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The reason I'm canceling my supscription

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Jan 02, 2009 incarnate link
I appreciate all the feedback, constructively intended as it is.

We're well aware of the issues, and have been working towards a series of major changes for some time. Since 2005, roughly. These changes are only just now beginning to take shape, and have been a long time coming. We're essentially working on the "Sequel" to the current game, which will appear as a series of patches over the coming year. However, before we start adding a lot of new stuff, we're trying to fix a lot of old stuff.

For the short-term, my newspost from December 3rd still holds true.

We update art assets as we go along, and whenever we have resources to do so. We're also going to be making much more.. intensive use of our assets in the near future, which in some ways makes it better that they aren't that complex. But there are definitely some that we intend to re-work when we get a chance (much as we redid the starfields and a few other blatant issues over the past 12 months).

I don't expect the game it be all things to all people.. ever, but I do expect increased interest once we complete our desired goals over 2009. We have very specific direction and intentions, which I will make public before long (but not until I'm prepared for a formal press release on the subject).

Anyway, I hope Onim..bus.. comes back and visits again at some time in the future. VO may spend periods of time with little apparent happening, but then goes through pretty drastic evolutions, and we're coming up on one of those periods.
Jan 03, 2009 FatStrat85 link
I love how incarnate's posts are always so cryptic and exciting. He's a true publicist. /me is on the edge of his seat!
Jan 03, 2009 Infinitis link
I see the problem mainly in all these soon [tm] things.
Many bug fixes, improvement ideas etc. are here for years. Often even very simple ones. It is not only bad for the ideas themselves but it also discourage people to think of / post new ones.

I'll take the green cross on the radar screen as an example. Wait, I know it is a stupid minor problem but like I said, just an example.

Turrets were introduced what made (and not only this) the green cross describing jump point on the radar screen hard to find. Well, I told incarnate about it (#1). He replied that he will take a care about it and that it is probably mentioned on the board already (#2). He also told me that I should post it there too so I did (#3). Several months passed and the cross is still green. I guess it can take just few minutes to change the color and I think I spent more time describing it than it will take to fix it.

When talking about turrets. Verasi still has this secondary "testing" turrets I think. And again, we have thread about it here.

I know, only 4 devs... You cannot attract people by saying - Look, this all has been done only by four developers! This can surprise someone, this can keep core players and fans here, ... maybe even me. But this never will hold reasonable amount of regular players in game and this will not pull CCs from their pockets.

When was a new ship introduced last time? New weapon? A specialty item? Some gadget to have a fun with? I play VO only few months so I cannot judge and I just would like to tell how I see it from my point of view. Even after this short time period I am mostly bored in game and I only pwn (pvp) over and over again (Space Quake).

Economy has been rebuilt. Ship prices went up, escort earnings down. OK, I can live with that. But! Last few days I have to go round several stations to find a mission. To adjacent sector, in my direction at least, ... or even at all. Sorry, ... but this is simply BORING. When I get one over 5 system in grey then and, in the end, I get 6k for it ... I feel bad and I also feel that I should stop playing because I am just wasting my time here.

Problem with missing escorts was (is?) here for some time. When you take escort, dock and undock jump point moves to the middle of the station. Reported several months ago, incarnate replied to thread, haven't fixed it yet. Voys have a different exit points in ION storms. In fact the only place they usually need protection. Reported, confirmed, not fixed. I can continue and continue and continue ... and these are bugs. We can also start digging up ideas and possible advancements. When I read the suggestions forum I see MANY very good ideas there. Many people spent a lot of time on inventing, describing, discussing them. Maybe it's the time to realize some. I mean some more.

I hope you see my point.
Jan 03, 2009 incarnate link
Replacing the Verasi "secondary" turrets is not a trivial thing to do, and that thread is relatively recent.

