Forums » General

the ctc itani disadvantage?

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Jul 14, 2007 DidNae link
so i realize that before itani had the ctc advantage, and now it may be time to give serco a head start for a little while. but in the interests of fairness, something should maybe be done, unless i'm looking at the map wrong. itani can pretty much enter itani space one way with ctc cargo, and that is through edras. serco can enter two ways, one of which is a serco system and one of which has a serco monitored wormhole. and since both of those paths originate from ukari, and there are two more ways to enter ukari, itani pretty much have to split their forces when blockading, while serco can just concentrate at the edras-jallik wormhole.

this thread isn't really for suggestions to fix this imbalance (assuming there is one and i'm not missing some painfully obvious fact), but for discussion on it. would something eventually be needed to be done about this? is it that much of an issue? do the serco deserve an advantage, or do we try to keep it as even as possible?
Jul 14, 2007 WaveClimber link
look at the scores....
Jul 14, 2007 moldyman link
At the current time, the Serco deserve it. However, one day it should be balanced somehow, in my opinion.
Jul 14, 2007 drazed link
I like this. Finally brings some combat to the Itani/UIT border. We've been fighting near Serco/UIT border for way too long =(
Jul 15, 2007 MysticRogue link
Well you have to look at it this way as well. When itani get serco cargo, they have a choice, they can go via greyspace to itani space or through uit territory. This makes serco have to split as well to chase and cover a larger area.
Jul 15, 2007 smittens link
Mystic: But there's still one place that the Itani MUST pass through when they're bringing cargo. After the Sedina/Latos wh, serco can take a number of different paths.
Jul 15, 2007 Aleksey link
Devs' intention is to bring new economy within 2 months. I believe there will be no place for CtC after that?
Jul 15, 2007 MSKanaka link
As someone who never really took CTC seriously as an activity ingame, I have this to say about the "balance" or "imbalance" of the system:

The only real disadvantage the Serco had (up until recently) was not that the Itani voy had one extra monitored/guarded sector on its route (Edras I-2 vs Ukari A-10), but the severe lack of interest in CTC by Serco and Serco-aligned UIT players. People on the Itani side were interested and actively working as a large group on CTC, and just two or three weeks ago yoda and SAF bellied up to the bar (so to speak) and brought back Serco interest in the contest. I can understand the reasonings behind moving the two nation stations out of Edras (by the way, the data on the system when you click on it in the universe map still says those stations are there), but if CTC was unbalanced in the favor of the Itani before (I don't really think it was, have you *seen* how many ion storms are on the direct route from Bractus to Divinia compared to Sedina to Pyronis?) it is immeasurably imbalanced in favor of the Serco now, well beyond any imbalance in the other direction.

As long as Serco are/were interested in CTC, I think the station in Edras I-2 was what maintained the balance for both sides.

Anyway. As I said before, I haven't done CTC seriously in ages (I think the last time I ever CTCed with Miharu was back when the Prom MkII had infiniboost, over a year ago), so I might not be getting everything accurate, but from what I've seen in recent weeks, SAF more than evened the odds for the Serco, it tipped them in their favor, an accomplishment for which I congratulate them on, especially given the weeks of CTC-apathy from the Serco that preceded SAF's reformation.

Just my two cents.
Jul 15, 2007 Ghost link
CtC is going to be replaced Soon(TM).
Aug 02, 2007 EddyHolland link
I agree with MSKanaka (Miharu). The recent changes in Edras I2 have imbalanced it the other way.

I also disbelieve Ghost about the CTC being replaced - it's a rumor, which has yet to be substantiated.

Thirdly, let's not forget that the Serco do CTC in Prometheus ships, which is imbalanced against any opposition. You have to be more skilled as a Valk pilot, than the Prom pilot, to beat it. However, the Valk is useless for CTC, as it has no cargo space. The Prom is ideal for CTC, as it has plenty of cargo space and is very fast and agile (too much so). This factor adds to the serco bias.

In conclusion, the team that fields the larger numbers, with more effort, over greater time, tends to win CTC; but now it is possible for Serco to win even if itani dedicate more time and effort into it.
Aug 02, 2007 Ghost link
No offense, but your third statement is largely false. Valk is not useless for ctc, especially when you have more than one person with you. Nothing is better than a valk for chasing down speedy transports and destroying them. The prom may have the cargo space, but has a much more difficult time catching the transports in the first place. Note that it also has a very difficult time running off with the cargo.

In regards to the second part of this statement, the prom is agile but it is not fast. It has very slow acceleration and a high drain.

