I really like the new pirate unbots, I really do, but they get away with stuff players are smashed for doing. Apparently when they get paid enough, they stop bothering to ask for money and just attack everyone. Fine, that's what they did before, except now they follow you everywhere you go. If you visit a corvus station, they will attack you as soon as you exit, and the SF won't come out. If you shoot back, the SF booms you. Not only that, but they do it in groups, so I leave a corvus station and 2 or 3 unbots shoot at me. IF I get away, they keep following me. So what you have is a group of BOTS greifing the hell out of you until you log in frustration. Now Im a big mean pirate, and as I said before, I shouldn't be upstaged by unbots, and certainly not a constant victim of them. Their messages are constant, they mess up your tab complete if you're trying to have an actual conversation with a real player, and they can station kill you with impunity. Is a fix for this coming soon?

I second that.

were where you when this all happened? I find it odd that the bots would go were ever you where going. The sf where the ones that would let the unbots go but when you where fighting back you would get killed by the sf :( and then if you escaped the bots would follow you were ever you went and killed you. were the hell did they get this idea!? If i where you I would pack swarms from now on so no matter were you are you can the unbots and sf that where tormenting you. :D

@ tumble: I agree. As I've always said, the computer players cheat because, well, they run the game. The only thing I find frustrating is that they know EXACTLY where you go even if you jump around.

@ mdaniel: ZOMG, I knew it! You're a big bad pirate who doesn't want to be upstaged! o_o!

@ Mecha: Uhhh... I can barely read that... >_>; BUt I like the "carry swarms" advice.

are we to believe that there are actually pilots in these ships?

if so, then why would the pilot be concidered unaligned, yet there be a corvus mission. or two for that matter.

and the fact that they let your cargo that you jettison just disappear, waste.

there are some real problems with these bots and they need some tweaking. i recommend taking them out of the game until the following is corrected. or their faults are just going to be exploited by the players.

-PERSONALITY: these bots sound stupid. it's funny when you first see it, but after the third bot it's tired. humans can get away with this, but not bots. just have them tell us in plain english, what we are to do.

-ALIGNMENT: these ratbots are Corvus. they fly corvus ships, ther are two corvus missions for them. just make it so.

-DEMANDS: are you really serious? it wants me to pay $10173 credits to "survive"? the pirate players in this game have come to a concensus to what is a reasonable amount to shell out. $50K.
i assume that you wanted to make these pirates less greedy, so you tried lower amounts. just make it static... $20K, $30K even... these weird numbers are just too much.

-RESPAWNING: upon cleaning out a sector of five ratbots, go heal; cause when you come back there will be 6 of them that magically got there in the 30 seconds you were gone.

-SPAMBOT: WTF is this guy's magical ability and where can i get it? a pirate in a hog with an AGT and UNLIMITED ROCKETS! i'm sorry, but if this is going to exist, it's gonna get on everyone's last nerve and kill the experience we call VO. or give an unlimited rocket launcher to everyone.

-N3 FARMING: so what IS the faction standing required to purchase N3's from corvus? cause no one i've talked to knows. and being that we are supposed to assume that these things have a pilot, that would allow me to believe that N3's are purchasable from the same location that one would purchase the corvus vulturius. since this is impossible; stop putting it as there weapon. we went from lawgun farming (making SG's kill themselves) to N3 farming in less than a day.

-CLAIRVOYANCE: i love the idea of a bot to battle. but if i cant enter a sector, without even seeing space (ie. loading screen), and have a bot demand money from me. upon taking control of my ship again, the bot is still out of targetting range, yet i have less than 20 seconds to comply. if i cant target him, the same should apply to him. and knowing where we jump to even if they are out of sector? NO. WRONG. TRY AGAIN.

-JELLYFISH: why do i have to make chase if the bots come after me first? these spineless bastards demand money from me, then after getting a shit-kicking, some turn face and run. causing me to get more frustrasted with these things. you want them to talk big? get that out of their battle tactics.

