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Where is the multiplayer? Observations from a newb
Dear boards,
I purchased a month subscription a week ago and have had good fun flying around VO. I got to somewhat decent license levels (4/4/3 I think) and feel comfortable flying around the universe including greyspace. If I go on hive missions or get PvP'ed I stand very little chance. I used to play Elite and UIM quite a bit "back in the day".
So far, I really miss two key elements: (1) that I expected from Elite, and (2) that I expected from the MMORPG nature
1) is the seeming non-importance of cash. I've never flown a regular trade or mining mission and done a couple of convoy missions without any risk more than two guardian bots in an ion storm. I now have >1 million credit in the bank and the most expensive things I can buy are around 50k credits. In other words: without even trying I've become so rich that money is not a factor. This makes it totally silly for me to try mining or trading: if money is free, why work hard to earn it?
2) is the lack of real player interaction so far. I see other people on 100 talking away, and I've been blown out of the water by a PC once. I almost never see a PC in a system. Are all the cool kids hanging out somewhere else? Also: what I would have expected is for missions where you play with our against other PC's instead of bots, for example convoy missions where other PC's are guarding and/or attacking the convoy. Obviuosly, such missions cannot be launched every five minutes, but it would really add to the depth and unpredictability of the game. Maybe such missions exist but I haven't seen them yet? Maybe they don't happen in UIT space?
Another thing that bothers me is the boringness of the initial part of the game. Getting to level +/- 3, including the mandatory training sessions, was good for my first character. However, now it is a threshold for starting a second character as an Itani or Serco, as I would like to explore that part of the game but I really don't feel like going through obligatory silly missions again. Maybe have some "accelerated start" option for accounts with a high level character, ie start at 2/2/2 or something like that?
All the above are, as the title states, observations from a new player, and it could well be that I'm doing something wrong or just missing out on certain aspects of the game. Or that I should be more patient, and that the really cool missions will come when I reach 5/5/5. However, if the month ends before I've seen more gameplay and interaction depth, I'm not sure I will renew my account.
From these observations, I would humbly make some suggestions to the creators:
- smaller universe. I think the # of systems should depend on the # of active players. Make an in-game event like the closing and opening of a wormhole to represent the dynamic size of the universe. A player in a 'lost' part of a universe would get fair warning, and if the ignore that (eg are AFK for too long) they might get a special mission that would create a new wormhole just for them.
- multiplayer missions. As above, start missions on select worlds at given times that are inherently or occasionally multiplayer, collaborative and/or competitive.
- higher prices. I think all equipment should cost a factor 10 more, and convoy missions that don't cross greyspace or faction boundaries should give no more than +/- 50.000 credits. This could make trading/mining more interesting. Repairing and rebuying should probably not become much more expensive, as that would put too high a premium on staying alive, which would be boring. Maybe some kind of 'insurance policy' like the escape pod in Elite?
Apologies if the above is obvious or stated already, but I couldn't really find it on the forums, and I wanted to post my newb comments before I get used the game too much to notice them.
-- wva
I purchased a month subscription a week ago and have had good fun flying around VO. I got to somewhat decent license levels (4/4/3 I think) and feel comfortable flying around the universe including greyspace. If I go on hive missions or get PvP'ed I stand very little chance. I used to play Elite and UIM quite a bit "back in the day".
So far, I really miss two key elements: (1) that I expected from Elite, and (2) that I expected from the MMORPG nature
1) is the seeming non-importance of cash. I've never flown a regular trade or mining mission and done a couple of convoy missions without any risk more than two guardian bots in an ion storm. I now have >1 million credit in the bank and the most expensive things I can buy are around 50k credits. In other words: without even trying I've become so rich that money is not a factor. This makes it totally silly for me to try mining or trading: if money is free, why work hard to earn it?
2) is the lack of real player interaction so far. I see other people on 100 talking away, and I've been blown out of the water by a PC once. I almost never see a PC in a system. Are all the cool kids hanging out somewhere else? Also: what I would have expected is for missions where you play with our against other PC's instead of bots, for example convoy missions where other PC's are guarding and/or attacking the convoy. Obviuosly, such missions cannot be launched every five minutes, but it would really add to the depth and unpredictability of the game. Maybe such missions exist but I haven't seen them yet? Maybe they don't happen in UIT space?
