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I have been around the game for some time, as Slicer, Wabbit and DaGnat among others. I treat the game as an experiment, both in terms of looking for bugs and to see what people's assumptions are about me as a player.
I know that some people are frustrated by pirates and hunters who kill without what most players consider to be "honor". But this type of behavior is to be expected. Players who get good often suffer from being corrupted by the power of their own ability. Most people don't play as a character, but simply do as they please - as far as their skill will allow.
Most online games have a problem with people's id's running unchecked. Since the game is not real, the consiquences are small. I, for one, am endlessly fascinated by the fact that most people online, whether it be in Vendetta or an anonymous chat room, will be their most base selves. It's rare to see someone trying to be the best person they can be. Maybe because that choice is hard.
This is frustrating, I know, but I would like offer a simple suggestion for the hard working developers, one that I hope might work as a stop gap measure while they prepare a system of adminitration and/or penalty. If a simple, cheap ship were availble that substituted speed for firepower, it would allow new users who do not have ill-intent to outrun those who prey on them. Essentially the fastest ship would be one without weapons.
This presumes that that is something the developers would like to create and that it addresses a real problem. As it is, with a little skill, any ship rated as "very fast" it pretty hard to hit if you dedicate yourself to running. (In fact, Wabbit can keep from getting killed indefinitely if he doesn't fight. It's only when he turns to fight that he gets into trouble)
All of this said, I should point out that there are a good number of very skilled players who often go out of their way to help others. It might seem foolish in the context of a video game to take hope from their example, but nevertheless, I find these individuals to be inspiring.
I know that some people are frustrated by pirates and hunters who kill without what most players consider to be "honor". But this type of behavior is to be expected. Players who get good often suffer from being corrupted by the power of their own ability. Most people don't play as a character, but simply do as they please - as far as their skill will allow.
Most online games have a problem with people's id's running unchecked. Since the game is not real, the consiquences are small. I, for one, am endlessly fascinated by the fact that most people online, whether it be in Vendetta or an anonymous chat room, will be their most base selves. It's rare to see someone trying to be the best person they can be. Maybe because that choice is hard.
This is frustrating, I know, but I would like offer a simple suggestion for the hard working developers, one that I hope might work as a stop gap measure while they prepare a system of adminitration and/or penalty. If a simple, cheap ship were availble that substituted speed for firepower, it would allow new users who do not have ill-intent to outrun those who prey on them. Essentially the fastest ship would be one without weapons.
This presumes that that is something the developers would like to create and that it addresses a real problem. As it is, with a little skill, any ship rated as "very fast" it pretty hard to hit if you dedicate yourself to running. (In fact, Wabbit can keep from getting killed indefinitely if he doesn't fight. It's only when he turns to fight that he gets into trouble)
All of this said, I should point out that there are a good number of very skilled players who often go out of their way to help others. It might seem foolish in the context of a video game to take hope from their example, but nevertheless, I find these individuals to be inspiring.
In the context of your last paragraph.
I can say from personal experience, as DS4 (not Bacix), that helping people is so darned hard! I created the character to act as a universal defender of newbies and traders against pirates and griefers.
Initially, things were going OK. I had DS4, which was blue, and DS5, which was gold. If there was a problem with a blue, DS5 would take care of it, etc.
Unfortunately, some characters took offense at what I was doing. These would mainly be the so-called pirates, griefers, and "[those] who kill without what most players consider to be 'honor.'"
I would help a newbie either with cash, or act as protection through a difficult/dangerous trade route, only to be attacked and killed by someone of his color. It got to the point where it was impossible to do an escort run, as people would be looking for the Defense Ship to kill--not because of who he was, but because of his color.
At this point I changed gears. They weren't newbies, they were unskilled pilots. They weren't traders, they were enemy transport ships. It became more of a "see red or gold, see hostile, kill hostile." It wasn't so much about the cargo, it was just the hostile ship.
Now someone might bring up the fact that n00bs cannot pose any possible threat. However, due to the totally anonymous nature of up to 5 other characters one can create, you can't assume that. A couple days ago I had my ship handed back to me by a "newbie" on gold. He knew the barrel-roll, figure-8, and nose-wiggle. He also knew the triple-gauss.