Here's another perspective: when a given developer (person) is in the middle of a major project, it often is not best to derail them to go fix some minor thing that crops up. It breaks their train of thought, causes them to have to "come back to" whatever they were working on later and try to remember what they were doing. It's often better to finish the project and come back to minor fixes later. "Later" can be awhile, because different people are required to fix different areas, due to specifics of knowledge.

Additionally, we sometimes fix things, and test the fix, and are unable to reproduce the problem anymore.. but someone in production still finds an uncommon edge case of the bug. However, because they think it's "been reported" they choose not to bring up the problem again. So we think the problem has been fixed, but our users think it's never even been investigated or addressed. The whole convoy jump-point thing is an example of this.. we've pushed out a number of code fixes for this problem (although not in the last six months).

And here's yet another thing: just because you think it's a "simple fix" does not mean that it is, or that it makes sense for us to do at a given point in time. For instance, the "green cross" radar issue.. it's a good suggestion, but it's best done when we're batching a whole bunch of radar-changes at once, rather than doing them piecemeal. We're in the middle of the whole factional/friendly-fire thing, the RFC of which describes changes to the friend/foe system and other aspects of the radar. If we know there's a bunch of related work coming up, we will attempt to batch similar projects together to happen at the same time. Again, it is generally more time-efficient to do that than to derail people constantly for minor "easy" fixes. And that's assuming the fix even is "easy", which many of them aren't and have.. other technical ramifications and side-effects that must be considered.

Result: What is best for the development of the game is not necessarily what provides the most positive feedback for suggestions and ideas from the userbase. We try to drop in worthwhile suggestions quickly, if they are convenient to do and the timing makes sense; and occasionally they do show up quickly. But, most of them.. are not convenient. Instead I make a note of the thread and come back to them when we're ready to look at that area of the codebase, or are doing a re-design of that area of the game.

This is called Project Management.

When it comes to ships and addons and things, I made a commentary about this when we started on the whole Faction/FF/Economy bit in late summer. I said I would not be making any new content for awhile, or at least it would be a lot less frequent, because I would be spending my time on this other major-redux/re-design development that needed to get done quickly (and it still hasn't!). Specifically, here's an excerpt my Newspost (still available) from September 15th:

I've been trying to make content and mission drops on a weekly basis, since we've had all this other invisible work happening behind the scenes; but now that I can actually move forward with some the universe-redux work and other areas, these might become a little less frequent. When my time gets occupied with bigger development, I have less time for content development. Hopefully our PCC people will also continue coming up with cool new missions and such, which I will also be doing from time to time.

Since then I actually have written several new missions, the most recent of which was only a few weeks ago (new Training mission). But I cannot do this stuff as often as I was over the summer.

And here's the thing: Infinitis's post and the previous (more dramatic) thread by Vardonx fundamentally say "Yes, we know there's four developers, and that's nice, but we expect more." My short answer to that is: your expectations are out of line with reality. I am the ONLY developer who creates new ship/addon/mission content. The rest are all very busy doing much more fundamental work on the server engine and game.. absolutely necessary stuff for this "next step" of development that I've been mentioning, and frankly, stuff that only they can do.

If my time is absorbed by some other topic, like trying to disentangle our current faction-system mess and devise a more balanced gameplay structure, or analyze and rework our entire trade-item structure to enhance the trade issues and push more traffic into grayspace.. guess what? I'm not making content drops while I'm doing that. It follows the same principles as I mentioned above, derailing myself to do some "minor" thing is not always the best idea and only lengthens the "bigger" project (like, say, factional/FF stuff), which then causes other people to be frustrated about that delay. Honestly, I can't win.

For this reason, I created this thread to try and organize a lot of the user-suggested content into one area and look for only those things that seemed to get the best community feedback.. but even putting in that stuff takes some time, and I only get to it periodically. At the same time, I try to make use of the PCC-created missions and whatnot, but the most recent ones I pushed out eventually demonstrated some significant faction-standing problems and had to be pulled.. and haven't been fixed since, and other recent submissions have exposed other bugs in some of the PCC features, then requiring more behind-the-scenes development.

