Much Adue about Nothing.

its lame to be better than your opponent by using tactics that they havent figured out how to respond to? wow you ninnies are really stupid. If you cant beat them, join them.

imo if you are stupid enough to keep fighting someone who you know is going to do something you are not going to like, then you have no right to complain about it because, well, you can do something about it and you arent.

Testify!

Can I get an "A-MEN"?!?

Well, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that most of you didn't read all of my post. Also since Demonen's first post seems to sum up the main issue the rest of you had with this, I'll respond to it...

"Dealing with Running:
- Follow! Keep within the range needed to see where the player jumps to, and give chase. Form a posse and go looking for the mrotheffukecr!"

Even in a valk against, say, a hog, it is tough to follow a runner and kill them, unless you get a good jump, they don't know how to turbo, or they have very little health.

"- Rejoice. The idiot left you in peace. Get on with the game."

As I said in my first post a bunch of times, while the game is this small and the two hot spots are so far apart, this is incredibly difficult. And in the instances where there are other people to play with, these assholes will often interfere, causing the classic "Alright, private sector." "Where?" "D11" "Okay" ... "Wait, where?" "/say_channel D11" "****!" "Crap. They're here!" situation

"Dealing with backrolling:
- Carry swarms, just in case"

In most cases, I prefer not to add swarms to VO, only because I know how much I hate it. So for anyone who dislikes swarms, this is not really a viable option.

"Dealing with spamming:
...run and backroll?"

Again, adding more of these tactics to the game is not my idea for how to fix it.

"- Respawn and get back as fast as possible. (S)he is out of rockets now, and should be an easy target."

Well, judging by the fact that swarmers will almost NEVER stay around after getting one kill, your only chance to finish them is if they come to the station you're homed at for reloading. While this is somewhat common in Sedina, it can still be difficult to finish them off, so this doesn't really work.

"As for going elsewhere, the game will go Mass Marketing soon(tm) enough, and when it does, there's plenty of stuff to do elsewhere."

Well, right, and again as I said in my first post, once this happens then this'll be a perfect way to deal with these assholes. However, right NOW, I'm paying $10/month, and right NOW the only way to deal with this is to return the favor (again which I try to avoid except in extreme circumstances) or to log off. Neither of these options are especially appealing...

"Judging from your post, smittens, you seem to allways be alone ingame? If two people jump me, I inform the convoy leader and (s)he dispatches the appropriate ammount of escorts.

Dude, join a guild."

I assume you're a new player? For the reccord, I am Commander of Itan, one of the most active guilds ingame. Also, seeing as you either haven't been around that long, or are some returning vet, I think you should play a bit more and face these frusturating situations I've outlined, before you start posting about ways to deal with them that ^^^ don't work. Also, having more people doesn't make your enemy change their ways...

Rogue and Miharu, I can't think of the last time I saw you ingame and fighting, or just fighting (respectively). I expect that the people who aren't outraged by this thread are the ones who've dealt with these issues, as can be seen by Bojan's not jackass response (which I appreciate). I'm sure if the bunch of people who I fight with and also hate people using these tactics posted, the responses would be a lot less "OMG Smittens stop bitching"

I don't PvP often, but I do do it. Just ask the other members of Sigma, and various other players. Hell, I even found time to duel someone who had been trying to catch me for over a MONTH just to do so.

Also, VO is not only about PvP. If it were, trading and mining wouldn't exist. A good portion of the features in the game now wouldn't exist. Get that information to stay in the sieve that is your memory, because people have said it over and over again and you still do not seem to grasp it. Even the pirates understand that. You want pure PvP, go play Halo or Quake. Don't play VO and then complain when you can't defeat other players just because they use tactics you never learned to defeat.

I always start out my duels by telling my opponent that I have a tendency to backroll, and that I want them to let me know if I'm getting too far away, or am over-doing it.

Incarnate has also made his opinion clear on this issue--as long as it is allowed within the game mechanics but not designed to cause a player with a fair share of common sense grief, it's fine. You clearly are being caused "grief" by something that other players have gotten over and learned how to fight. Use your common sense, if you have any left. Only a few players still actually have issues with these tactics in proportions that you do.