-LEAVING GREY-SPACE: these things should NOT floow you into nation space. somehow the SG's protecting these WH's turn a blind eye when you are on the run. if the bots are going to have some intelligence, please have them turn around for their own safety when they reach the edge of grey. it would be the smart thing to do on their behalf. and the SG's could get off their asses to assist you since you are a +998 with their nation!

-STUPIDITY: (my guildmates arent gonna like this...) ***SERIOUS ISSUE*** wanna convoy past these things without being bothered? take a liberation mission offered by corvus. they wont even bother you. fly past them in a moth full of samo, and you'll make it home safely. there are two ways to fix his problem.

1. get rid of the liberation mission. (easy way, and a bad idea. keep the mission to have more content IN this game.)

or

2. make opposing pirate faction. you cant be friends with both of them at the same time.

*and the fact that they let your cargo that you jettison just disappear, waste.*

Nah, the pirates control the space cows see? SO like, we don't need to pick up no stinkin cargoes, well, unless we need the cash fast mind, which somehow, I dont think Corvus do! Maybe they should send out Moths every now n again to clean up cargoes in the sectors though, that would maybe be fun.

They are a bit dumb though, and the suckers followed me into Azek, one interesting thing though, was when the stikeforce (eventually) came out to get rid of me (tee hee) they ran.

The devs have already commented multiple times on the NFZ/SF issue, and the consensus is that fixing it will not be a trivial task as it (the bug) lies deep within old non-deliverator code that has been around since release in 2004.

Here are a few "explanations" for the issue that I've heard over the past few days that I don't think work well:

1) The SF are non-Deliverator, and don't attack the NPCs because the NPCs are Deliverator.
Anyone remember the old trader atlases? If you were in Serco or Itani space you would see trader Atlases of the opposing nation flying freely in the other's space without being hampered by SF, even in station sectors.

2) The SF don't attack NPCs because the SF are NPCs themselves and there's some sort of "brotherly love" or "anti-player conspiracy".
Heh. No. The SF probably don't attack NPCs because they're designed (read: programmed) to keep players from griefing other players, which probably involves removing other NPCs from the target list.

So, to sum it up... no, a fix is not coming very very soon. I'd give it a week, maybe two. Fixing this could break a LOT of other things, and it will take a while before a desirable effect is reached.

-JELLYFISH: why do i have to make chase if the bots come after me first? these spineless bastards demand money from me, then after getting a shit-kicking, some turn face and run.

Sounds par for the course, actually. ;)

(But yes, everything else is damn annoying. Particularly the whole SF issue. Why can't any bots set off SFs without a dev specifically coding it in? :\ )

drdoak007: I agree with most of your post; however, I disagree on a few points. First, DEMANDS - I think rounding to the nearest 100c or 1000c would be good because I hope that eventually the demands are based on the target ship. Second, JELLYFISH - the are mean pirates, not suicidal maniacs; they should run when they are losing, though they should also leave you alone in the future (or gank the heck out of you) if they previously ran from you). Finally, STUPIDITY - do not take away the liberation mission or make any factions either-or; Corvus needs traders too, traders who take booty to market and bring home fine luxuries. I would like to see an option (like +999 Corvus standing?) to allow these traders to operate without the cheaty-seeming way of taking the liberation mission without intending to liberate anything.

LC: The demands already are based on the ship... the ship and its cargo capacity, actually.

Sweet, so a simple rounding function on the demands would fix that...

Yeah. I suggested to momerath (ingame yesterday when all he was doing was fixing the pirates) that for values from 0c to 10k that they round to the nearest 100c and above that to the nearest 1k.

Doak: AMEN(insert ridiculous amount of exclamation points here)

PA needed a 6-man strike force and three hours to attain keeping one Odia wormhole clear for ten minutes. Ten. In the process we lost ships, patience, and probably sanity. We don't have much sanity in the first place.