So, at the end of the day, here's where it is: Please do keep suggesting stuff. Please remind us or revive threads that have been long dead, or bug reports for problems long-since reported that are still present.. it's possible we thought we fixed the issue, or there's some infrequent corner-case that is still present.

However, also keep in mind: We're doing the best that we can (truly) with the resources and options we have available. Much of what goes on with us is not public: we may burn development time pursuing some possible corporate-relationship option that has a strong possibility of yielding funds; or we may have some nasty behind-the-scenes technical issue that's drastically impacting game stability but not yet in a user-visible way, and we have to fix it. Both of these cases have occurred in the last four months.

It's not that we don't like the new ideas, it's not that we're ignoring people, or that we're entirely out of touch and never play the game. It's that life appears very differently from our point of view, which includes all the issues of personnel, project management, technical considerations, and random acts of god. I get where you guys are coming from, but unfortunately, I don't think the reverse is even possible; I explain what I can, when I can, but it has never been enough for some people, and that goes with the territory. See Level 12 of Development Hell.

Finally, if this sort of explanation isn't good enough for some people, I understand, and I don't expect them to stay, or to support us. I do what I can with what I have, and aside from that, I have to just keep my head down and my focus on the future.
Jan 03, 2009 blacknet link
also keep in mind to that every 1,000 lines of code you *WILL* have between 5 and 50 bugs, 20% of them will be critical bugs.
Jan 03, 2009 Daare link
The Bungie reference in the PA comic made me laugh since it's *still* so true for them even after their split from MS. It also made me tear up in nostalgia as I remembered the glory days of Marathon and Myth. It also made me smile in hope as Bungie exemplifies what can be accomplished by independent developers with a vision supported by dedicated fans. Hat tip to the devs and their families - here's to a happy 2009 for us all.
Jan 03, 2009 missioncreek2 link
I thought the point about the marketing buzz possible with an existing science fiction universe was a good one. If I were to select an existing and popular storyline to marry to the VO engine, it would be the Honor Harrington Universe, by David Webber.

Any other suggestions for compelling SF universes?
Jan 04, 2009 toshiro link
Well... I think the current story they have is compelling enough.
Jan 04, 2009 Hentai_Jeff link
Change the storyline? I don't think so, maybe throw a little more elements for it into the game yes but noway should we change it.
Jan 04, 2009 incarnate link
Integration with any pre-existing science fiction storyline (at least, any of note/fame) usually involves considerable licensing costs or other agreements. For the moment, we'll be focusing on gameplay with our own story-IP. It's both easy to have an awesome license and lose your audience (Star Wars Galaxies) or no license and retain a lot of subscribers (EVE Online, etc). In both those cases, gameplay was the issue critical to success or failure.
Jan 04, 2009 red_death link
Incarnate's comment about interrupting development to work on bugs is very true, and personally, I hate doing bug fixes myself.

Inc, I'm not trying to tell you guys how to run your shop, so this is meant as a constructive suggestion by way of several comments I've seen in various threads, including this one: Why not rotate that task among the four of you and have the person who's week it is for bug fixing dedicate 50% (maybe 100% at first until the backlog gets caught up).

This would have three very positive effects: 1) it would increase customer satisfaction (always an intangible, but valuable ROI); 2) would leave 3 other guys relatively undisturbed; and 3) would help to cross train all the staff in various aspects of game play (since you mentioned that you guys tend to specialize).
Jan 04, 2009 Daare link
If it were even remotely possible, I would suggest Douglas Adam's Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy as it is both existential and funny at the same time. Plus there's a really nice restaurant.
Jan 04, 2009 vardonx link
Since Inc mentioned my post (the one I wrote from being extremely frustrated with BS at the time), I will add that I am re-upping because I really do want this game to be viable.

red_death's suggestion seems a good one to me.

