Forums » General
Didn't one of the devs previously warn against stockpiling?
this was posted as a bug in the bug forums almost a month ago, under 'ridiculous profits on trade routes'. 2 people called it an exploit, and a guide speculated that the condition might not last very long.
why is it 'natural' when the game makes it suddenly possible for you to get a billion credits. but its 'unnatural' when the game takes this possiblity away?
why is it 'natural' when the game makes it suddenly possible for you to get a billion credits. but its 'unnatural' when the game takes this possiblity away?
(1) Reporting something as a "bug" does not make it so. You reporting something as a bug makes it especially likely that it is, in fact, an intended part of the universe.
(2) I know you're a troll, but I'll gently point it out again since you appear to have missed or convienenly avoided the point: in VO, like in the real world but in a more cut and dried manner, there are some things that are risks. Examples include [TGFT] finding a trade route and crashing it, pirates booming you for your cargo or the Devs announcing that, as of next update, your favorite trade junk will have a different value assigned to it. Because these risks are managable, can be taken into account when planning your VO existance and how to spend it, they are acceptable. Even if they cannot be avoided, they can at least be planned against.
As usual, of course, your analogy sucks. What actually happened here doesn't fall into the catagory of risks inherent in trading in VO. At least not if the Devs expect rational people to invest time playing the game. Arbitrary, ex post adjustments such as this negatively reinforce investing time in VO--if the rules have no meaning, you cannot rely on them and your in-game actions are pointless. Why waste your time?
[Nice EDIT, ananzi... you figure out your first attempt was some weak bullshit, even for you?]
(2) I know you're a troll, but I'll gently point it out again since you appear to have missed or convienenly avoided the point: in VO, like in the real world but in a more cut and dried manner, there are some things that are risks. Examples include [TGFT] finding a trade route and crashing it, pirates booming you for your cargo or the Devs announcing that, as of next update, your favorite trade junk will have a different value assigned to it. Because these risks are managable, can be taken into account when planning your VO existance and how to spend it, they are acceptable. Even if they cannot be avoided, they can at least be planned against.
As usual, of course, your analogy sucks. What actually happened here doesn't fall into the catagory of risks inherent in trading in VO. At least not if the Devs expect rational people to invest time playing the game. Arbitrary, ex post adjustments such as this negatively reinforce investing time in VO--if the rules have no meaning, you cannot rely on them and your in-game actions are pointless. Why waste your time?
[Nice EDIT, ananzi... you figure out your first attempt was some weak bullshit, even for you?]
Natural is the "is it a bug" issue.
Unnatural has nothing to do with the "can it be taken out" and everything to do with then "how was it taken out."
Unnatural has nothing to do with the "can it be taken out" and everything to do with then "how was it taken out."
Ok, I'm sorry. I should have warned everyone that I was going to change the max prices. I didn't expect the prices to be instantly cut, but instead expected them to drop right after someone sold that type of item. However, assuming you'll get X amount when you sell something is not a guaranteed thing in VO. Stockpiling is a risk and you could either make money or lose money. Who's to say someone else actually sold stuff to the station right before you did and drop the prices before you were able to sell your stockpile? The same conclusion results.
there, done. thank you for your apology ray.
i am content with your explanation and your honesty.
i am content with your explanation and your honesty.
/me puts on his Voice of Reason hat.
This was an unnexpected adjustment made a few days after the update. So I can easily see how people lost profits and even investments here. I remember months ago hearing about a limitation in hold space at stations and knew better to leave a stockpile of goods or ore sitting for an update. However, I don't think I would have expected it a few days after an update. I think I would have been caught in the same problem as Tumble and Lecter if I had the time to devote to another big trade run.
Yes, we did take risks in trading like this. Any noob could dock and sell a wraith full of the goods and crash the price (Yup, it happened to me.)Or a pirate could blow up your moth and make you change your route for while (thanks Jolly.) But, at least you can suck that up and find another place to take it. That's not an option now, and stock piles of goods now take that much more time to find a fraction of profits. Trading like this wasn't easy and consumed huge amounts of time and attention. The profits made are still pale in compaison credits made during the BP bug that the devs took months to tame down.
