Forums » General
We'll be trying to improve as many of the discovered issues as we can, tonight, and then probably again later in the week (Fri? perhaps sooner). We welcome continued feedback on the Suggestions forum, as time goes on.
There are a couple of things you should be aware of, relating to these developments:
A) We may reset or remove all keys, if we choose to. This may happen when we add User Keys, or whenever. The current key distribution is for testing only, don't get too attached to it. Worst-case, you have to generate new keys and distribute them.
B) If we make substantial defensive improvements to the station, we will reset ownership to "nobody". It would be unfair to allow whomever happens to be in possession of the station to keep it, during a time when we potentially buff the defenses or otherwise change the game mechanics to make conquest more challenging. So, again, this is all for Testing, if you lose the station, don't moan about it.. go conquer it again.
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..that all having been said, we don't know exactly when different issues will be fixed. Things like the turret IFF bug may be complex to debug or properly fix. Adding a free EC-89 to the station is a bit more annoying than it might seem. But, we will endeavour, as we always do, to try and fix as many problems as we can in the shortest period of time.
Some solutions might not be seen as "ideal". Things like adding shields to turrets may be technically problematic, while simply buffing their HP is easy. So we may take short-cuts to try and make some immediate improvements where we can, and then note the need for better long-term solutions and work towards those along with the rest of the needed gameplay.
Depending on how much debugging is involved with some of the discovered issues, like turret AI, it could delay other forward development, such as User Keys. And by this I mean it could be an extra few days or a week or something, not "Someday". We tentatively hoped to have some basic User Key implementation this week, but that may not be possible now.
There are a couple of things you should be aware of, relating to these developments:
A) We may reset or remove all keys, if we choose to. This may happen when we add User Keys, or whenever. The current key distribution is for testing only, don't get too attached to it. Worst-case, you have to generate new keys and distribute them.
B) If we make substantial defensive improvements to the station, we will reset ownership to "nobody". It would be unfair to allow whomever happens to be in possession of the station to keep it, during a time when we potentially buff the defenses or otherwise change the game mechanics to make conquest more challenging. So, again, this is all for Testing, if you lose the station, don't moan about it.. go conquer it again.
---
..that all having been said, we don't know exactly when different issues will be fixed. Things like the turret IFF bug may be complex to debug or properly fix. Adding a free EC-89 to the station is a bit more annoying than it might seem. But, we will endeavour, as we always do, to try and fix as many problems as we can in the shortest period of time.
Some solutions might not be seen as "ideal". Things like adding shields to turrets may be technically problematic, while simply buffing their HP is easy. So we may take short-cuts to try and make some immediate improvements where we can, and then note the need for better long-term solutions and work towards those along with the rest of the needed gameplay.
Depending on how much debugging is involved with some of the discovered issues, like turret AI, it could delay other forward development, such as User Keys. And by this I mean it could be an extra few days or a week or something, not "Someday". We tentatively hoped to have some basic User Key implementation this week, but that may not be possible now.
I don't think you need to give them shields. Increasing their armor a bit might work, but decreasing the respawn time of the turrets (I'd suggest 10 minutes) essentially has the same effect as giving them shields (more bombers required to take out all the turrets in time).
Since people are continuing to conc-catapult the turrets, despite their knowing that little stunt requires Dev intervention to fix, is there a way to make the turrets return to their positions automatically?
What do you intend to do about players killing their own turrets in order to reset them when an attack is about to succeed? This is the biggest problem we've had so far with the station conquest mechanic as it completely breaks the system, while everything else simple makes certain aspects too easy or too difficult.
Can you disable the home button so players can not home at the station? Or make it so if they do try to home at the station it homes them to corvus capital, or otherwise make it unnecessary to ever purchase a ship at this station.
If a person is trapped at the station, can they be rescued via /gunner?
If a person is trapped at the station, can they be rescued via /gunner?
I've not had much of a chance to play with this update Inc, but it indeed sounds like 2008/2009 was not a wasted, if you can drop this kind of thing in-game for testing now, that's great. It really is.
