I have always felt that the most interesting aspect of VO gameplay is the ongoing conflict between pirates, Vipers, and traders. The Itani/Serco war is really meaningless in comparison when you think about it. It only exists as a function of the backstory and role-playing. At this point, there is little to nothing for either side to fight for. There is no real difference between the Serco and the Itani. It is fighting for the sake of fighting. I know the devs are working towards making the war meaningful, but as it stands now, and as it has stood for the last 6 years or so, the Itani and Serco fight each other mostly just because they are told to do so.

On the other hand, the conflict between pirates, Vipers, and traders is player-driven and is a natural result of the different ways people play the game. The conflict is not artificial or forced. The conflict is real and relevant, and each side draws their motivations from real aspects of the game mechanics. Traders trade. Pirates hunt the traders. Vipers hunt the pirates. Traders sometimes fight and pirates sometime trade. It creates a dynamic set of relationships that makes for some really interesting and fun gameplay. The players who participate don't have to do so because they are instructed that it's what they are supposed to do. They do so because it's the way the game works. These players' roles aren't decided and labeled by their "color", but by the way they play the game.

I hope as the devs make changes to the game and to the faction system, they don't forget this aspect of gameplay or inhibit it in any way. I'm concerned about how the faction system changes will affect this part of the game, but I'm hopeful that they have a good plan.

I'm not sure what responses I expect to get to this post, and I'm not sure why I posted it. If this is in the wrong forum, feel free to move it. I guess I just wanted to share my observations about this aspect of gameplay and possibly shine some light on it for any new players who may not have known much about it before. This is not an attack on the Itani and Serco nationalists. We all play to have fun and I'm sure nationalists have plenty of fun, otherwise they wouldn't play the game. However, for me, and for many others, the real fun is not in Deneb, but in gray space. For us, that is where the real conflict in VO occurs. There really could be an entire game based solely around gray space, and in a way, there is. Cheers to all the other players, both friend and foe, who play roles in this conflict. I'll see you out there.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The devs have deliberately kept gray space unregulated and have carefully maintained a niche for pirates. It's no accident that piracy persists even after all the controversy it has generated over the years.

There are lots of problems which arnt obvious.
I understand his worries because the niche youre talking about might be smaller than expected.

Have you ever been a pirate that is KOS at our three nations? (serious question - no offense!)

Most players aren't really nationalist. Most sercos and Itanis players don't care about the war they just care about what they want to do. Even with the broken system the way it is, players have many options. Someone from any nation can go rouge and be a pirate or be POS with both nations. I doubt the new faction system will change the way players interact that much. An Itani might not be able to be POS with Itani and serco unless they become unaligned but i think thats a good thing.

I hope players are encouraged to READ the information before picking a nation. That way they will have some idea what limitations that have when they choice a base character.

"The Itani/Serco war is really meaningless in comparison when you think about it. It only exists as a function of the backstory and role-playing. At this point, there is little to nothing for either side to fight for. There is no real difference between the Serco and the Itani."

This comment should maybe go in role playing, but this is a game. There is good (Itani) and evil (serco scum). The Itani and serco nations are different in how they want to fight the "war". The Itani are doing a holding or defensive action. They would like to end the war and will only fight when pressed. The serco want to be aggressive and take territory from the Itani. But that explanation is simplistic and only pertains to the "average" person. That is the way all the "bots" act but not the players.

But that is the role that both sides start out with. But since we are players we make our own choices and decisions. Just like a bell curve there are very few serco/Itani nationalists. Most players are somewhere in the middle. If we feel we aren't in the right nation we ask the devs to change our nation.

As a player the choice is always ours :)

Edit: AgY: i doubt it. I know no pirates that are KOS with all major nations, do you?

Yes AgY, what is your point with it?

The thing is that you gain nothing (really.... nothing) by having all nation KOS. Especially now with the turrets effectively eliminating most of space access. You can compensate somewhat by having good standing with the grey factions but you cannot take most missions, buy a lot of kit etc.

Still, I like the war between traders and pirates even the occasional scrum with a donut munching pirate and support FatStrat85 on this. Please take care that you don't mess grey up devs.

Yea thats one of these problems.
I know there is nothing to gain :) I once was :)

reasons:

- you must be KOS with your own nation to kill your nationmembers
- you dont want to be one of those POS-peace-players
- you want to be red on the radar (so everyone knows that youre hostile)

I ended up with nothing but a vult and traders had easy time on runing away. And so did everyone else.
Some POS people just home/dock/rearm at (maybe your home) your "pirate capitol" and kick your ass.

