From earlier post by incarnate (thanks for replying) in a locked thread it was revealed that stockpiling is a bad thing, and station limits would be imposed soon(tm?).

This causes me great concern as guild ore stockpiles could be severely damaged by doing that. Could you please give at least one week notice and implement some sort of a large capacity guild hold before introducing station storage limits?

Thanks

it would be nice, too, if we could discuss the order of limit we're talking about here.

How about no? The Devs fucked over some of us via lack of notice, so fairness dictates that notice of such changes be abolished across the board. No more notice of economic changes, ever. Just to keep things even.

Also, guilds are not special and cannot have extra storage space beyond their members' individual allotments. You have ores piled up? So does everyone else. Start hauling and dumping, bitches.

Quit being so bad-natured about this, Lecter. This is a legitimate concern. Why wouldn't a guild have a large collective storage facility? I'm all for that, and also I'm all for the possibility of individual players being able to buy more storage space. There's no problem with the theory of stockpiling, the problem is that the amounts being stored were simply not realistic.

Here's my idea for station storage limits. I'm leaving out numbers, because they're meaningless until they've been tested and tweaked; I'll leave that to the devs. Every player should have a free small storage space only at stations owned by the player's government. (My idea also works into future player/guild owned stations.) Players would be able to rent additional space for a reasonable fee at those same government owned stations. Hopefully in the future, total space at a station (and therefore rental rates) would be limited by the actual size of the station. At stations in grey space, owned by other governments (limited of course by faction standing) and stations owned by other players and guilds, you would be able to rent storage space at a price based on supply/demand, and who owns the station. Station owners may even offer a guild discount.

Guilds do not get special consideration in the purchase of items/functions, and should not in the future. If there's an option for players and guilds to buy extra storage, so be it. But the original suggestion called for a massive guild common by virtue of the guild's existence. No freebies for guilds.

All of Prof Chaos' ideas had already been discussed previously, though I'm too lazy to go look up the thread in the Suggestions forums. And yes, the way it seems is going it go is free space + rentable space + Guild rentable space, at least in the existing (i.e. non-Guild) stations. Of course, when it hit,s no one's going to have extra space rented, so be prepared to lose some cargo if you have hoarded too much.

As for the Devs telling us when and how, it's their prerogative, as usual, not some whiner's.

Look, it has always been our policy to tell people about stuff prior to it having a widespread impact. The item pricing snafu was poorly prepared, had unforseen consequences, and Ray has apologized for it.. it does not represent our policy, our record, or the norm when it comes to handling things like this (as most can attest). Lighten up, Lecter, let's move on.

I brought up the station storage issue during the meeting today, and talked to Ray a bit more about getting things ready to implement that. One of the stipulations of that conversation was that we would heavily test the new mechanisms, and give people two weeks notice before dropping anything into place in the universe.

In addition, as currently implemented (and this may change, but still.. for now) the system does not remove anyone's inventory that's over the limit. They simply cannot add anything new to that station until the quantity is reduced. Now, that's the simple version, and by the time we get to production implementation it may be more complex (storage fees and the like), but for what it's worth.. we aren't going to be wiping people's inventories without notice or anything of that nature.

Guilds are not going to get anything for free that single users cannot have. I'm philisophically against that from a gameplay perspective. That said, if people can purchase storage space, guilds should be able to as well.. and potentially have the charges be tithed from the guild base, and also allow the guild-inventory to be accessed by guild members. I don't think rolling optional guild-specific features into the framework has any negative impact on non-guild players. I also can't promise that any guild-specific features will be in the first-generation implementation.. they may be added down the road.

Anyway, the biggest thing I have to do first is define the cubic unit space utilized by the various shiptypes, and figure out the ballpark limitations. Once there's more design specifics on what we're looking at doing, I'll post a link to the specs (probably to Suggestions) for feedback. Until then.. don't stress about it too much :).

Good point Inc... I was imagining how all those virtual "boxes" fit into each station. Some are larger, some are smaller.

Thank you Incarnate. That all makes sense to me, take your time implementing these things. I would much rather wait longer for a more polished product, than get something lame because of impatience. You guys are doing a great job.

Yay, thanks for replying inc! I don't think recurring charges would fit in well anywhere in this game, because that would imply the player having to constantly come back and earn more to pay upkeep, so buying space >> renting space.

Storage limits look bypassable.

If you have 10 moths in a station that means 1200 extra cu of cargo space at that station.