Another thing that bothers me is the boringness of the initial part of the game. Getting to level +/- 3, including the mandatory training sessions, was good for my first character. However, now it is a threshold for starting a second character as an Itani or Serco, as I would like to explore that part of the game but I really don't feel like going through obligatory silly missions again. Maybe have some "accelerated start" option for accounts with a high level character, ie start at 2/2/2 or something like that?
All the above are, as the title states, observations from a new player, and it could well be that I'm doing something wrong or just missing out on certain aspects of the game. Or that I should be more patient, and that the really cool missions will come when I reach 5/5/5. However, if the month ends before I've seen more gameplay and interaction depth, I'm not sure I will renew my account.
From these observations, I would humbly make some suggestions to the creators:
- smaller universe. I think the # of systems should depend on the # of active players. Make an in-game event like the closing and opening of a wormhole to represent the dynamic size of the universe. A player in a 'lost' part of a universe would get fair warning, and if the ignore that (eg are AFK for too long) they might get a special mission that would create a new wormhole just for them.
- multiplayer missions. As above, start missions on select worlds at given times that are inherently or occasionally multiplayer, collaborative and/or competitive.
- higher prices. I think all equipment should cost a factor 10 more, and convoy missions that don't cross greyspace or faction boundaries should give no more than +/- 50.000 credits. This could make trading/mining more interesting. Repairing and rebuying should probably not become much more expensive, as that would put too high a premium on staying alive, which would be boring. Maybe some kind of 'insurance policy' like the escape pod in Elite?
Apologies if the above is obvious or stated already, but I couldn't really find it on the forums, and I wanted to post my newb comments before I get used the game too much to notice them.
-- wva
1) Million bucks is nothing, I burned through 10 mil in cash in my campaign to wake up my nation and mobilize them back into combat. Corvus greyhound cost 100k, the uber mine reloads cost 1mil so you'll find ways to lose that mil if you wander off into gray
2) Go to gray space, newb/nation territory is rather...safe and empty especially if you are deep in itani space cause no one likes to go there so you'll see people in gray. You could also do the border skirmish missions in Deneb, become pals with someone on 100 and do escort, hive or BS together or even buy an atlas and hire/be a gunner.
2) Go to gray space, newb/nation territory is rather...safe and empty especially if you are deep in itani space cause no one likes to go there so you'll see people in gray. You could also do the border skirmish missions in Deneb, become pals with someone on 100 and do escort, hive or BS together or even buy an atlas and hire/be a gunner.
1) Welcome to VO
2) Welcome to VO
2) Welcome to VO
Welcome to VO:)
No thanks to the thought about a smaller 'verse, but I fully agree with your other two thoughts. Alas, they have been suggested time and time again and I am sure the devs are working on implementing stuff that will help soon(TM).
If you have excess cash, go to grey space and ask for some pvp players to come and have fun. I can almost guarantee that you burn through that cash pretty fast.
No thanks to the thought about a smaller 'verse, but I fully agree with your other two thoughts. Alas, they have been suggested time and time again and I am sure the devs are working on implementing stuff that will help soon(TM).
If you have excess cash, go to grey space and ask for some pvp players to come and have fun. I can almost guarantee that you burn through that cash pretty fast.
Even faster if you've had a little too much tequila...
Welcome aboard and thanks for the detailed impressions! :D
Welcome aboard and thanks for the detailed impressions! :D
Hello vanatteveldt. Thanks for the impressions, hope you enjoy your stay.
1)Right now, money is sort of a non-factor most of the time. But if you can find it, the funnest activities can burn millions in seemingly no time (Buying back new ships during a pvp furball, 30million and 300million purchases in greyspace, defending/attacking a conquearable station, or even losing a Behemoth XC (150,000+who knows how much your cargo was worth) or two to bots in an ion storm. :)
2)Most players hang out, as has been stated before, in greyspace. That's where the action is. Sedina B-8 is a hotspot for pvp action (and if you ask nicely someone might tutor you in PVP.) Ask around for guilds that might be running events, to see if you can join in (but beware the pirates' "newby welcoming party" :P ).
Also, with combat 4 you should be able to join up with either the itani or serco military (Your character is UIT, right? if not, just join the military of your own nation). Go for the serco one, much shorter migration from the front-line battle back to home... that opens up a bunch of fleet-battle missions with capships and stuff.