We were keeping the wormholes clear (or trying to) in order to allow friendly pilots to get through unhindered in their haulers. The fact that these things respawn so quickly and follow you everywhere is insane. The unbots are breaking more conduct rules than you can shake a blaster at - and they'll follow you into nation space, camp your station (UIT in my case [and I've quite a high standing with them]) and gank you the second you undock. Yes, I know this was said already, it's in old code and hard to fix. I understand that. What I don't understand is why this isn't worked on and fixed BEFORE (sorry i don't know how to use italics instead) you introduce things like this. New content? Great! New content that griefs you and makes you not want to play? Not so great. Fix the problems first. It's that simple of a concept. We can deal a bit longer with not having textiles changed to Textiles if it means the game experience remains realistic in terms of what problems you encounter. The SFs/SGs don't attack the unbots? It's an old problem? Then fix it. I understand game devvin' is hard, and I'm sure many of my fellow gamers understand this too. But as cold as this sounds (and yes, I feel bad saying this knowing how frustrated momerath is in particular): If we're getting griefed by the game instead of by the player, and I'm hearing guildmates alone left and right screaming over Ventrilo about how crappy this all is, then there is obviously a major problem that needs to be solved here - before much of the playerbase goes insane and leaves greyspace or (i hope not) the game. I'm sure many of us here would be happy to help fix this if need be, but the fact remains that it needs to be fixed, especially if it's been a problem for so long. This has gotten so bad that after merely one night of dealing with it, I long for the experience of being ransomed by a player pirate with nothing else in sight. Back then it was wonderful. Sure it might have brought dread, anger, or in my case an insane fanatic 'omgletsseeifhecancatchmewheeee' feeling, but at least they didn't follow you for hours and magically respawn into the sector at full health 30 seconds after you kill them, while spamming infinite rockets and AGT rounds into you for the next hour.

In closing, I ask from the bottom of my heart (and literally my wallet) that yall PLEASE give our player pirates back all of their now lost business. I want Splash to chase me again without being overtaken by a horde of griefing unbots! Think of the children!

EDIT: I forgot to mention this, but momerath: you had a great idea before ingame. Making it so the unbots simply don't follow you into station sectors would partly fix things, but it still won't make the player pirates' jobs much easier.

How hard would the following list be? :
1. Stop unbots (hive and rats) from entering station sectors (or having SG/SF attack all unbots in station sectors).
2. Increase respawn time / decrease respawn rate to about 1/min.
3. Force NPCs to play by the same rules as player ships (i.e. energy and ammo restrictions).

OK- Clearly there are some problems with the new pirates. I'm working to correct them as fast as I can, as anyone who was on yesterday can attest.

Some of the things that Doak and others are complaining about are bugs that I don't know the source of yet, some are things that I intend to change in the near future (probably today), and some are just misunderstandings, I think.

SF/SG:
Yes, it is dumb that the SF go after you and not an npc that picked a fight with you. However, this should *only* be happening in Corvus station sectors as the bots are told not to attack when they wait in other station sectors. If they *are* attacking in non-corvus space, it's a bug, and I'd like to hear about it. I haven't so far. Whether we should make them not attack in *any* station sector, or perhaps just call off the chase as soon as you go into a station sector (kinda lame IMHO), is still up in the air, and I'm listening to your feedback.

Psychic Following:
As I said in the Test the New Pirates thread, I intend to make the following behavior limited to what a player can do (the 1000m limit, etc). Right now the following behavior is like this: if i'm not in the sector with my target, go to that sector. Deliverator doesn't have info about bot positions (and shouldnt), so this isn't a trivial fix. We do have a plan though, and I expect we'll be able to have it implemented by next Friday.

Demand Amounts:
They *are* multiples of 100, and they scale with cargo space. I personally find it easier to quickly type a number that doesnt have a bunch of zeros in it, but I'm open to rounding it to the thousands if that makes a difference to people. I made the initial amounts low compared to player-pirates, largely because if the psychic bots annoyed people, it wouldn't hurt much to pay them off. It seems that a lot of the people complaining the loudest (looks at quirc) won't pay on *principle*. I hadn't forseen this ;)

Respawning/Clearing:
I don't understand all the reports of them respawning quickly- there must be some sort of bug. All the npc pirates share one production queue (like a factory at one station). It takes 2 minutes to make a replacement, and they're only made one at a time. It always works that way for me in testing, so I don't know what's going on with that. Furthermore, the pirates keep a running average of their expenses/hour, and when it goes above a threshold (which will need adjusting- I think it's way too high right now), they stop spawning altogether for 2 hours! Also, there should never be more than 15 in a sector, but that is definitely broken, and will be the first thing I try to fix today.