Bottom line, I assumed that everyone was hostile.
Now, analysis. The second example, you might say, is one of a griefer (= one who kills a player repeatedly). You have to view it in the context of three nations, which are battling each other. This works, and the first example will _not_ work, until a team 0 is implemented. Then, the traders can move to a truly "neutral" team (which really isn't a team at all), the pirates can be autonomous, and the "Defense Ships"/mercenaries can operate without fear of attack based on a mere color.
However, most players will operate on a mixture of the two extremes. The only thing to debate, is what mixture is appropriate?
I can say from personal experience, as DS4 (not Bacix), that helping people is so darned hard! I created the character to act as a universal defender of newbies and traders against pirates and griefers.
Initially, things were going OK. I had DS4, which was blue, and DS5, which was gold. If there was a problem with a blue, DS5 would take care of it, etc.
Unfortunately, some characters took offense at what I was doing. These would mainly be the so-called pirates, griefers, and "[those] who kill without what most players consider to be 'honor.'"
I would help a newbie either with cash, or act as protection through a difficult/dangerous trade route, only to be attacked and killed by someone of his color. It got to the point where it was impossible to do an escort run, as people would be looking for the Defense Ship to kill--not because of who he was, but because of his color.
At this point I changed gears. They weren't newbies, they were unskilled pilots. They weren't traders, they were enemy transport ships. It became more of a "see red or gold, see hostile, kill hostile." It wasn't so much about the cargo, it was just the hostile ship.
Now someone might bring up the fact that n00bs cannot pose any possible threat. However, due to the totally anonymous nature of up to 5 other characters one can create, you can't assume that. A couple days ago I had my ship handed back to me by a "newbie" on gold. He knew the barrel-roll, figure-8, and nose-wiggle. He also knew the triple-gauss.
Bottom line, I assumed that everyone was hostile.
Now, analysis. The second example, you might say, is one of a griefer (= one who kills a player repeatedly). You have to view it in the context of three nations, which are battling each other. This works, and the first example will _not_ work, until a team 0 is implemented. Then, the traders can move to a truly "neutral" team (which really isn't a team at all), the pirates can be autonomous, and the "Defense Ships"/mercenaries can operate without fear of attack based on a mere color.
However, most players will operate on a mixture of the two extremes. The only thing to debate, is what mixture is appropriate?
De Ja Vu
(if someone could tell me how to spell that, i would be grateful)
Remember Iondot? I remember you.
=)
I remember when you were DaGnat! That was fun.
When i play now i be myself, i really am usually nice. I don't play that much anymore because of where the community is right now. Oh well, maybe the community will get better, i hope it does.
But trust me, if you do try to be a good person, log off when someone starts annoying you, trust me.
(if someone could tell me how to spell that, i would be grateful)
Remember Iondot? I remember you.
=)
I remember when you were DaGnat! That was fun.
When i play now i be myself, i really am usually nice. I don't play that much anymore because of where the community is right now. Oh well, maybe the community will get better, i hope it does.
But trust me, if you do try to be a good person, log off when someone starts annoying you, trust me.
I have to say that I feel the pain: I've been there. I like to test, and I like to explore, and I like to trade. I've wanted to spend hours blissfully exploring and checking out different graphics settings, looking at various asteroids and skyboxes... but it often is annoyingly difficult to do this and stay alive at the same time.
I've always thought in terms of the final-goal, where a "always-can-flee" ship has no place. In the long run, I believe that many factors (including role playing, ship specialization, and skill) should dictate your ability to get into and out of bad situations.
But for the test, maybe it isn't such a bad idea to have a pure exploration ship that can avoid combat 90% of the time...? A ship that has an overall speed increase over every other ship but has NO weapon ports, and very limited cargo if any? It would allow us to log on and play around without actually playing the game if that makes any sense. It could be useful for testing... and could eventually be removed.
For those who will complain about "it being hard enough to chase down people already"... the thought is to have a ship specifically so that people can explore the vendetta universe without having to worry about being chased down, for the sole purpose of testing the engine.
