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Fixed the Xith mining mission, plus other recent changes
The "Premium Xithricite wanted" mission (released Friday) has been fixed. I had the objective requiring Xith instead of Premium Xith, don't even know why the un-minable stuff is even in the objective list. Anyway, it should work now, sorry for the trouble on that.
All the new mining missions have a "per character, per unit time" factor attached to them. They may be taken at any station (mining in this case), but only N times per period (across the galaxy). The period depends on the mission. Some are once per day, some per couple of days, one is once per week, etc. As soon as they have been taken (not necessarily completed, but just taken), they will not appear for that character in any station until the time expires.
The point of this was to allow missions that might have exploitability holes, but mitigate the extent to which they could be exploited. I don't think that's the case with these new mining missions, since they actually require you to mine the stuff as well as deliver it (obviously, if it were delivery-only, someone could just stock up a given station and then spend a lot of time launching and re-docking or some such). However, I wanted to use the new per-unit-time limits just to test the feature as well as reduce the possibility of mission exploits.
The new trade routes added on Friday have some very advantageous possible pricing, but use the same demand system as ever. So, if a route is tanked, you're not going to get an amazing price.. a route's profitability isn't permanent. Some of them don't tank as quickly, but all of them can be tanked. All the routes bounce back between 10 and 17 times faster than they did previously, so the recovery time should be much better. None of this guarantees anything, of course, but some of the routes should be pretty lucrative, some of the time.
Once we have enough of them, total, grayspace should generally be pretty lucrative. Also, I think routes that are peaking should naturally show up in the daily trade report and such, although I'm not sure there.. that may be based on Demand value rather than total Profit.
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So, in other news, I would like some feedback on the mining missions and how people like them, as well as the trade changes and other stuff we did on Friday. The release thread seems to have been hijacked into an argument over "what defines a pirate", so I made this thread instead. So, feedback welcome.
All the new mining missions have a "per character, per unit time" factor attached to them. They may be taken at any station (mining in this case), but only N times per period (across the galaxy). The period depends on the mission. Some are once per day, some per couple of days, one is once per week, etc. As soon as they have been taken (not necessarily completed, but just taken), they will not appear for that character in any station until the time expires.
The point of this was to allow missions that might have exploitability holes, but mitigate the extent to which they could be exploited. I don't think that's the case with these new mining missions, since they actually require you to mine the stuff as well as deliver it (obviously, if it were delivery-only, someone could just stock up a given station and then spend a lot of time launching and re-docking or some such). However, I wanted to use the new per-unit-time limits just to test the feature as well as reduce the possibility of mission exploits.
The new trade routes added on Friday have some very advantageous possible pricing, but use the same demand system as ever. So, if a route is tanked, you're not going to get an amazing price.. a route's profitability isn't permanent. Some of them don't tank as quickly, but all of them can be tanked. All the routes bounce back between 10 and 17 times faster than they did previously, so the recovery time should be much better. None of this guarantees anything, of course, but some of the routes should be pretty lucrative, some of the time.
Once we have enough of them, total, grayspace should generally be pretty lucrative. Also, I think routes that are peaking should naturally show up in the daily trade report and such, although I'm not sure there.. that may be based on Demand value rather than total Profit.
------------
So, in other news, I would like some feedback on the mining missions and how people like them, as well as the trade changes and other stuff we did on Friday. The release thread seems to have been hijacked into an argument over "what defines a pirate", so I made this thread instead. So, feedback welcome.
Thanks for the fresh thread, Inc. I really wanted to discuss the merits of moving away from a "realistic" dynamic economy to one that more directly rewards trader and pirate interaction. This is what I wrote before the old thread got ugly:
Regarding the new trading routes: The Devs are simulating some aspects of supply and demand - the "dynamic economy." I believe that the profit on these key grey space routes should not change much based on the arbitrary supply and demand parameters, but instead based on how effective they are in encouraging trader-pirate interaction. To this end - prices for a few very high end grey routes should be dynamically advertised in the comm news section. Profit per item should be increased until a critical mass of traders trade the item, and absolute price per item should be high enough to have several pirates who regularly damage or kill those traders. The server could track this interaction between pirates and traders to adjust the prices and profits.
Perhaps a new mission could help facilitate this tracking. A trader would take a mission from one grey space location to another to carry the valuable cargo. These high risk delivery missions would all use the same worm hole to increase pirate-trader interaction. The rewards would be normal profit credits, plus faction and combat XP if attacked and a successful delivery made. When the mission is completed with no opposition, the absolute value of the cargo would go up - with no profit increase - to attract more pirates. If the mission isn't being run much, say less than 10 times per hour, then the profit per item would increase - to attract more traders.
Regarding the new trading routes: The Devs are simulating some aspects of supply and demand - the "dynamic economy." I believe that the profit on these key grey space routes should not change much based on the arbitrary supply and demand parameters, but instead based on how effective they are in encouraging trader-pirate interaction. To this end - prices for a few very high end grey routes should be dynamically advertised in the comm news section. Profit per item should be increased until a critical mass of traders trade the item, and absolute price per item should be high enough to have several pirates who regularly damage or kill those traders. The server could track this interaction between pirates and traders to adjust the prices and profits.
Perhaps a new mission could help facilitate this tracking. A trader would take a mission from one grey space location to another to carry the valuable cargo. These high risk delivery missions would all use the same worm hole to increase pirate-trader interaction. The rewards would be normal profit credits, plus faction and combat XP if attacked and a successful delivery made. When the mission is completed with no opposition, the absolute value of the cargo would go up - with no profit increase - to attract more pirates. If the mission isn't being run much, say less than 10 times per hour, then the profit per item would increase - to attract more traders.
