Greetings,

I had hoped to have a complete, and much improved, replacement for the unbots this week. I wound up adding a few extra features, though; some were necessary to prevent exploit, and some were just for fun. So I didn't get all the bugs ironed out in time to release last night, but I'll be working at least a little today and tomorrow. Early next week is my new target.

In the meantime, I've made the spawning of unbots 75% less frequent; hopefully that will please more people than it disappoints. Just keep in mind that the new npcs are not unaligned, and will accept cash or cargo in exchange for not hunting you down. :)

Yay, way to go momerath42. :)

So there are new unbots in the producation server?

I'm sorry; I thought that was clear. I haven't released the new pirates; I'm shooting for early this week. In the meantime, to reduce frustration, I cut the current unbot production by 75%.

You pushover.
>:|

Thanks Momerath. I developed a major case of the hips last night, which is nearly a case of the ass, when it took me four tries to get through Odia B-12 in a Vultarus. 23 ratbots, all of whom have no restrictions on boosting and firing at the same time is a bit much. I'm not the best pilot in the world, but if I can't make it in the fastest ship in the game, then we can assume that no trader is going to make it, either.

~D.
"Nigel"

Only if we assume that all the other traders in the game are also too stupid to realize that you can turbo in the direction that isn't toward the wormhole for a while, jump out, jump back in in a place where the bots are no longer present and proceed to the wormhole at their own pace, while the slightly sad "pirates" fly their slow ass back to where they think they should be.

Damn, I'm gonna miss those ninja unbots.

I guess they could have been slightly broken in which case they are being taken out until the new replacements arrive later this week.

Thanks genka. I love being called stupid when I'm not aware of a specific tactic that makes the game easier. I guess that means YOU'RE stupid because you don't understand partical physics? Can we both be stupid because quantum theory escapes us, or are you just acting childish?

Don't know why you felt insult was called for, but it wasn't.

~D.
"Nigel"

I think that sometimes, when you're playing a videogame, rather than piss and moan about the challenges that arise as a natural part of the gameplay, it's smarter to try and find ways around those challenges.
Doing the first, however, I think is plenty reason to call someone stupid.

its like people always say...

adapt or die! muhahahahaha!!

Your opinion has been duly disregarded. If you think a video game is a good thing to call someone stupid over, then one can only shudder when one thinks about your own mental processes.

I don't find frustration fun. Sorry, but I'm just that way. I find dozens of ratbots that fly and attack without the limitations of my own craft to be frustrating to face. I have never asked you to feel the same way; I simply stated my OWN point of view. You'll note that I did it without throwing rather childish perjoratives into the fray. That's because we grown ups can have a civilized conversation without calling people names.

Now, Momerath started this thread to invite comment on the ratbots. You decided to pervert it into a name calling event. Politely, I ask you to piss off.

I think that, sometimes, when you've wasted far too much time learning the ins and outs of a video game rather than having a life, you'll learn little tactics and tricks that aren't apparent to the average person holding two jobs and going to school full time who doesn't quite have the time to "play" that you do. While that might make you feel superior to them, however briefly, it's smarter to remember that the messages you read on your screen are coming from a human being, and maybe offer them just a little respect. Piping off with insults about their perceived stupidity, I think, is plenty of reason for you yourself to be thought stupid.

I'm done with this. This isn't what this thread is for, and if you'll excuse me, job number two calls.

~D.
"Nigel"

Klabbath:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

& Genka's own contribution to the downfall of the wide world of wikipedia knowlege:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genka

Now edumecate yerself before you get hooketh some further bits.

I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll storm off in an empty rage because some guy on the entrawebs called me stupid!

I'm done with this!

/me pulls out his telescoping airtraffic control sticks and slowly guides this behemoth of a topic back on... er... topic I guess.

I guess I could be in the minority, but I for one never minded getting my ass kicked by super bots... Vendetta has had them in one form or another throughout most of its history (e.g. the defbots with frigate guns, the furies, the original leviathan which was well nigh impossible to kill, and now the ratbots) I see it as a unique challenge.