Any thoughts?
I've always thought in terms of the final-goal, where a "always-can-flee" ship has no place. In the long run, I believe that many factors (including role playing, ship specialization, and skill) should dictate your ability to get into and out of bad situations.
But for the test, maybe it isn't such a bad idea to have a pure exploration ship that can avoid combat 90% of the time...? A ship that has an overall speed increase over every other ship but has NO weapon ports, and very limited cargo if any? It would allow us to log on and play around without actually playing the game if that makes any sense. It could be useful for testing... and could eventually be removed.
For those who will complain about "it being hard enough to chase down people already"... the thought is to have a ship specifically so that people can explore the vendetta universe without having to worry about being chased down, for the sole purpose of testing the engine.
Any thoughts?
I would play more. but, as sui said there has been a lot of foul play. And in recent dates i have seen a lot of ships going after only traders and leaving all the cargo. :First off its not good to be doing a cargo run if you dont know how to defend your self, second you should always travel with a buddy.:
/me feels like a gradeschool teacher talking about bathroom buddies and the whatnot.
People need to learn to controll them selves from just going off and killing people. I think there should be a system if the player has a score lower than 2500 you cant kill them if your score is 3000+ unless there bounty is 200+, then they would be free game. This would cut back some n00b killing i would think. but there is obviously a flaw in it some where.
And i think there should be a truly 'neutral' team that SirCamps pointed out... then the "DS's" would be living a lot longer.
/me feels like a gradeschool teacher talking about bathroom buddies and the whatnot.
People need to learn to controll them selves from just going off and killing people. I think there should be a system if the player has a score lower than 2500 you cant kill them if your score is 3000+ unless there bounty is 200+, then they would be free game. This would cut back some n00b killing i would think. but there is obviously a flaw in it some where.
And i think there should be a truly 'neutral' team that SirCamps pointed out... then the "DS's" would be living a lot longer.
I had the same thought earlier today of having a test only 'photographer' ship so I could get some good screen shots that was weaponless and cargoless but nearly massless and largely invulnerable. It seems like a good idea but I wonder how long it would be before someone found a way to abuse it or else half the people in the game were always using it. I've got really annoyed at Vendetta as chat room lately and hope the chat features get replaced shortly.
I don't have much sympathy for those that say that they don't want to play because they keep dying. Death carries no significant penalty at present, and you can make enough money to keep yourself supplied in ships for months in just a few hours. How much money do you need anyway? I've never had more than 500,000 or so, and only once been short on cash (and only because I hadn't done any trading in more than a week). If you are this frustrated now I can only think you've never played a MMORPG and will never enjoy doing so. Heck, on wonders how these people ever managed to complete a game like Diablo - saving the game every 2 minutes?
I don't have much sympathy for those that say that they don't want to play because they keep dying. Death carries no significant penalty at present, and you can make enough money to keep yourself supplied in ships for months in just a few hours. How much money do you need anyway? I've never had more than 500,000 or so, and only once been short on cash (and only because I hadn't done any trading in more than a week). If you are this frustrated now I can only think you've never played a MMORPG and will never enjoy doing so. Heck, on wonders how these people ever managed to complete a game like Diablo - saving the game every 2 minutes?
As I've said, I normally don't think the devs should put much effort into "interim" fixes (things that wont be in the final game). But I'm also getting sick of people being chased away by bad behavior. These people could have valuable insight to the game, and if the test turns into an elite clique, the final game doesn't stand much of a chance.
We can't change human nature, so maybe we should put a short-term fix in, only until better systems (again: role playing, ship balance, quests/teamwork, etc) can be implemented.
But putting total invulnerability in at any level is a BAD idea.
Think about it: wise-acre creates a new character with score of '0'... he/she flies into your home sector and causes grief like nobody's business. Even in a weaponless ship this could get annoying, like a fly buzzing around, but then at least it would be harmless.
As far as the much requested 'neutral team'... we already have that. It's called gold. For some reason, nobody plays it like it's neutral, but that's not the fault of the game. If there was a true neutral team, you'ds still see players named "neutral killer red friendly" and the likes.
