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I throw up a little bit every time I see how fast a centaur can backroll...
Even Xico's unfinished demo model (the little fighter looking thing, not the ugly bomber thing that looks like it's made out of legos) looks better than all of the ships currently in game, with the possible exception of the new TPG ships (Raptor, Rev, Terrie, and Connie). New art would be immensely helpful to this game; don't brush off an opportunity to get some.
Yes, that's the one.
Umm, I had a sketch artist working on some concepts, but he also dropped off the face of the earth (re-surfaced recently). I warned Xico from the getgo that we usually started with concept art, but I didn't have any at the time. He wanted to continue, and I tried to be supportive.
I made a pretty strong effort to communicate. We exchanged 7 emails in 3 days, then I got very sick for about 10 days, responded to his last one and never heard from him again. His work had some potential, although he kept going in eccentric directions I hadn't asked for. I tried to stay positive, but, then he vanished.
The last thing I need to do is spend a ton of time on people who claim to want to do things and then vanish. I can invest my time in other areas that are less likely to be vaporware. We do have an "in game test rendering solution for 3d modelers", but that's hardly relevant for people who don't progress beyond polygons. If someone can't handle more than a few days of feedback before disappearing, why would I want to burn the time explaining our complex visualization and shader systems to them? From what I saw, Xico would require a considerable amount of training to become a game artist, in any modern engine.. just on fundamentals alone. That means a big investment on my part.. and then he stopped responding.
Given the choice, I'd rather spend the time doing the work myself.. at least then I have something to show for my time, and some influence over whether it gets finished.
I made a pretty strong effort to communicate. We exchanged 7 emails in 3 days, then I got very sick for about 10 days, responded to his last one and never heard from him again. His work had some potential, although he kept going in eccentric directions I hadn't asked for. I tried to stay positive, but, then he vanished.
The last thing I need to do is spend a ton of time on people who claim to want to do things and then vanish. I can invest my time in other areas that are less likely to be vaporware. We do have an "in game test rendering solution for 3d modelers", but that's hardly relevant for people who don't progress beyond polygons. If someone can't handle more than a few days of feedback before disappearing, why would I want to burn the time explaining our complex visualization and shader systems to them? From what I saw, Xico would require a considerable amount of training to become a game artist, in any modern engine.. just on fundamentals alone. That means a big investment on my part.. and then he stopped responding.
Given the choice, I'd rather spend the time doing the work myself.. at least then I have something to show for my time, and some influence over whether it gets finished.
I still think Xico can produce some quality work given some concept art, although I think his plan to completely rework the look of all the ships in the game was a little ambitious and possibly one step too far too soon. I'd much rather see some Revenant>Wraith - style (Revenant replaced the Wraith for those of you who hadn't noticed) reworks of some of our worst-looking ships (centaur, hornet, and ragnarok among the largest and most immediate offenders).
But I'm assuming it's not as simple as telling Xico strictly "go make a Centaur replacement," giving him the "in game test rendering solution for 3d modelers," tossing him the email of the concept artist, and get back to working on the universe redux?
But I'm assuming it's not as simple as telling Xico strictly "go make a Centaur replacement," giving him the "in game test rendering solution for 3d modelers," tossing him the email of the concept artist, and get back to working on the universe redux?
Not really. First of all, I have to sign off on the concept art. But, beyond that, I can toss anyone some concept art, along with general specs for the types of materials and shaders needed, and tell them to make it in Max (which has several standardized DirectX shaders included). Teaching someone to use our viewer tools is more complex. Teaching someone to actually create an entire ship for use in our engine is.. a lot more complex.
And that's aside from the feedback process. I mean, for any one of the ships that Luis "made", there was probably a month or more of continual back-and-forth communication to try and get him to improve various things. And then, in the end, I had to do a lot of it myself. I spent more time on any one of "his" ships than he ever did. You only get so much from concept art, there's often a lot of other detail that has to be filled in by the artist. Concept art can be a great help, but it doesn't remove the need for continual feedback and communication to reach a polished product, and that requires time and steadfast patience. Even Waylon and I had to do a lot of that, in person, when we did the original art assets. The feedback loop is a necessity.