Hey, does this mean we are like 1 step closer to explore addon? I think it does so am happy and will roll with whatever changes you make to it. Think of me when you read the whiny threads, and think *has this person had too much to drink?* :)
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The conc mining turrets is not just something that needs to be fixed for the new cap station, it's something that needs fixing all round, all turrets including capitol ones exhibit this behaviour.
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Enough determined players *could* use this in a newb sector too, cos if more than 8 players warp into one...
...Oh, should I not be reporting this in secret, oh well. I need more than me to know about it for it to become an issue apparently.
Hey, does this mean we are like 1 step closer to explore addon? I think it does so am happy and will roll with whatever changes you make to it. Think of me when you read the whiny threads, and think *has this person had too much to drink?* :)
[edit]
The conc mining turrets is not just something that needs to be fixed for the new cap station, it's something that needs fixing all round, all turrets including capitol ones exhibit this behaviour.
[edit 2]
Enough determined players *could* use this in a newb sector too, cos if more than 8 players warp into one...
...Oh, should I not be reporting this in secret, oh well. I need more than me to know about it for it to become an issue apparently.
Midweek fixes! yay!
TRS: if they fixed the other bug which the bug forums says it was then yes, When I intentionally trapped myself however there was a gunner bug and I was trapped til the station was re conquered then sent to itan
In the mean time i'd recommend NOT homing and NOT selling your ship hehe
Keep up the good work guys!
TRS: if they fixed the other bug which the bug forums says it was then yes, When I intentionally trapped myself however there was a gunner bug and I was trapped til the station was re conquered then sent to itan
In the mean time i'd recommend NOT homing and NOT selling your ship hehe
Keep up the good work guys!
lecter: We're attempting to make turrets pretty much fixed in place. We'll see how that goes. We may be to spawn them in place, or various.. other options.
ladron: We're going to add the two-minute global timeout after the turrets are destroyed. So.. destroy turrets, then for two minutes no one can dock, then the first person to dock gets the station.
We'll look at other, more complex options (like damage aggregations and blah blah) later, and depending on how this works. For tonight, a timeout is simple to do.
ladron: We're going to add the two-minute global timeout after the turrets are destroyed. So.. destroy turrets, then for two minutes no one can dock, then the first person to dock gets the station.
We'll look at other, more complex options (like damage aggregations and blah blah) later, and depending on how this works. For tonight, a timeout is simple to do.
Cool. A two-minute timeout isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing.
For what it's worth, I find it incredibly annoying when objects are absolutely fixed in space. It should definitely still be possible to move turrets around, just make them automatically fly back to their assigned positions when disturbed.
For what it's worth, I find it incredibly annoying when objects are absolutely fixed in space. It should definitely still be possible to move turrets around, just make them automatically fly back to their assigned positions when disturbed.
would it be possible to give the turrets a crazy amount of mass that would make conc-launching practically impossible?
"Just" having them fly back to their assigned positions is still problematic. The pathfinding AI is not perfect. It's still possible to trap the turret at the local minima of an asteroid or particular collision location, and it will have trouble navigating back. But we will be looking at this. Giving them a crazy amount of mass is also possible, but there are probably better options. We'll do what we can. Absolutely fixed objects may not be as cool, but they're no worse than all our stations and asteroids already.
You could just cheat on the AI and have it temporarily fly through stuff untill it returns to position. You may also need to give the turret a boost if it gets moved too far out of range.
<Shrug>
<Shrug>
I would rather have magically immobile stuff than objects visually flying through other objects.
Better idea - if a turret gets thrown too far away from the station, it explodes and instantly respawns (you could even make it respawn with the same amount of health it had before it exploded)
I would rather have magically immobile stuff than objects visually flying through other objects.
Understandable. One thing to keep in mind is that a fixed turret will be an easier bombing target than a "bouncy" one. If you lock them into a fixed position, you may wish to up their HP count in order to compensate for the fact that each and every flare/missile will impact on the unmoving target.
Understandable. One thing to keep in mind is that a fixed turret will be an easier bombing target than a "bouncy" one. If you lock them into a fixed position, you may wish to up their HP count in order to compensate for the fact that each and every flare/missile will impact on the unmoving target.
zik: that's possible, but could be a bit confusing.
lecter: yup, I'm looking at buffing turret HP anyway.
lecter: yup, I'm looking at buffing turret HP anyway.