We can't change human nature, so maybe we should put a short-term fix in, only until better systems (again: role playing, ship balance, quests/teamwork, etc) can be implemented.
But putting total invulnerability in at any level is a BAD idea.
Think about it: wise-acre creates a new character with score of '0'... he/she flies into your home sector and causes grief like nobody's business. Even in a weaponless ship this could get annoying, like a fly buzzing around, but then at least it would be harmless.
As far as the much requested 'neutral team'... we already have that. It's called gold. For some reason, nobody plays it like it's neutral, but that's not the fault of the game. If there was a true neutral team, you'ds still see players named "neutral killer red friendly" and the likes.
dude.. you can still cap golds flag, gold can still cap yours... (if not a gold) and gold has a score. a 'truely neutral' team would be a team where you play with out score, with out bounty. You wouldnt be able to kill unless provoked. And the money would goto your other accounts...wait thats dumb.
Edit: I am preatty stoned. so uh. dont listen to me.
Edit: I am preatty stoned. so uh. dont listen to me.
Sorry.. thinking long term again where there will be no flag. I personally don't cap, so I forget it's even there :-)
A neutral team that can't kill unless provoked...? Putting limits/rules like this into gameplay are not good for the game overall. I'd rather see a way to encourage/discourage behavior in the game universe rather than applying limitations and rules. Again, examples include a reputation system, more ship types and specialties, more balanced ships and weapons, and more incentive for team play/quests... etc.
The gold team *could* be truly neutral, if these systems were present.
If there was a truly invulnerable* and separate team, it would only be exploited for reasons of espionage, annoyance, or something else that someone more creative than I am will think up.
Again, I think that if people want to truely be neutral, they should be allowed to role-play that way regardless of what team they are on. One way to do this is to create more specialized ship types that can promote defensive and exploratory gameplay while retaining balance. e.g., the "no weapons very fast ship" in other threads, and the may gizmo-realted threads that show how diffierent ship gizmos could allow for different types of play.
* nobody specifically asked for this, but its only a matter of time before someone does.
A neutral team that can't kill unless provoked...? Putting limits/rules like this into gameplay are not good for the game overall. I'd rather see a way to encourage/discourage behavior in the game universe rather than applying limitations and rules. Again, examples include a reputation system, more ship types and specialties, more balanced ships and weapons, and more incentive for team play/quests... etc.
The gold team *could* be truly neutral, if these systems were present.
If there was a truly invulnerable* and separate team, it would only be exploited for reasons of espionage, annoyance, or something else that someone more creative than I am will think up.
Again, I think that if people want to truely be neutral, they should be allowed to role-play that way regardless of what team they are on. One way to do this is to create more specialized ship types that can promote defensive and exploratory gameplay while retaining balance. e.g., the "no weapons very fast ship" in other threads, and the may gizmo-realted threads that show how diffierent ship gizmos could allow for different types of play.
* nobody specifically asked for this, but its only a matter of time before someone does.
When I refer to "team 0," I am talkin about the very real and present [NPC] team. They take damage from each other, and what not.
Maybe we should take this back to 2 teams + neutral (notice I did not say Neutral). 3/6 can become the "hub of trade" by offering good prices on goods, yet lack a flag. The "gold/yellow" color disappears, and friendly fire is turned ON.
That, is not necessarily a team, but a collection of independents.
Maybe we should take this back to 2 teams + neutral (notice I did not say Neutral). 3/6 can become the "hub of trade" by offering good prices on goods, yet lack a flag. The "gold/yellow" color disappears, and friendly fire is turned ON.
That, is not necessarily a team, but a collection of independents.
SirCamps... that is one of the BEST f'ing ideas i have ever heard. I love it more than i would my own child.
NO FRIENDLY FIRE on the teams.
and the colors are temporary I believe. from what it is now, you can make reds the neutrals.
and the colors are temporary I believe. from what it is now, you can make reds the neutrals.
I was also thinking some thing similiar.
I got a clan that dont have a colour we got ppl from all colours what i actually want is a nstand alone collection of inviduals.
