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Incarnate, I need to email you for details. I don't remember what that email would be, so someone please give me that...
Concerning the 'money exploitation'......all I can say in public is that what I had did not appear out of thin air........it had already existed before I got it. I can't and won't say anything more than that in public.
Concerning the 'money exploitation'......all I can say in public is that what I had did not appear out of thin air........it had already existed before I got it. I can't and won't say anything more than that in public.
From what I see the ban should have been from lack of reporting the bug. It is one thing to find a bug and report it to get closure for fairness of gameplay and balance overall, yet another to gain an unfair advantage and expect a 'sorry about that' for reversing the exploit gains.
As for the cc thing I have to point out here that services rendered is money due in some form. If a reversal is done then the guilty party is in debt and should be billed accordingly.
As for the cc thing I have to point out here that services rendered is money due in some form. If a reversal is done then the guilty party is in debt and should be billed accordingly.
So sorry to hear about all the hassles and problems. It can be a major pain when you're doing something that you love to do and you're trying to make a business of it and then a few individuals do what they can to ruin it for you. Just because they can.
I know you may be tired of the comparisons with Eve-Online but there are some lessons that you can learn from them. One is by taking a look at the EULA. While it is massive, it does rule in favor of the company running the business. (Listening for groans from the players.) But lets face it, if you're going to run a business, then you have the weight the balance between providing a desirable service and protecting your business (which in turn, means continued service to the consumers).
In protecting your business, you have to be firm about dealing with those who ignore the EULA. If you ignore the abuse, the your business suffers, and thus the service you can provide.
As with any business, there are peaks and valleys. The valleys can be discouraging, but by staying focused on your goals for the business, the product, and the community that you're serving - the results will make it all worth it.
Stryver steps down off of soap box.
I know you may be tired of the comparisons with Eve-Online but there are some lessons that you can learn from them. One is by taking a look at the EULA. While it is massive, it does rule in favor of the company running the business. (Listening for groans from the players.) But lets face it, if you're going to run a business, then you have the weight the balance between providing a desirable service and protecting your business (which in turn, means continued service to the consumers).
In protecting your business, you have to be firm about dealing with those who ignore the EULA. If you ignore the abuse, the your business suffers, and thus the service you can provide.
As with any business, there are peaks and valleys. The valleys can be discouraging, but by staying focused on your goals for the business, the product, and the community that you're serving - the results will make it all worth it.
Stryver steps down off of soap box.
I think you handled it entirely appropriately, Incarnate.
As far as the credit card fraud, as Ecka pointed out it will only happen more often as more people join the game, including more dishonest losers. So it's good for this to happen now rather than inevitably later, so the system can be put into place to deal with it more smoothly in the future.
Ecka: Why limit your disappointment in financial exploitation to times when small businesses are the victim? Exploitation of anyone, individual, small business, or a business as big as Wal-Mart is wrong.
As far as the credit card fraud, as Ecka pointed out it will only happen more often as more people join the game, including more dishonest losers. So it's good for this to happen now rather than inevitably later, so the system can be put into place to deal with it more smoothly in the future.
Ecka: Why limit your disappointment in financial exploitation to times when small businesses are the victim? Exploitation of anyone, individual, small business, or a business as big as Wal-Mart is wrong.
I agree with Professor Chaos on this matter.
I do also hope that Guild isn't overly harmed by the credit card issue, and that a system can be established now (rather than later) for the defense against this kind of fraud in the future.
-Inc: If you haven't already, I would contact the local police department if the fraud was intentional. That may allow the arrest and prosecution of the offender where you can receive restitution through the court instead of through a collections agency.
I know many state and federal prosecutors are really hounding on Credit fraud, and they're likely to take any strong case. If it amounts to more than $500 it's a felony crime as well.
As well as if he committed fraud across state lines, that is a federal crime for FCC violations (illegal internet usage), as well as fraud.
And I would note to the players, who have both expressed opinions that Inc was "too soft" or "too hard":
remember that the Devs have ALWAYS taken action for the best of the game, and the player-base. In other games the user might have been perma-banned, or in previous bugs the problems may not have been retroactively correctable.
This does not mean however that the Dev's, based on their prior actions do not still have the discretion to make new policy and decisions. I encourage you all to remember that this game is successful because of them, and their decisions, we should trust their judgment.
I do also hope that Guild isn't overly harmed by the credit card issue, and that a system can be established now (rather than later) for the defense against this kind of fraud in the future.