Pirate-talk/Personality:
I wrote all the pirate dialog for fun. I expect it all will be rewritten when John has some time. That being said, I've had more praise and thanks about it than any other pirate features. People either love it or hate it I guess.

Alignment:
Corvus is a corporation, not a pirate guild. They don't *officially* support or condone such behavior. The npc pirates will remain unaligned, and I really don't see the problem with that- for one thing, it's the only easy way (right now) to have them show up as red on peoples' radars.

Spamming:
I don't know why the TDs have unlimited ammo, but Andy is working on making bots generally more like player characters (real inventories, for one). At some point, we'll definitely fix this, but I can't say when because I don't really know what's involved.

Picking up Liberated Cargo:
Also mentioned in various places, pirates in moths who's job it is to collect the dropped cargo are coming very soon. This was the primary impetus for the work I mentioned Andy doing. We already have them picking up crates on the test server, but it needs testing and a couple more features. These pirate-moths will be taking the "Acquisition" mission, which will also be available to players.

Taking the Liberation Mission for a Free Pass:
Yes, this is kinda lame, but there isn't really any way around it in the short term. At least, since you can currently only take one mission at a time, you can't take an escort or trade mission while using the liberation protection. I could do a few things to possibly mitigate this problem such as only allowing players flying low-cargo-space ships to take the mission, or kicking you out of the mission if your kill-rate goes below some threshold. A proper faction system will provide better means for dealing with exploits like this.

Bots Running:
This could happen sometimes if a particular bot is reassigned to do something else, but that should be rare; apart from that I don't know why they would run, so if it happens to someone while I'm around, give me a shout so I can check it out.

Bot Weapons/Where'd they get the N3s:
Yes, it's dumb that they have stuff that can't be bought at corvus stations. When the real economy is ready, they will be built (in far greater variety) from available components. In other words, when Corvus runs out of weapon X, they will no longer carry it.

I think that addresses all the major complaints. *Please* read this whole message before adding to the thread.

~Michael

ok momerath, one thing to add (other than thanks again for all the hard work)

whats up with the unbots that just decide they dont need cash anymore? They just hail a threat, fly up , and start shooting...

IMO while it's ok for some ships to be agressive like this it doesnt make sense that ALL of the pirates in the sector would then follow thier lead. Especially since 'follow' is the active word if you kill the one that flies up and just attacks you.

If the bots didn't have the psychic behavior of knowing where you went then it wouldnt matter as much, but you cant even flee.

also for reference the pay-pirate alias i posted yesterday isn't working because %lastprivate% doesn't work right inside a prompt command, it forgets to add the (") marks around the name of the person who msg-ed you.

those piratas rock!As long as I payed my fees I never got attacked anywhere! :P

the only thing I'd change is that they don't chase into nation space.

oh yeah and it seems like if you pick up cargo it's enough to drop only one unit to make them happy again.

You could replace it with %target% for now, afaik, that works as advertised.

Spellcast: I think what you're running into is that if you don't pay the first and then go into another guarded sector (or the same one again), an additional pursuer is added (which threatens/taunts you). You can still pay any of them and they should lay off. Doesn't this seem like reasonable behavior?

Spuck: Yea, I'm going to put the grey-only boundary in today. As for them being satisfied with one CU, that's odd; it's coded to require you to drop as much as you picked up (though not necessarily the same crates), and I thought that was working fine.

Piracy has been around as long as there have been boats, from the ancient greeks in the Aegan Sea, the barbary corsairs of Africa, piracy in asia and such.
Why then, are these "piebots" (as we have started calling them) speaking in stereotypical 16th century carribean buccaneer lingo?

It's overplayed and sounds ridiculous. Why don't you realize there's more to piracy than the Carribean Cliche?