This type of thinking means creating nations on the fly but were edging close to 20 accounts with a TFV char
i reckon what im trunin to say it that i want a "clan space" where members of my team can just go and hang without other colours coming up and bothering them.
almost a home sector, you could say, reserved for members of the TFV.
Dibbler
I got a clan that dont have a colour we got ppl from all colours what i actually want is a nstand alone collection of inviduals.
This type of thinking means creating nations on the fly but were edging close to 20 accounts with a TFV char
i reckon what im trunin to say it that i want a "clan space" where members of my team can just go and hang without other colours coming up and bothering them.
almost a home sector, you could say, reserved for members of the TFV.
Dibbler
Sector 9 is my private hangout :D
The problem with these weaponless ships is that theyd not only have to be invulnerable, weaponless and fast, but also intangeble to friendly and enemy targets as well as warheads (so as to prevent drone-nudging or flying into nukes/missiles, etc.)
The problem with these weaponless ships is that theyd not only have to be invulnerable, weaponless and fast, but also intangeble to friendly and enemy targets as well as warheads (so as to prevent drone-nudging or flying into nukes/missiles, etc.)
Essentially observers?
Make 'em invisible, too.
Make 'em invisible, too.
Two things I want to correct after reading some of these posts...
1. The NPCs (or "robot" nation) cannot hurt each other. They behave just like any other nation. They can however be changed to attack each other, but that's not the case right now.
2. Friendly fire ON means teammates CAN take damage. I believe someone made a post somewhere where they said they wanted friendly fire off, when they meant to say that they wanted it on.
I'd also like to question why the EC-88 is an inferior ship if it's in the best interest of everyone to protect the community's newbies. Originally I thought it would be a great idea to simply increase the hull integrity of the "bus." But then Wabbit pointed out that some speed advantage would probably be more beneficial for those who can't fight very well (including newbies). I agree.
But it can't be a weaponless ship, since newbies may want to bot in addition to trading. So what they could do is lock all the components of the ship. Prevent the player from unequipping the free plasma cannon and prevent the player from unequipping the "special" fast engine. That way the new newbie ship won't be too powerful or exploitable.
1. The NPCs (or "robot" nation) cannot hurt each other. They behave just like any other nation. They can however be changed to attack each other, but that's not the case right now.
2. Friendly fire ON means teammates CAN take damage. I believe someone made a post somewhere where they said they wanted friendly fire off, when they meant to say that they wanted it on.
I'd also like to question why the EC-88 is an inferior ship if it's in the best interest of everyone to protect the community's newbies. Originally I thought it would be a great idea to simply increase the hull integrity of the "bus." But then Wabbit pointed out that some speed advantage would probably be more beneficial for those who can't fight very well (including newbies). I agree.
But it can't be a weaponless ship, since newbies may want to bot in addition to trading. So what they could do is lock all the components of the ship. Prevent the player from unequipping the free plasma cannon and prevent the player from unequipping the "special" fast engine. That way the new newbie ship won't be too powerful or exploitable.
To iondot: First off, I hate you as "DaGnat," you just plain annoy me. That's why I gimp-shot you and then /ignore you. As it currently stands, I think think there is any plan to add weight into the equation that is Vendetta. Tho it is really really needed, I don't think it's going to happen. You can carry 12 sunflares and 4 avalons and still get up to 200 just as fast as a ship completely empty. In space, you can go as fast as any other ship, just that acceration is greatly affected. Every time I brought this up, everyone says that it only effects acceration. "Only," is hardly the proper term for this.
I have seen too many "veteran" players posing as n00bs to take any risks.... If a see anyone on another nation in the same sector, i assume they are hostile, and i assume they are experienced... that way i won't get caught out... (isn't that right PingPong)...
I win!!!!
;-)
I win!!!!
;-)
excepts when an entire group of the so called newbies comes after you :D
/me envisions 20 noobs hitting on icarus with their free busses (must be a nice sight :D)
cheers
/me envisions 20 noobs hitting on icarus with their free busses (must be a nice sight :D)
cheers
Bring it on... Suckers!