Now my thoughts are that this was not a bug, but something that needed more attention looking at in hind sight. But like all balancing acts here in VO, I think the balancing went a little too far. All theese high priced good now don't give enough profit to bother trading them. I think the profit margins were pretty close to what they should have been, but the good didn't cost enough. There should be a scale for highest profit margins available based on the cost of the goods, not a cap on profits. Small goods like "Ship Paints" should be able to produce 400% margin becasue they only 22c to buy. But for these high priced goods need to have about .5% to 5% or even 10% profit margin and make them so expensive that someone who just started couldn't be possible to trade. Please, enough balancing and start scaling items, ships, and missions for what a MMO should be. I know you want to keep this a twich based game, but that doesn't mean everything has to be equal and balance. A 500c trade good should not give the same profits as a 7000c trade good. Yes, there should be lower profit margin on the 7000c good but it should be worth more in the end. That's the point of economy, and I know it's a tough thing to figure out, but a lot of people do it on a day to day basis. (eg: if you buy a $3 pocket knife, the seller makes $2.50 on the sale. If you but a $30,000 car, the dealership makes $1,500 to $2,000. huge difference in profit margins, but both exaples are worth while to the invester.)
I think the cap profit on goods is the wrong way to look at it for fixing this problem.
P.S. it took me too long to type this so i didn't see ray's post first.
This was an unnexpected adjustment made a few days after the update. So I can easily see how people lost profits and even investments here. I remember months ago hearing about a limitation in hold space at stations and knew better to leave a stockpile of goods or ore sitting for an update. However, I don't think I would have expected it a few days after an update. I think I would have been caught in the same problem as Tumble and Lecter if I had the time to devote to another big trade run.
Yes, we did take risks in trading like this. Any noob could dock and sell a wraith full of the goods and crash the price (Yup, it happened to me.)Or a pirate could blow up your moth and make you change your route for while (thanks Jolly.) But, at least you can suck that up and find another place to take it. That's not an option now, and stock piles of goods now take that much more time to find a fraction of profits. Trading like this wasn't easy and consumed huge amounts of time and attention. The profits made are still pale in compaison credits made during the BP bug that the devs took months to tame down.
Now my thoughts are that this was not a bug, but something that needed more attention looking at in hind sight. But like all balancing acts here in VO, I think the balancing went a little too far. All theese high priced good now don't give enough profit to bother trading them. I think the profit margins were pretty close to what they should have been, but the good didn't cost enough. There should be a scale for highest profit margins available based on the cost of the goods, not a cap on profits. Small goods like "Ship Paints" should be able to produce 400% margin becasue they only 22c to buy. But for these high priced goods need to have about .5% to 5% or even 10% profit margin and make them so expensive that someone who just started couldn't be possible to trade. Please, enough balancing and start scaling items, ships, and missions for what a MMO should be. I know you want to keep this a twich based game, but that doesn't mean everything has to be equal and balance. A 500c trade good should not give the same profits as a 7000c trade good. Yes, there should be lower profit margin on the 7000c good but it should be worth more in the end. That's the point of economy, and I know it's a tough thing to figure out, but a lot of people do it on a day to day basis. (eg: if you buy a $3 pocket knife, the seller makes $2.50 on the sale. If you but a $30,000 car, the dealership makes $1,500 to $2,000. huge difference in profit margins, but both exaples are worth while to the invester.)
I think the cap profit on goods is the wrong way to look at it for fixing this problem.
P.S. it took me too long to type this so i didn't see ray's post first.
For the gazillions of items stockpiled, and hours spent stockpiling them, and the fact that they're now worth only a handfull more than what I gave for them, I have but one comment:
What great and awesome fun I had while stockpiling!
That's what matters to me.
What great and awesome fun I had while stockpiling!
That's what matters to me.
Hm. Glad I have all my assets as liquid CASH and not some silly stockpile of LuxGoods in Odia. Hehe.
Now if I can just find the mattress that I put the money in...
Now if I can just find the mattress that I put the money in...
Mattresses were made obsolete in the next update, because it will have been too much effort to make sure they're properly killed and dried.
Damn. I think I left my mattress in the Irradiated Section of Pelatus Bunker. Oh well.
Anyway, I can't be too unhappy about the current situation, since I almost never stockpile anything. BUT - I can understand Lecterino and tumble being almighty-pissed about it. They're like pack-rats, squirrelling goods away. Evil pack-rats. With lasers.
Be thankful you guys didn't get hit with the storage fees that "might" be implemented. THAT would have warranted some screaming.
Anyway, I can't be too unhappy about the current situation, since I almost never stockpile anything. BUT - I can understand Lecterino and tumble being almighty-pissed about it. They're like pack-rats, squirrelling goods away. Evil pack-rats. With lasers.
Be thankful you guys didn't get hit with the storage fees that "might" be implemented. THAT would have warranted some screaming.
I though your assets were liquid GOLD tequila, unless CLM confiscated the rest when you went into hiding?
Ok, since we seem to have covered the subject and are now headed well off-topic, I'm going to go ahead and lock the thread.