The new mining missions are great and a really good step in the right direction. I had not “picked up” on the fact that they were limited per player throughout the galaxy but it makes sense and keeps things interesting.
More missions like these would be very welcome. Perhaps the next step is quantizes of several different low value ores mined and delivered under contract for a fixed amount?
Is this the right place to ask about mining plus fabrication? If not I will go where it is.
We already have water, and plastics making missions (I have forgotten if there are more) but it just ends there. Why not take the next logical steps and remove those items from the station cargo lists and let the miner/trader make and sell them?
I have never been able to figure out why something so low value as water is even offered as a cargo since I can’t imagine anyone actually carrying it. However I also cannot figure out why it is so cheap. It should at least be worth the combined values of the ores that go into making it plus a mark up for the labor. And since it is so vital to life perhaps its price should reflect this.
Only a few mining stations should be able to make water and plastics and all the other stations should have a fairly constant demand for the product at a fair but not lavish price. The trader should be able to make steady money but not a fortune at this sort of work and, like the new mining missions, they should have limits on the times per day they can be done.
And what about making oxygen? Everyone needs it and it is in short supply in space. Seems like a mining and fabrication mission waiting to be born.
The new cargoes are great. Next step is return cargoes. Corvus holo disks, as well as textiles seem ripe for this role as does surveillance equipment. It stands to reason that the best snooping equipment would come from Corvus.
Every time things start to become too routine the Devs are there with new and delightful goodies. Keep up the good work.
More missions like these would be very welcome. Perhaps the next step is quantizes of several different low value ores mined and delivered under contract for a fixed amount?
Is this the right place to ask about mining plus fabrication? If not I will go where it is.
We already have water, and plastics making missions (I have forgotten if there are more) but it just ends there. Why not take the next logical steps and remove those items from the station cargo lists and let the miner/trader make and sell them?
I have never been able to figure out why something so low value as water is even offered as a cargo since I can’t imagine anyone actually carrying it. However I also cannot figure out why it is so cheap. It should at least be worth the combined values of the ores that go into making it plus a mark up for the labor. And since it is so vital to life perhaps its price should reflect this.
Only a few mining stations should be able to make water and plastics and all the other stations should have a fairly constant demand for the product at a fair but not lavish price. The trader should be able to make steady money but not a fortune at this sort of work and, like the new mining missions, they should have limits on the times per day they can be done.
And what about making oxygen? Everyone needs it and it is in short supply in space. Seems like a mining and fabrication mission waiting to be born.
The new cargoes are great. Next step is return cargoes. Corvus holo disks, as well as textiles seem ripe for this role as does surveillance equipment. It stands to reason that the best snooping equipment would come from Corvus.
Every time things start to become too routine the Devs are there with new and delightful goodies. Keep up the good work.
Ok, I'll have a shot at them again, see how it goes.
lensman67 I think you're describing a few of my missions. I made the water + plastics manufacturing and some others (check out the VO wiki for details), and will probably be revisiting them sometime in the future. I like your suggestions so far, would you care to quantize any of them for argument's sake?
Well those missions are great and definitely need revisiting soon. I will be delighted to help in any way I can. If I understand you correctly you mean how much should we charge for the water, plastics etc.
If that is the case then, using the figures from Wiki, I we get “mission wage” of 4000 credits for 26 cu of water or 154 (153.84 rounded up) per cu.
Popping out the door of the station I am currently at and mining one cu of Aquean ore then hitting our very nice new jettison/price widget I get 32 credits per cu in the sector I am currently in. That gives a “materials cost” of 884 credits for a 26 cu of purified water.
So, subtracting the “opportunity cost” of the ore (what we could sell it for without the trouble of refining it) from the sale price of the purified water, the “value added” comes out to 122 credits per cu of purified water.
A mining moth loaded with 140 cu of water would then bring in 22,120 per load for a final profit of 17,080. Not a fortune by any means but not a bad price for an item sold to the station where it was made. A transportation cost would of course be tacked on for carrying the water out of the sector in which it was made.
The demand for water should be very stable at that price which would give it a slight advantage over simply mining and selling Ferric ore which brings in a high of 200 credits per cu and a low of 70 making water a decent low end fabrication job, one that the players could do while working for their mining badges.
There is no “guts or glory” in the job, just a low but steady wage.
Now, if I have done the quantization correctly let me know and I will work up a schedule of prices and profits for the rest of the products.
If that is the case then, using the figures from Wiki, I we get “mission wage” of 4000 credits for 26 cu of water or 154 (153.84 rounded up) per cu.
Popping out the door of the station I am currently at and mining one cu of Aquean ore then hitting our very nice new jettison/price widget I get 32 credits per cu in the sector I am currently in. That gives a “materials cost” of 884 credits for a 26 cu of purified water.
So, subtracting the “opportunity cost” of the ore (what we could sell it for without the trouble of refining it) from the sale price of the purified water, the “value added” comes out to 122 credits per cu of purified water.
A mining moth loaded with 140 cu of water would then bring in 22,120 per load for a final profit of 17,080. Not a fortune by any means but not a bad price for an item sold to the station where it was made. A transportation cost would of course be tacked on for carrying the water out of the sector in which it was made.
The demand for water should be very stable at that price which would give it a slight advantage over simply mining and selling Ferric ore which brings in a high of 200 credits per cu and a low of 70 making water a decent low end fabrication job, one that the players could do while working for their mining badges.
There is no “guts or glory” in the job, just a low but steady wage.
Now, if I have done the quantization correctly let me know and I will work up a schedule of prices and profits for the rest of the products.