And you know what? I agree with you... on some points. Running is lame. Spamming is lame. Backrolling, despite the fact that I often do it myself, is lame. I'll openly admit it. But I don't care that they're "lame"--they're valid tactics and there are ways to combat them. VO is a game, and there is a war going on in VO; and all is fair in war. Get over it.

And I'll repeat the original sentiment: stop cluttering the boards with these "Dev Opinion" threads. If the devs have an opinion and they want to share it, they will. They don't need you to specifically ask for it or invoke their names. They have work to do, and this kind of thread takes time away from that.

Roguelazer: "Can I get a dev opinion on "Lame" Threads, started by "Lame" people to complain about not being able to kill enough newbies?"

I'd give you a Guide opinion of this thread but...I'm not THAT lame.

Miharu, somewhere in your desperate desire to attack me, you've missed my point, although you just strengthened my argument.

You don't PvP that much. Which is fine. But then you can't consider yourself an expert on what is annoying, and what isn't.

And yes, there are other things to do besides PvP, but how many PvPers will say "Gee wiz, I think I'll take a break from this activity that pushes my reflexes to the limit and go trade!" Unless of course they're running low on $$. Now please don't think I'm insulting all the work you guys are doing on the economy. It's why I didn't originally mention this, for fear of my meaning being taken baddly. It's AWESOME that you guys are making this new economy and everything, but as good as it becomes, it's still bringing items from one place to another. Now this is captivating for some people, and maybe with future changes it'll be amazing for everyone, but right now there are PvPers who just want to fight.

"Incarnate has also made his opinion clear on this issue--as long as it is allowed within the game mechanics but not designed to cause a player with a fair share of common sense grief, it's fine."

While the ability to perform these tactics without causing grief may be ingame, and the intention of these things, the fact is that the majority of the time these mechanics are abused to cause grief, either intentionally (for griefing) or unintentionally (when you're fighting a new player who doesn't know any better but to spam the **** out of you and get out). The idea of this thread was to get the Dev's opinion on this fact, along with some constructive discussion from the community. But I guess that was too much to hope for. Next time I'll just send an email and further detract from the bond this community shares.

"Only a few players still actually have issues with these tactics in proportions that you do."

Not true, again something that you excusably don't know because of your lack of interrest in PvP. This thread only exists because I am of course somewhat more loudmouthed than many other players, but that doesn't mean it doesn't piss off other PvPers. In all the time I've been playing, if I've run across a spammer/runner/backroller that doesn't lead to a "****ING ______" on group/guild/sector/channel chat, I would be VERY surprised. I am NOT the only one pissed off by this, at all.

"But I don't care that they're 'lame'"

For the reccord, I just used the word "lame" to describe these tactics because I was tired and couldn't think of any other way. The point of the thread was to actually determine the lame-ity of these tactics, which is why it was put in quotes. But, Rogue, thanks for missing that little bit and taking the advantage to poke at me.

"...there is a war going on in VO; and all is fair in war. Get over it."

If you'd step out of your RP bubble for a second, you'd notice, as you stated words before, that VO is a game. People play games to have FUN, and when these tactics destroy or lessen this fun, it lessens the game.

"If the devs have an opinion and they want to share it, they will. They don't need you to specifically ask for it or invoke their names. They have work to do, and this kind of thread takes time away from that."

In your desire to rally folks against me, you miss something that I'm almost positive you've mentioned during VO's history (at least almost everyone else has said it at one point). One of the things that makes VO so great is that the Devs are not lifeless names, but they will actually read and respond to emails/posts. I'm sure I'm not the only one who prefers them spending a few minutes a day to read about what the community is doing rather than spending a slight amount of time more on the next feature.

FINALLY

I'd like to acknowledge that in no point in my posts have I personally attacked you (intentionally. If you interpret something as an insult please point it out so I can remove it). With comments like "Use your common sense, if you have any left." you're only further detracting from the point of this thread. Also I'll be happy to remove this note to maintain the flow of this topic if you would kindly remember to...be nice.