Anyone ever play old videogames like Mario 3? That game had some truly diabolically difficult levels, but you felt like a pimp after successfully ducking through a hundred fireballs and clearing two dozen long jumps across collapsing platforms. You could get to almost any level in the game within a half hour or so, but there was something there for everyone.

If the AI can't keep up with human pilots, then sometimes superbots are a necessity in order to create places in Vendetta that are the equivalent of mario three world eight, if you know what I mean.

I guess I've always believed the devs know what they are doing, so if momerath spawned the unbots 75% less frequently for the time being, I'm sure there's a good reason for it. There's no indication that this was as a result of pressure from a vocal few in the community at all... so I suggest we all wait and see what happens before flipping out, or spend some time actually testing out the new parameters, and then flipping out with an educated opinion at least.

Nigel, you sound frustrated because you want to get into gray space and are being overwhelmed by unbots. Something to consider is that genka, while he may have troll blood, often gives some valid insight within his posts. I would agree with genka that changing your entry vector is a way to use the NPC behavior to your advantage. Gavan and Phaserlight are also pointing out that many games have levels with bosses that seem impossible..

AI does not mean that they have the brains of a human. While they have some concept of aggression, these bots are always going to be on the dimwitted side. In video games to compensate the unbots or monsters are given more of something. The hive bots are given more armor, a different engine, special weapon, or more mass to make them "easier" or "harder". Players have always found chinks in the NPC behaviors that eventually allow the pilot to overcome and defeat the NPC.

This is VO, a twitch game, therefore there isn't one ship/weapon/battery combination that will defeat the unbots. There isn't one technique or key stroke combination that always kill the bots. I was playing with the new NPC pirates on the test server and one followed me quite far. I think the bot was not limited by the if you warp more than 1000m away they don't know where you went. Now I could be ranting and raving about how the AI isn't limited to the same laws but instead I am rethinking how I interact with the NPC pirates.


In terms of the NPC pirates in gray space I am assuming that Coruvs is the Pirate Faction. I wonder if the NPC pirates could mimic a bee hive. These pirates would want to protect and patrol the WHs to Odia aggressively. WHs that are in systems further away from odia be given progressively less aggressive NPCs. Personally I find the game too easy to get around in, I would like to have more mystery because I cannot easily get into an system to explore. 23 pirates at the Odia B-13 WH is fine to me because it means you have to be pretty determined, skilled, or clever to get through. I tend to use determined and clever to sneak by those NPCs.

Quote some dev guy: *but grey space is supposed to be dangerous!* - anyways, back on topic, I cant wait to see the new pirates ingame, cos actually interacting with the AI will be a big change to the way we have done it _ever_. I mean the only way to interact with a bot till now really has been shoot it, or dont shoot it. I like to shoot stuff.

The new interaction features sound wonderful, but I certainly hope that once the update rolls out, the new unbots will be just as difficult as they were before. I wouldn't mind if they were harder.

Phaserlight describes my feelings on the subject well. And if need be for in-canon explanations, I suppose that anything human-piloted (or A.I.-controlled) that moves around in gray space would know its way around a neural ship interface, to say the very least.

I'm still not much of a combat pilot even after more than a year of VO, but I took down two of them unbots today at the same time. When they come in twice the numbers and thrice the skill, I will flee, and I will feel the adrenaline. That's what I'm hoping for. When every trip through grey means challenges I'm not at all certain I will win, I can finally begin to doubt my decision to abandon UIT space in favour of uncertain and so far undiscovered merits... ;-)

I was just on the test server a little while ago, and I saw a few problems:

- If you're in a trade ship and don't have cargo, the bots won't take your money and attack you anyway.
- If they follow you to a station sector (non-corvus) the local SF and station guards don't attack. BAD. Very very bad. Station sectors should be safer than that.