The way to stop this would be to limit the number of ships that a player can have at one station, but that might cause problems for those of us that stockpile ships because they aren't readily available in our nations space. (like the Tung 'taur)

Any thoughts, Inc?

Factoring in commerce widgets (not weapons) when counting the trade goods in a station, is that possible? That would solve it in an instant.

As for stockpiling ships: This isn't a very realistic thing, either. Since this game universe does not allow magic as such, bags of holding have not yet been implemented. Stations would sooner or later run out of hangar space.

I would be in favor of station storage limits (or storage fees) for trade goods as well as for ships (and I would be affected as well, seeing that I like the SkyCommand Prometheus).

Station limits are going to be KEY for any new dynamic economy. They're one of the aspects of SCARCITY. When demand for storage space goes up, there is less and less storage space available, and the price to store things will go up, which will prompt the station to "build" more storage space.

Whether the additional space will be "shown" on the outside is a matter for the devs, but for now let's assume that the stations are "infinite boxes" that can be added to without changing their dimensions externally.

Having the storage space and/or docking space for each station fluctuate with economic conditions will be part of the dynamic economy. Perhaps you'd LIKE to store your goods in Sedina D-14, but they're charging 5 credits per cu per game-week because everyone likes that station. But - oooh - Sedina K-13 is offering storage for 0.5 credits per cu per game-week. Bonus! Of course you'll store your goods with K-13!

Before, in one of those other threads that talked about stations and such, I was thinking that the space you require for docking would be separate from the space that you require for storage. So, you "could" keep 120 cu of goods stuck in your Behemoth and save some bucks. But, as soon as you offloaded it, you'd need to purchase storage at that station.

Charging for storage only makes economic sense. Making the price fluctuate based on supply and demand makes it realistic. Just like anything else, more scarcity and more demand means that it's worth more credits.

However, yes, it would be ideal if everyone who plays got a 2-week notice, via the E-Mail they supplied with their account. Perhaps this would be a good time for a "Vendetta Newsletter" ? (Also would be a good way to weed out those bad emails - make note of the bouncebacks and contact those peeps ingame to provide a new email address.)

[Fine. Self Edited due to extreme allergic reaction. But - just for the Good Doctor: Mrfff mruffff mruaffff mrf mrreefffffeefff...]

Quick reply, station limits will encompass all types of items. So, you'll have a fixed amount of space, which can be used as "hangar" space, trade item storage, whatever. That's why I have to define the cubic units used to store given shiptypes (and, obviously, they'll use more cu of space than they can carry as cargo). So stockpiling ships, addons or trade items will all fall under the same rule system, and use the same "space". How it's used is up to you.

Only inactive ships will be in storage, your currently active ship will not utilize any storage space (that's in the free temporary-docking area).

ooc

please tone down lecter. you're taking this way too seriously. you have more money than most of us in vo (heck, you probably have more than our entirely guild combined) so there really is no point in all of this.

there is no need for personal jabs.

(Very rude post prior to upper case's deleted.)

And yet that to which it replied remains unedited. Way to go, Whistler!

[Edit of me own] uc, this has zero to do with what I have, to all of which I'm entitled btw, and everything to do with what I spent hours upon hours earning. Don't talk to me about what I have, it's irrelevant. [/edit of me own]

Charging for storage.......
So say i dont log ingame for a month or two.
The day i actually log to play i find out im broke. Storage fees ate all my money because i have lot of ships and weapons stashed all around universe. My government doesnt pay me for my military services so money is deducted from my private account.
My ships and weapons are repossessed by greedy dockmasters and station managers.
Way to go.
I migth as well delete my account since i do not intend to start from scratch again and do boring trading or mining just so i can pay storage fees.

Holy crap, its contagious. Why is everyone freaking out over something that doesn't even sound like its made it into the serious planning stages"? Inc just said he was going to open it up for discussion when the time draws nearer. I seriously doubt they would impliment something that was that severe Boj. Probably more like it would eat away from your account while you were active.

Option A: How about Bojan, you just sell all your stuff if you're planning to be gone for 2 months?

Option B: Your money is on deposit in some bank or whatnot, and you gain interest on it, say 2% per year or so. If you have enough credits, your banking interest will sustain your packrat storage needs indefinitely. Which brings up a good point - banking!

I think storage fees are a good idea. But, nothing that would deplete all of a character's funds. I dunno, for an actual number, like 0.25 credits per cu per week or something. I mean, even with my meager fundage, I would have to have 100,000 cu of "stuff" stored around the galaxy, and not play for 10 years to run out of money.