I haven't seen much of this personally, but I've been hearing that with the new influx of folk from EVE and Digg, there has been less honor to fighting. It is quite understandable, as from what I know in EVE dying really really sucks. So it seems as though more people will be trying to save their ship rather than stick out a fight, these days.

I don't really know how I feel about this. One side of me is looking forward to the new more realistic VO, where death is a thing to worry about. The other side rebells at this recent change, and demands that we force the generally (cough Sloda) agreed upon code of honor.

So what do you think? Should we teach our new friends not to run? Or should we let the game evolve into something new?

My only worry is that running is a bit too easy. Starting 1000m away from my target, it takes me three or four jumps to catch and kill a centaur when I'm flying a valk. This seems a bit too drastic, although I don't really know how we could make running harder without a significant change (ie, reducing all speeds by a lot), but I think if running is going to become acceptable we should come up with a fix.

This so-called code was not 'agreed upon'.

Never formally, but most pre-influx people seem to understand that running and spamming are bad. That's all I was referring to, tosh

may i ask, whats the agreed upon code of honor?
There seems to be a big fuzz(in general:chat, forums, etc....not just this post) about honor in this game. That seems rather lame.

Is it really all that important? I always follow the basic standards, which are not running and no backrolling...But why is theres so much talking about it. Let players play like they want to play. They are paying for it. Its not fair either if you start arguing with someone because you dont like their style.
In the end, your sense/perception of honor will be confused with what you want. By that i mean that eventually you wont like how the others play and you will call them honerless scum just because they dont play like you want them to play. You might as well order them to type /explode.
And if you dont like to fight them because you think they got no honor, dont fight them at all, instead fight players that have your same sense of honor.

And reducing all speeds by a lot would be completely redundant, given that the results would be the same, only slower. You would be chasing at a lower speed, and the other would be running at a lower speed as well. Same thing...

i agree with every point shadoen makes

smittens said: "Never formally, but most pre-influx people seem to understand that running and spamming are bad. That's all I was referring to, tosh"
That is true.

It'd be interesting to see what happens when more realistic behaviour regarding the persistence in fights would take place, though.

As for swarm spamming, that has an effect on connection performance and should as such be looked upon with contempt. I use swarms when in a centaur, but I take care not to have more than one volley in space at any given time. But, I guess the lag generated is still too great, which is why I had not been using them as of late.

So, allow running (after all, you won), but punish swarm spamming.
I do think that there should be some in-game reward for getting the other side to run, though. The question is, how can that be done (besides in duels)? One could measure the relative speeds of the combatants and the location, as well as orientation in space, and after a certain distance has been exceeded, there would be a server-side decision as to who ran and who didn't.

Edit: Of course, armour and hit count would have to come into it, as well.

That is my own opinion.

there shouldn't be a reward for making your opponent run, well there could be, but it would be like winning Border Skirmish, or something like that, not a stat. if you cant get a kill cause your opponent had time to run, then you dont deserve the kill.

Any form of honor will vary with each individual. Let the new pilots do what they like.

Shadoen, and all, these are just the posts I'm looking for :)

And again, all I meant by "agreed upon code of honor" is running and spamming are bad. Things like ganking and backrolling are more ambiguous (Ganking is FINE!, and backrolling is usually just distance control!), so I guess this probably is the time to do away with all concepts of honorable and dishonorable actions.

That was my stance, as well. However, it seems that a multitude of people feels 'cheated' when they cannot get a kill. I was just trying to think of a way to satisfy them, too.

honor in vo usually keeps fights fair and usually more fun and satisfying. if everyone had no honor then there

i suggest some sort of honor lisence, like the lisences we have now but shows basically whether you want to fight or not. basically,you can file a complaint against a character ingame and it may raise or lower their honor level.

The first element of honor is consent. If you and your opponent have no common understanding or agreement beyond hate, then honor is not really relevant. My references to "Honor" where almost exclusively in reference to consensual combat, or more specifically, dueling. Attempting to apply my comments about honor to non consensual combat would most likely be out of context. Duelist generally know who the honorable duelist are, and if a new player wants to be counted among them, they should take the time to learn the standards of the culture, and introduce themselves properly. I do not recall meeting you in the typical duelist circles Smittens. To what end do you broach this subject?

Hehe, same reason you did Roda.

Spin.

As a new player, I have a question for the OP:
Are you seriously suggesting that someone running away from a ganker in a superior ship is dishonorable? Now, I can't say I care for e-honor in general, but seriously what the christ?

i suggest some sort of honor lisence, like the lisences we have now but shows basically whether you want to fight or not.

Umm. No.

I dont have any problem with Backrolling, Running or Swarms.

If the run i hunt them down.
If the backroll i take my time.
If they swarm i laugh in their face.

Ohnoes! Another Honor thread!!!

oh, no, another useless thread.

even if there is a so called code of honour, that doesn't mean you can't break the code. and that is the answer actually: if you run, the other can consider you're dishonored and that his win. HIS ONLY WIN.

and if you want to continue this discussion, wait until someone sugests that attacking people is dishonorable. oh, wait, i just did. now you can focus on something else.

Ok, so like 5 or 6 players from the goonsquad show, and we get an honour thread? I dunno why people are saying 3000 of em will sub here, cos thats just nonesense.

From what I heard ingame, the ones that are hear want to shoot folk in crap ships, so if lots of them do show, sounds like we will have a B8 full of lil [syn]n00b wanna-be's, hardly a reason for a thread about runners.

Excellent point yoda! If they don't care about the ethics we follow then by all means treat them like a [syn]n00b in combat.

In matter of fact it sounds much more like a weaker unrat with inept dodging skills.

Example: You warp into Sedina B-8, no unrats, no pierats, but 20 goonrats. Ships range from EC-98 to Hornet MkII. Not a PvP badge amoung them. "Easy pickings."

But seriously they don't have to follow the "Honor Code" most of us PvP vets like to use. They can swarm and run all they want. Of course we will get pissed but it just means we can treat them with the same respect as a unrat that can't shut its trap.

To quote what was said in #vrelay.

"You break ethics, then we break you."