It's still possible to trap the turret at the local minima of an asteroid or particular collision location, and it will have trouble navigating back.
This isn't likely to happen very often; other ships fly around all over sectors full of asteroids all the time, and only rarely does one get stuck.
More directly addressing the issue, though, you could have the turrets self-destruct if they've been more than 500m out of place for more than 10 minutes, or something like that. Immediately respawning them isn't even necessary, you could just treat them as though they were destroyed. This would make it impossible to "hide" the turrets indefinitely, while having negligible impact on other mechanics.
Absolutely fixed objects may not be as cool, but they're no worse than all our stations and asteroids already.
Those piss me off too, especially the asteroids that are often smaller than my ship ; )
This isn't likely to happen very often; other ships fly around all over sectors full of asteroids all the time, and only rarely does one get stuck.
More directly addressing the issue, though, you could have the turrets self-destruct if they've been more than 500m out of place for more than 10 minutes, or something like that. Immediately respawning them isn't even necessary, you could just treat them as though they were destroyed. This would make it impossible to "hide" the turrets indefinitely, while having negligible impact on other mechanics.
Absolutely fixed objects may not be as cool, but they're no worse than all our stations and asteroids already.
Those piss me off too, especially the asteroids that are often smaller than my ship ; )
This isn't likely to happen very often; other ships fly around all over sectors full of asteroids all the time, and only rarely does one get stuck.
It would be more accurate to say that you aren't aware of them getting stuck very often. Sectors with long runtimes are uncommon (most shut down frequently), and the structure of the sector is also an issue; we've had the problem quite a bit in the initial newbie sectors, although we've added various fixes and things. Plus, given that people can move the asteroids, that adds in some likelihood of intentionally sticking them somewhere that's problematic for the AI.
Anyway, yes, we can definitely put timers and requirements and things on the turrets. I'm hoping that basically none of this is needed, as we can simply increase their braking constant.
It would be more accurate to say that you aren't aware of them getting stuck very often. Sectors with long runtimes are uncommon (most shut down frequently), and the structure of the sector is also an issue; we've had the problem quite a bit in the initial newbie sectors, although we've added various fixes and things. Plus, given that people can move the asteroids, that adds in some likelihood of intentionally sticking them somewhere that's problematic for the AI.
Anyway, yes, we can definitely put timers and requirements and things on the turrets. I'm hoping that basically none of this is needed, as we can simply increase their braking constant.
Uh, ladron, we've already proved that small to medium-large asteroids are NOT fixed objects :D
Inc, more simple, make turrets allways visible to radar, no matter the distance. Perseverance to take them away is met by perseverance to search them, if we know where they are.
But I still see that the "enemy" key can be a practical workaround, like if turret is hit twice/three times, no matter if friend or foe, the turret "gives" the enemy key to player. This would solve many problems at once. And sure, make "foe" key override friend key when given by turret. And concussion weapons receives same response as any gun.
Other interesting approach, make turrets attached to station. they respawn in final location, from inside the turret. And cannot be moved, just like station itself.
Also, for coop-aimed objective, make that only a gunner can conquer a station, i.e., requires an Atlas or moth with 2 ppl inside to complete conquest. A little furter, make one new commodity, "Conquest Kit", that must be loaded on that ship and "operated" by gunner.
But I still see that the "enemy" key can be a practical workaround, like if turret is hit twice/three times, no matter if friend or foe, the turret "gives" the enemy key to player. This would solve many problems at once. And sure, make "foe" key override friend key when given by turret. And concussion weapons receives same response as any gun.
Other interesting approach, make turrets attached to station. they respawn in final location, from inside the turret. And cannot be moved, just like station itself.
Also, for coop-aimed objective, make that only a gunner can conquer a station, i.e., requires an Atlas or moth with 2 ppl inside to complete conquest. A little furter, make one new commodity, "Conquest Kit", that must be loaded on that ship and "operated" by gunner.