1)Right now, money is sort of a non-factor most of the time. But if you can find it, the funnest activities can burn millions in seemingly no time (Buying back new ships during a pvp furball, 30million and 300million purchases in greyspace, defending/attacking a conquearable station, or even losing a Behemoth XC (150,000+who knows how much your cargo was worth) or two to bots in an ion storm. :)
2)Most players hang out, as has been stated before, in greyspace. That's where the action is. Sedina B-8 is a hotspot for pvp action (and if you ask nicely someone might tutor you in PVP.) Ask around for guilds that might be running events, to see if you can join in (but beware the pirates' "newby welcoming party" :P ).
Also, with combat 4 you should be able to join up with either the itani or serco military (Your character is UIT, right? if not, just join the military of your own nation). Go for the serco one, much shorter migration from the front-line battle back to home... that opens up a bunch of fleet-battle missions with capships and stuff.
Thanks for the feedback, we are working on many of the areas you mention. This sort of input from a fresh user is of considerable use to me right now, as I'm in the midst of re-designing the earlier parts of the game.
Most of the more intensive multiplayer content (Deneb War, etc) requires a solid grounding in the game basics, so we require higher-than-newbie levels to get involved. We definitely need a lot more content in the early game, and some easier precursors to dynamic warfare that help people see what's coming, while also preparing them. We also need to tie together the early and mid levels of the game a lot better, to show people what content is out there.
There is a tradeoff to the fact that much of the unscripted PvP activity centers around combat and interaction in grayspace, and our attempts to prepare new players a little before they make that journey. But there is a great deal we can do to improve the preparation process, while telling them what's coming.
It's worth noting that the economy situation is being re-worked as well. There are, as people say, ways of very rapidly draining funds at later points. But we need to re-organize how and where that money is made, and how it is exposed and explained to newer players
Most of the more intensive multiplayer content (Deneb War, etc) requires a solid grounding in the game basics, so we require higher-than-newbie levels to get involved. We definitely need a lot more content in the early game, and some easier precursors to dynamic warfare that help people see what's coming, while also preparing them. We also need to tie together the early and mid levels of the game a lot better, to show people what content is out there.
There is a tradeoff to the fact that much of the unscripted PvP activity centers around combat and interaction in grayspace, and our attempts to prepare new players a little before they make that journey. But there is a great deal we can do to improve the preparation process, while telling them what's coming.
It's worth noting that the economy situation is being re-worked as well. There are, as people say, ways of very rapidly draining funds at later points. But we need to re-organize how and where that money is made, and how it is exposed and explained to newer players
I think the best idea in the OP is to start secondary characters at 2/2/2. Actually I think it should be 3/3/3.
Scaling the universe size to the player base is also a novel idea. I think a WH between latos and deneb would accomplish this nicely. It would make latos the choke point where the action happens.
Scaling the universe size to the player base is also a novel idea. I think a WH between latos and deneb would accomplish this nicely. It would make latos the choke point where the action happens.
I quite like the idea of WH's randomly breaking, creating dead ends in space. Could really mess up someone's trade route / create more isolated space pockets of activity.
I think the accelerated start idea has been thrown around before, but I do think that if you have a 10/10/10/10/10 char you should be able to make an alt with higher levels.
Also, one point I wanted to address:
"newby welcoming party"
It's nothing personal, it's just buisness.
I think the accelerated start idea has been thrown around before, but I do think that if you have a 10/10/10/10/10 char you should be able to make an alt with higher levels.
Also, one point I wanted to address:
"newby welcoming party"
It's nothing personal, it's just buisness.
"Also: what I would have expected is for missions where you play with our against other PC's instead of bots, for example convoy missions where other PC's are guarding and/or attacking the convoy."
Multiple players can take the same convoy missions. If you want players to attack you/voy, just look for the convoys going to Sedina and Odia.
Multiple players can take the same convoy missions. If you want players to attack you/voy, just look for the convoys going to Sedina and Odia.
"smaller universe. I think the # of systems should depend on the # of active players"
Couldn't agree with you more. Cut Itani space in half, and give UIT one system so they can be gay and mine. Add a grey system after every couple nation systems, and you have more player interaction!
Couldn't agree with you more. Cut Itani space in half, and give UIT one system so they can be gay and mine. Add a grey system after every couple nation systems, and you have more player interaction!
"Add a grey system after every couple nation systems, and you have more player interaction!"
Yarr!! Good idea!
Yarr!! Good idea!