Another suggestion might be to tap some of the talent in the PCC: there are professional developers, project managers, and IT support staff all in there that would probably be glad to help out if you guys just asked.

For instance, I suck at story writing (making my potential PCC contribution minimal at best), but I have 20 years as a developer/architect/project manager and would be happy to contribute some time if possible.
Jan 04, 2009 blacknet link
Doing field service work I see this every day. What I ask my clients to do is make a list of things for me to do when I show up. That way when I am on site ppl will not be going oh while you are here can you do this or that and pull me away and I end up getting nothing done but waste time and money. Instead as they run into things they put it on the list and when I show up I have the list and can order it by priority. Much cleaner, orderly and structured. I can be super efficient and get more things done in less time.

i.e. One thing that has not set well is when the dev's are in game everyone is pulling them into something else other than what they were there for. Thus further causing the cycle of delay.
Jan 04, 2009 Whistler link
I think that the devs already put things on a list an order them by priority. The problem comes in when their priority differs from that of a player.

I'm not sure that the devs are actually diverted much from their tasks when in-game. They are quite capable of being on and working without anyone knowing, and I suspect that they are seen when they want to be seen and to interact.
Jan 04, 2009 incarnate link
red_death: Fixing bugs in code you did not write and don't necessarily understand is drastically more difficult and time-consuming than the alternative. Thus, fixing bugs in the codebase is usually dependent on who is most familiar with the given area.. Ray fixes most client bugs, Michael fixes Kourier and erlang bugs, Andy fixes some server bugs and other areas, etc. If we just rotated them between us, they would take much longer to address. And I mean a great deal longer. Where overlap is possible, we do distribute tasks based on whose to-do list happens to be clear, but that possibility isn't very common.

In a perfect world, everyone has a reasonable familiarity with every aspect of the game code. But that isn't very realistic for us, at present.
Jan 04, 2009 zamzx zik link
Yeah, the only way VO has gotten this far is because each developer has his/her own niche. Each one is pretty much essential to the team. I'd say they're actually missing one member (artist) if they had one of those, they could be churning out new ships/'content'

Now that's it's possible for content to be rapidly placed ingame via the mission editor and other stuff...Really all that the devs need is a dedicated artist.
Jan 04, 2009 Armonia link
Let me just say first that I thoroughly enjoyed this post. I, like many others, want to see this game be the next big thing.
My opinion is one of the biggest thing lacking is content. I know the PCC is available, but it, too, has it's bugs.
I agree with many of you where an 'artist' is badly needed.
I also agree that PCC members should have more contribution capabilities, after all, Vardonx and many others are right, there are many people more than willing to help.
There needs to be more guides. I know that sounds biased because I applied or whatever, but if there were more in game events, i think that would induce more player activity.
I also think the combat missions should give more money. The ONLY way to make good cash, which isn't that good anymore, is trade. Some of us like to fight. I tried to make a mission that was quite involved and took about 30 mins. I failed miserably at it :\ but it paid 250k for about 30 minutes of work (it involved killing a few Vults and Hogs, finding and popping a corvus moth, and returning items to starting station. It went from (Itan/Serco) to UIT to Grey).
Just some thoughts.

EDIT: I just noticed the title of this post. I had forgotten after reading everybody's messages. This should definitely be in another thread :\
Jan 04, 2009 missioncreek2 link
Armonia has an excellent point about the potential contribution of guides. Perhaps the Devs could sponsor a contest on the forum:

Best guide Sponsored Events

It would be a suggestions thread for new guide sponsored events.

The winners who suggested the best events could be vetted and appointed as guides.
Jan 05, 2009 missioncreek2 link
The big problem with the VO backstory is that it is not presented in a compelling way. Perhaps a skilled story teller could write some VO novellas which better set the VO scene in the course of relating an exciting drama.

These VO Novella's could then be woven into a mission tree, allowing VO to be the delivery system for the stories. The stories could additionally be distributed in other electronic media forms, providing new ways to reach possible VO players.