That's why this whole process can be a lot less net-positive than it seems at first glance. It gets even worse if the individual is inexperienced. Then you basically have to teach them how to be an artist, or their work may not even be useful (or require a lot of fixing). Xico was texturing via an old "mirror" method that's completely incompatible with modern shaders. That's a simple thing to tell someone not to do, but as an example, there are a lot of little "gotchas" like that. Luis was as experienced as we've had volunteer, and he never managed to get a good grasp on shaders, nor was he much on final polish. I had to redo most of his specularity and normal maps, tweak his meshes, and polish up his work. It's cool that we have it and all, but for the amount of time I spent, I often wondered if it would have been better to just make the stuff myself from the start, heh.
I really don't have any problem with people making stuff for the game, or whatever. I do have a problem with people burning up my time without anything to show for it. I don't have enough time as it is, and time wasted could'ave been spent.. writing a mission, design doc, or building my own content.
And that's aside from the feedback process. I mean, for any one of the ships that Luis "made", there was probably a month or more of continual back-and-forth communication to try and get him to improve various things. And then, in the end, I had to do a lot of it myself. I spent more time on any one of "his" ships than he ever did. You only get so much from concept art, there's often a lot of other detail that has to be filled in by the artist. Concept art can be a great help, but it doesn't remove the need for continual feedback and communication to reach a polished product, and that requires time and steadfast patience. Even Waylon and I had to do a lot of that, in person, when we did the original art assets. The feedback loop is a necessity.
That's why this whole process can be a lot less net-positive than it seems at first glance. It gets even worse if the individual is inexperienced. Then you basically have to teach them how to be an artist, or their work may not even be useful (or require a lot of fixing). Xico was texturing via an old "mirror" method that's completely incompatible with modern shaders. That's a simple thing to tell someone not to do, but as an example, there are a lot of little "gotchas" like that. Luis was as experienced as we've had volunteer, and he never managed to get a good grasp on shaders, nor was he much on final polish. I had to redo most of his specularity and normal maps, tweak his meshes, and polish up his work. It's cool that we have it and all, but for the amount of time I spent, I often wondered if it would have been better to just make the stuff myself from the start, heh.
I really don't have any problem with people making stuff for the game, or whatever. I do have a problem with people burning up my time without anything to show for it. I don't have enough time as it is, and time wasted could'ave been spent.. writing a mission, design doc, or building my own content.
The road of the hell is paved good intentions
Banzaiiii
Banzaiiii
Perhaps the best solution to this would be:
1) Hunt down some artwork, with side/front/perspective view.
2) Make available one of Luis models so we can see how/what the engine can handle and how it likes to handle it
3) Make available the .dll's and such to allow a modeler to view his work.
Not only will this likely shave off time you need to invest Incarnate, but it may make it easier for modelers and contributors to get an idea and work with it.
Thanks,
Xico
1) Hunt down some artwork, with side/front/perspective view.
2) Make available one of Luis models so we can see how/what the engine can handle and how it likes to handle it
3) Make available the .dll's and such to allow a modeler to view his work.
Not only will this likely shave off time you need to invest Incarnate, but it may make it easier for modelers and contributors to get an idea and work with it.
Thanks,
Xico
time wasted could'ave been spent.. writing a mission, design doc, or building my own content.
Or getting me my Goddamn ponies! :D
Or getting me my Goddamn ponies! :D
Releasing the source materials for one of the ship models that is currently in production would be extremely helpful for anyone wanting to produce new models for VO. Provided they are licensed in such a way that doesn't allow for those materials to be used in other games, I don't really see how that could be detrimental.
Personally I've always found that, given a good example, figuring a system out on my own is considerably more efficient than having someone try to explain it to me.
Give Xico the raptor model or something.
Personally I've always found that, given a good example, figuring a system out on my own is considerably more efficient than having someone try to explain it to me.
Give Xico the raptor model or something.
Give him a pony.
Personally I've always found that, given a good example, figuring a system out on my own is considerably more efficient than having someone try to explain it to me.
+1, in almost every regard. With someone available to answer questions, aka, the forum :)
+1, in almost every regard. With someone available to answer questions, aka, the forum :)
Yeah, releasing a sample model for 3d artists wanting to contribute would be great, if it's not too difficult.