And if you kill them you just ruin your (corvus or whatever) standing and/or they respawm at your home.

Thats how i experienced the "carefully maintained niche". (no affront against anyone)

My experience exactly. Apart from the getting ass kicked and only flying Vults.

Eventually I too had to up my UIT standing as too many missions require you to fly through UIT. I still hate my UIT standing and would rather be KOS.

One thing though, in my view a KOS pirate is if nothing else an honest pirate.
The POS pirates should really look hard at the game-fucking manual and maybe close that particular chapter. If you are a pirate, be a pirate. If you are a newb killer/faction buster, keep your POS but don't call yourself a pirate.

/me cheers Azumi.

I was KOS to all the major factions for a while. I agree it was quite boring because you where very limited in the ships you could get. I think this could be solved by making special pirate faction ships where you have to be all kos to the major nations to get them. Also I think all the stations in grey space should be like corvus ones where if you kill someone in their space there is no faction loss.

Thats how i experienced the "carefully maintained niche". (no affront against anyone)

Now why would I perceive an affront from what appears to be an attempt at mockery? The disclaimer doesn't help. Maybe if you'd left off the quotes and just said "...experienced the niche".

People are citing problems associated with the broken faction system which is in the process of being revised. The faction system is broken for everyone at the moment.

I was not attempting to state that piracy was in a state of perfection. I was responding to the OP's concern. My point was that the devs have acted to maintain piracy in the game and have exhibited their support of piracy both in word and deed. The role of pirate has evolved over time, and will continue to do so. I can't tell you how many changes have been met with cries of "the end of piracy", only to have the more resourceful pirates discover the opportunities that were left open for them.

Hi. I think the best I can say to this is: Yes, I think piracy is important. Yes, I'm going to try to make it better rather than worse. I'm pretty confident in the direction we're headed, although during "interim change" periods, there may be blocks of time when things are a bit messed up (like, say, the economy right now, for example). But we'll get through them and the game will be better for it overall.

Whistler: I tried not to rant but it seems the doublequotes slipped thru...
Back then it was a very intensive and rather frustrating experience for me . Maybe you can imagine (maybe not)

Thanks for raising hope Incarnate.

I am KOS with all the major factions, as well as most of the minor factions and must say, it is the bestest of all ways to play. Rather than be a fucking pussy like all the other "pirates," I can fuck people up wherever the fuck I want. (Or can get to.)

Edit: Mind you, maybe I'd get tired of it if I ever had the opportunity to play for more than a month at a time.

With the recent turrets, Strat won't find me in UiT space n kill me nomore because if he does, I know I cannot fight back and I know how to run away, better than even bess does - I have to run away or become KOS - but im sure he can find my new hideout, the only problem is, I am now concerned about faction standing (as I should be, imho) so I can camp the entry points into grey space without getting shot by turrets.

It makes me sick that UiT Dislike+ me, so I can really feel Azumi's pain..

With the advent of turrets guarding nation space, there needs to be much greater reward to players for venturing into grey space. Additionally, with the small player base, that reward needs to be localized to a single area to increase the likelyhood of traders running into pirates.

I think rather than rewarding players for going to gray space, the game should punish them for staying in nation space, but in general I quite agree.

With the advent of turrets guarding nation space, there needs to be much greater reward to players for venturing into grey space. Additionally, with the small player base, that reward needs to be localized to a single area to increase the likelyhood of traders running into pirates.

Agreed. There should be some trade good available only in Corvus station Bractus, and in high demand only in Sedina D-14, with a 1 or 2 CU volume and a 100,000 credit per unit price. Profit should be north of 5,000 credits per CU. Obviously, there's the risk of people taking the longer, but marginally safer route around through UIT space, but it would make Odia--supposedly the dark, fearsome core of Grey Space--a much more popular hunting ground for pirates.

at 05:45PM, genka said:
I think rather than rewarding players for going to gray space, the game should punish them for staying in nation space, but in general I quite agree.

---

Eize runs a self-diagnostic..

I agree with genka on something? Something is wrong...

break19

I'm KOS with three nations.
But, I'm not a pirate.

I agree in general with Strat's post.

Lecter's suggestion for a valuable and profitable bractus trade good is excellent. It would immediatly create new action for traders and pirates. The idea is also simple to implement. How about it devs?