational awareness. Fix the UI, so that the newbie doesn't have to screw around with pressing k unless he wants a more detailed view.
And, as I said above, I believe that the game already flags people who are KoS as hostile, giving them the scary red dot on the radar, without you having to look at their standings. If it doesn't, then it definitely should, and we should fix the problem, not the symptom.
Oh, and that goes for your comment about the Russian pilot as well. We already do this - turrets fire at him, strike force chases him, anybody who bothers to check his faction sees that he is marked kill on sight, and as far as I know, he shows up red in the radar.
He might still be colored like a Russian (or a Serco), but he is very obviously an enemy.
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PaKettle, I apologize for arguing with Alloh in your thread. I will cease now.
Thread derails are common and discussions of this type tend to drift in any event. - no real foul.
So any other ideas We can toss around some?
So any other ideas We can toss around some?
Things that the game could consider:
How much repair work you have done.
How much stuff you have stolen (defined as loot that was dropped from a ship's cargo hold when it exploded, and subsequently picked up by your own ship within a timeframe and either sold or deposited in a station).
How much stuff you have salvaged (defined as the drops that ships have, picked up within a certain timeframe of the ship being destroyed, and subsequently stored or sold at a station).
How many bounties you have caught.
How well you have done at the race tracks.
How many individual sectors of the universe you have visited.
How many individual asteroids you have scanned.
How many stations you have captured.
How much time you have spent mining inside an ion storm.
How many ships you have killed inside an ion storm.
How many hive bots you have killed.
How many levis you have killed.
Not all of those would necessarily be useful, but maybe that list can inspire somebody to come up with good ideas.
How much repair work you have done.
How much stuff you have stolen (defined as loot that was dropped from a ship's cargo hold when it exploded, and subsequently picked up by your own ship within a timeframe and either sold or deposited in a station).
How much stuff you have salvaged (defined as the drops that ships have, picked up within a certain timeframe of the ship being destroyed, and subsequently stored or sold at a station).
How many bounties you have caught.
How well you have done at the race tracks.
How many individual sectors of the universe you have visited.
How many individual asteroids you have scanned.
How many stations you have captured.
How much time you have spent mining inside an ion storm.
How many ships you have killed inside an ion storm.
How many hive bots you have killed.
How many levis you have killed.
Not all of those would necessarily be useful, but maybe that list can inspire somebody to come up with good ideas.
All very good ideas -
The higher rep guns should be accessed by the amount of reps done rather then simple leveling but I think total damage repped might be easier to track.
Stolen goods is hard to define I think from a programming view. I dont think they tie drops back to thier origin. They could add a referance but then the game would have to also remember the dead ship for a time. Once the drop is picked up it isnt too hard to mark it as stolen but then what if you have legit and stolen items together?
Salvage on the other hand is fairly straight forward and I think was suggested as a badge. Scrap collector is also a well defined job description but are there ships/equipment that could be usefull to a scrap collector?
Same goes for explorers/cartographers - What would be the reward/access for it?
Racer I am thinking might be used for access to an ultra light ship and weapons
The higher rep guns should be accessed by the amount of reps done rather then simple leveling but I think total damage repped might be easier to track.
Stolen goods is hard to define I think from a programming view. I dont think they tie drops back to thier origin. They could add a referance but then the game would have to also remember the dead ship for a time. Once the drop is picked up it isnt too hard to mark it as stolen but then what if you have legit and stolen items together?
Salvage on the other hand is fairly straight forward and I think was suggested as a badge. Scrap collector is also a well defined job description but are there ships/equipment that could be usefull to a scrap collector?
Same goes for explorers/cartographers - What would be the reward/access for it?
Racer I am thinking might be used for access to an ultra light ship and weapons
Missions can also have prerequisites.
All those proposed seems to me simply more specialization.
-Do action X to reach a better tool for doing X. Do much more X to get better tools for X'ing...
Bringing to RL, we should have certifications for using this or that equipament CLASS. Example: for using mining beams, one must take the training first or directly the certification. In this mission you simply must equip one beam of each and mine 4 different common ores. Then you get mining badge, or license. Same for ships classes. Transports Light and Heavy, Fighters, bombers, assaults... simple certification missions, almost like TPG Test Pilot.
Recap of other options I'd like, beyond faction standing and XP:
-Military grade equipament, restrict only to those actively participating of military actions. Includes UIT's defense forces.
-Faction-exclusive gear. Indeed, most ships and weapon should be nation-exclusive. They can be exactly the same but the name, as Itani UberPositron, UIT Megapositrons and Serco Ultrapositrons. Stats are the same, or almost, but names change. Exception for UIT-produced items, sold everywhere, branded with corp's name, as TPG Megapositrons or Axia AccelPosis.
-More unarmed ships, like XC, and unarmed roles. Freighters, Miners, Rescuers... carring no guns, only utility ports. Different requirements for unarmed ships, multirole versions and combat ships.
-Do action X to reach a better tool for doing X. Do much more X to get better tools for X'ing...
Bringing to RL, we should have certifications for using this or that equipament CLASS. Example: for using mining beams, one must take the training first or directly the certification. In this mission you simply must equip one beam of each and mine 4 different common ores. Then you get mining badge, or license. Same for ships classes. Transports Light and Heavy, Fighters, bombers, assaults... simple certification missions, almost like TPG Test Pilot.
Recap of other options I'd like, beyond faction standing and XP:
-Military grade equipament, restrict only to those actively participating of military actions. Includes UIT's defense forces.
-Faction-exclusive gear. Indeed, most ships and weapon should be nation-exclusive. They can be exactly the same but the name, as Itani UberPositron, UIT Megapositrons and Serco Ultrapositrons. Stats are the same, or almost, but names change. Exception for UIT-produced items, sold everywhere, branded with corp's name, as TPG Megapositrons or Axia AccelPosis.
-More unarmed ships, like XC, and unarmed roles. Freighters, Miners, Rescuers... carring no guns, only utility ports. Different requirements for unarmed ships, multirole versions and combat ships.