Thank you for your input. If I may respond:
= credits =
from a traders perspective, you can make good credits in relative safety. It would be nice to have some expensive consumables to buy, like ultra expensive anti hive mines or something. we will work on it.
from a combatant perspective, it can sometime be difficult to afford a prolonged conflict. I have a habit (and reputation) of answering most grievances with a blaster (or three). A typical combat ships will often cost me 70k+, and I die alot (3000+ deaths ref: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/stats/82902/). Basic math of: ship cost * deaths = ouch.
= Players =
not every player wants to pvp. some players actually like to mine in solitude (and intentionally pick quite places in the galaxy where they hope and prey a pirate will not find them).
Some players like group missions, like hunting hive.
Some players like to kill kill kill *cough*kalb*cough*
If you are just dieing to die, ask on channel 100 and someone will typically oblige you.
= New characters =
starting a new alt can be somewhat time consuming, and this has been disused in the past. I will look to bring it up for review again.
= smaller universe =
there is more than one way to skin a cat, and while your suggestion has merit, i would rather review other possible alternatives.
= in conclusion =
thank you for joining. keep an eye out for group activities. and take care who you shoot at. some players have a habit (and reputation) for holding a vendetta.
= credits =
from a traders perspective, you can make good credits in relative safety. It would be nice to have some expensive consumables to buy, like ultra expensive anti hive mines or something. we will work on it.
from a combatant perspective, it can sometime be difficult to afford a prolonged conflict. I have a habit (and reputation) of answering most grievances with a blaster (or three). A typical combat ships will often cost me 70k+, and I die alot (3000+ deaths ref: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/stats/82902/). Basic math of: ship cost * deaths = ouch.
= Players =
not every player wants to pvp. some players actually like to mine in solitude (and intentionally pick quite places in the galaxy where they hope and prey a pirate will not find them).
Some players like group missions, like hunting hive.
Some players like to kill kill kill *cough*kalb*cough*
If you are just dieing to die, ask on channel 100 and someone will typically oblige you.
= New characters =
starting a new alt can be somewhat time consuming, and this has been disused in the past. I will look to bring it up for review again.
= smaller universe =
there is more than one way to skin a cat, and while your suggestion has merit, i would rather review other possible alternatives.
= in conclusion =
thank you for joining. keep an eye out for group activities. and take care who you shoot at. some players have a habit (and reputation) for holding a vendetta.
Welcome to VO.
I find PVP combat to be one of the most enjoyable things in VO. One of the things that makes in enjoyable is that most people fight to the death, even when they could escape (loaded trade ships being an obvious exception). Making ships and equipment significantly harder to get encourages people to run away when they start to lose. It isn't fun when people do that. We already have people who fly Valkyries around Latos and Sedina running away because it takes too long to bring them down.
That said, PVP can burn through cash quickly. A heated PVP battle over a wormhole can burn through a million credits in half an hour.
The fact that money doesn't matter much makes the game more fun. There are still plenty of people who enjoy trading for profit, and there are a few rare items you can buy from players for large amounts of cash. I think the going rate on Hive Queen Gatling Turrets is 10 million credits, and Hive Positron Blaster go for a million.
I find PVP combat to be one of the most enjoyable things in VO. One of the things that makes in enjoyable is that most people fight to the death, even when they could escape (loaded trade ships being an obvious exception). Making ships and equipment significantly harder to get encourages people to run away when they start to lose. It isn't fun when people do that. We already have people who fly Valkyries around Latos and Sedina running away because it takes too long to bring them down.
That said, PVP can burn through cash quickly. A heated PVP battle over a wormhole can burn through a million credits in half an hour.
The fact that money doesn't matter much makes the game more fun. There are still plenty of people who enjoy trading for profit, and there are a few rare items you can buy from players for large amounts of cash. I think the going rate on Hive Queen Gatling Turrets is 10 million credits, and Hive Positron Blaster go for a million.
Hi, and welcome to VO.
I think the multiplayer is in the closet with the candies where the monsters go. One Elite fan to another, do you think docking should be more like the Elite system or not? (Buy a docking computer, or learn how to dock) I mean, we used to be able to rotate with them stations with *digital* control! Maybe that should be in suggestions.
Anyway, if I see you ingame I will try to introduce you to the multiplayer aspect of this game.
I think the multiplayer is in the closet with the candies where the monsters go. One Elite fan to another, do you think docking should be more like the Elite system or not? (Buy a docking computer, or learn how to dock) I mean, we used to be able to rotate with them stations with *digital* control! Maybe that should be in suggestions.
Anyway, if I see you ingame I will try to introduce you to the multiplayer aspect of this game.