Well, smittens. I think the main problem is you used too many words to defend your position and you defended against some comments that were not worth the attention paid... However, I do appreciate that the responses have been correctly spelled and punctuated with appropriate grammar. I will now sum up this thread as follows:

These are what some people consider "lame" tactics (insert possible examples of lame tactics); what is going to be the official status of which tactics are lame and which will be allowable? [insert long babble about whether possible examples were more or less possibly lame].

I PvP enough to know the difference between honorable and dishonorable tactics. I know the difference between annoying and not-annoying because I have had each of those three tactics used on me, multiple times.

And yet, as I said, Incarnate HAS made his opinion clear. Multiple times. That non-consensual PvP is how VO has worked, does work, and will work. That in itself means anything goes. It's up to YOU to decide if you want to fight those fights. If you are fighting with someone and they use the tactic against you, use it back. Get the point across. The game's called Vendetta for a reason.

You may not be the only person pissed off about it, but you're the only one pissed off enough to start a forum thread that will do one thing and one thing only: start a flamewar.

I love it when the devs look at conversations and state what they're thinking, but it's more gratifying when they do it randomly and without being asked. You don't NEED to ask them to look at the thread by putting this big "ZOMG DEVS OPINION WANTED" on the topic header. They look through each and every thread, at their own pace. You don't NEED to call their attention to these threads because believe me, they see everything.

You want a list of insults? Sure.

One: There's a REASON I used the ™, and I seriously doubt Holdan would care. Hey, I'll ask him:
11:37:16 PM Miharu: Hey, do you honestly care if I use the "¬_¬™" emote on the forums, or is it just smittens Being A Dick?
11:37:35 PM Holdan: Nope, go ahead
11:37:39 PM Miharu: I could easily change it to © Holdan :P
11:37:39 PM Holdan: you can use Dick™ too

Two: You insult us both by declaring a truce and then smashing it to pieces every chance you get.

Three: And related posts within that thread regarding nullification of charges. What the fuck were you trying to do attempting to nullifying the strongest evidence that the prosecution had against him?

You're a Dick™, Smittens, and you better figure it out quick, because the rest of us have, and we don't feel like putting up with it anymore.

Okay, go ahead and lock this thread, as obviously there is no reasoning with Miharu when she's in this state...

/me wanders over to the Itan boards where his posts get respectful, constructive responses, although I'm sure if Leber gets in a post before this is locked, he'll claim otherwise...

Every tactic has a counter-tactic. Some are less effective than others, but still effective. As I think Shape said before, patience wins in VO. The only thing that gets you killed is being too agressive. But you won't get any kills if you're too defensive (unless your opponent is rediculously over-agressive). Thus is VO. There are plenty of "lame" tactics out there. But there are counter-tactics to all of them.

There's always two people needed for an argument, smittens.

Anyone here ever been in a fistfight? A bare-knuckles, knock-down, drag-out fight?
If you are attacked, you do what you need to do to survive. No Marquis of Queensbury
rules, you do what is necessary to win or to get the f**k out. Anyone here been in a
war? WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afganistan, Iraq etc etc? We got our asses kicked (for the most part) in Vietnam. I know, I was there in 1967-68. How did they win? By using
what was then considered "unconventional tactics." These days, some of those tactics
would be called "terrorism." But forget about labels. What the hell do you want? A
fight that is pre-arranged, with a judge, at a pre-arranged location with witnesses (an
audience) present? (This option might be called "consentual PVP") Or do you want what we have now? Personally, I prefer consentual PVP, I have other priorities than PKs.
But if you want open combat, then stop being "LAME" and learn to FIGHT. And Shut the FUCK up !!!!

Smittens, she's just acting like this cuz' I'm back.

I make her head feel woozy :P

Yet another bitchfest between Smitten/BG and Miharu...

It is unfortunate that another thread must be locked...

[Locked]
Reasons:
- Topic discussed already.
- Topic reached no where.
- Flames beginning.
- Requested.