-Inc: If you haven't already, I would contact the local police department if the fraud was intentional. That may allow the arrest and prosecution of the offender where you can receive restitution through the court instead of through a collections agency.
I know many state and federal prosecutors are really hounding on Credit fraud, and they're likely to take any strong case. If it amounts to more than $500 it's a felony crime as well.
As well as if he committed fraud across state lines, that is a federal crime for FCC violations (illegal internet usage), as well as fraud.
And I would note to the players, who have both expressed opinions that Inc was "too soft" or "too hard":
remember that the Devs have ALWAYS taken action for the best of the game, and the player-base. In other games the user might have been perma-banned, or in previous bugs the problems may not have been retroactively correctable.
This does not mean however that the Dev's, based on their prior actions do not still have the discretion to make new policy and decisions. I encourage you all to remember that this game is successful because of them, and their decisions, we should trust their judgment.
Our original policy of letting some white-hats tinker with the game was based on the very realistic assessment that.. whether you permit it or not, people will always hack around on your product. It's usually better to be friends with said people, and find out the information, as long as they're just doing so for intellectual curiosity and are not negatively impacting the game (clearly, not the case here). Our EULA (also not short), Rules of Conduct, Terms of Service, and various other agreements all allow us to do.. whatever we want. Choosing what is in the best interest of the game and the company is not always a simple thing, and we attempt to walk that line the best that we can. This also plays into our past choices with exploits.. whether to consider destroying the advancements of a lot of newbies for the sake of reverting the advancements of some exploitative players, etc. Not trivial choices to make, and ones that could have drastically impacted the immediate health of the company and game.
DeathJr:
Whether or not the bug was pre-existing is irrelevant, it's the exploitation and lack of reporting by the given party that's at issue. It's like stumbling across a nuclear bomb in a field, do you tell the authorities, or do you try to set it off / sell it? The morale impact of devaluating the currency of the game by word getting out that someone was *massively* exploiting and getting away with it.. would have had a catastrophic effect on the community. Hell, that was how it came to our attention, complaints on the boards and separate/unrelated complaints emailed to me. And that was when hardly anyone knew about it. It doesn't matter how broken our economy is or how many silly trade routes there are.. when you take a level playing field and make it not-level, you're going to make a lot of people angry. Those people then leave in disgust, the company shuts down, and VO ceases to exist. Can you imagine how bad this might have been if we COULD NOT have fixed it, as it was with some previous exploits? This is why both the penalty, and the response from me, are so acerbic. This is why this cannot happen again. Before you exploit, think carefully on whether you want to damage or destroy the very game you claim to support. It has nothing to do with the "reality" of the damage extent, this is entirely perceptual, like the stock market: once people lose faith in the fairness of a game mechanic.. they lose faith in the game as a whole.
My email address is still on the guild software page, amongst other places, plus there are the other established role addresses for contacting the company.
Thanks for you support, to those who have expressed such. I'm going to go ahead and lock this now.. I think we've covered it.
DeathJr:
Whether or not the bug was pre-existing is irrelevant, it's the exploitation and lack of reporting by the given party that's at issue. It's like stumbling across a nuclear bomb in a field, do you tell the authorities, or do you try to set it off / sell it? The morale impact of devaluating the currency of the game by word getting out that someone was *massively* exploiting and getting away with it.. would have had a catastrophic effect on the community. Hell, that was how it came to our attention, complaints on the boards and separate/unrelated complaints emailed to me. And that was when hardly anyone knew about it. It doesn't matter how broken our economy is or how many silly trade routes there are.. when you take a level playing field and make it not-level, you're going to make a lot of people angry. Those people then leave in disgust, the company shuts down, and VO ceases to exist. Can you imagine how bad this might have been if we COULD NOT have fixed it, as it was with some previous exploits? This is why both the penalty, and the response from me, are so acerbic. This is why this cannot happen again. Before you exploit, think carefully on whether you want to damage or destroy the very game you claim to support. It has nothing to do with the "reality" of the damage extent, this is entirely perceptual, like the stock market: once people lose faith in the fairness of a game mechanic.. they lose faith in the game as a whole.
My email address is still on the guild software page, amongst other places, plus there are the other established role addresses for contacting the company.
Thanks for you support, to those who have expressed such. I'm going to go ahead and lock this now.. I think we've covered it.