And as for the last part, larger numbers will win only as long as the larger numbers are on. What wins CtC regardless of numbers is the team that puts the most time and effort into it. Unfortunately this means that whoever wants to sit on their computer all day and collect cargo will ultimately win.
Aug 03, 2007 Sun Tzu link
CtC is prehistoric. Just compare the behavior of the CtC convoys with that of an escort mission convoy. Replacing those stupid hive bots with a normal convoy would already be a huge improvement.

And, I don't want to offend anyone, but the side that loses at CtC has always whined on the boards.
Aug 03, 2007 softy2 link
lol

I still remember the old serco complaints about the itani station at Edras (now gone) and the fact that the serco voy has to go through B8 and keeps getting in the way of the pie-rats loitering around there.
Aug 03, 2007 JestatisBess link
Sun Tzu: the Itani are currently winning this week by 286cu (at the time of this post).

I agree with Eddy Holland on most of his points though. I never did the math on a Prom but they seem faster and more agile then a ship of that size should be. The prom is a perfect ship for ctc, especially mid week.

Finally, the serco have been doing a great job this week and the last few weeks. They are really determined to win. I'm just glad we have renewed interest in CTC. May the best team win.

If the itani win we win. Theres always next week :)
Aug 03, 2007 Sun Tzu link
Preemptive whining then? =P

Re the Prom, it is easy to confuse models and present them like perfect for CtC. SCP is like Ghost described. It becomes more and more useless as soon as the convoy speed goes up. MkII is fast enough but it is crap when it comes to fighting; against 2 enemies, it's a coffin. MkIII is as agile as a SCP. But its armor is not uber, it is not so fast and it suffers a lot when it carries Xith.
Aug 03, 2007 JestatisBess link
Sun Tzu: You haven't been in game for a while so let me tell you how its going down. Lets say the Itani attack the serco transport. We use valks and Atlas X's the later part of the week. 3 or 4 Itani are up against 4 or 5 serco/UIT pirates in proms. We make the kill get the cargo and immediately die when a prom catches up to us. the prom has a distinct advantage till it gets the Xith.

Who ever has the most players participating will win the week. Which is a good thing, i guess. Right now we are over matched and out numbered. Now we know how the serco have felt.

CTC is fun again even if its a little frustrating. We wanted to get the serco involved and now we did. I'm glad both sides are working hard to win.

(Any Itani reading this we could use your help. Come join us and have a little fun)
Aug 03, 2007 toshiro link
The funny thing is that a single Serco in a Centaur can snatch the cargo from two determined Itani. And the fact remains that the Serco convoy's having to pass through VO's #1 chokepoint is an advantage for the Itani that is compensated by the two routes open to the serco (I used that trick, much to the Itani's dismay).
Aug 03, 2007 yodaofborg link
The fact is, the more people that show interest in CTC the more whine, it _is_ going to be replaced one day so like, whatever.

Oh yah, and sorry for not being about much, my old pc died, and the one i borrowed kinda sucks, so, ehum.

[edit]

Oh yah, the Itani route for voys is shorter, warp from bractus c5 to e2 and record the distance(Then do the same from Sedina L2 and B8). Also, Itani voys that warp into Pelatus can escape to the pel/edras worm hole real fast, where Latos is full o roids, and it takes a while sometimes for the Serco voy to reach the warp distance.

Oh Yah, and like, Itani space is borin?
Aug 03, 2007 softy2 link
Here is the uber CTC machine :

Centaur III with 1 sunflare and 2x conc mines.

Infinite boost, shoot voy (no energy use FTW), grab cargo, drop mines, run.

I used this to grab lots of serco cargo in those days of the uber-Proms. The conc mines' worse effects is to throw the pursuer's infiniteboosting direction.

/me remember fondly blowing Lin's prom into the netherlands with da conc mines.
Aug 03, 2007 csgno1 link
Imballance isn't all bad, it makes each side develop it's own tactics. Matching terrain and ships for each side would make it a bit like a sporting event.

The win will often go to the side that can field more competent CTCers for more hours. The new pilots can almost be ignored while they gain skill.

One suggestion I could make is that there be about half as many convoys. This would let, or should I say force, the rabid CTC pilots to experience some other aspects of the game in the 'between' times.

One tactic I don't like, and I know both sides have done it so don't fret, is having a buddy pirate or some other not-yer-nation type blow up your own transport for you right after launch so that it doesn't have to be defended. It kind of lets the air out of the game for me.

Just my $0.02

--Harpo